Forums: Climbing Information: Regional Discussions:
Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs.
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Regional Discussions

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


guyzo


May 3, 2010, 4:15 PM
Post #1 of 32 (4312 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 26, 2003
Posts: 37

Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs.  (North_America: United_States: California: Los_Angeles_County: Echo_Cliffs: Grotto__The_)
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

This is just a note to Gentle Ben, and his wife. And to Eric Wolfe and his GF skippy.

All others should take a second and think about new roots and squeeze jobs.

Good job, your quest for new roots and Fame have brought our beloved Echo Cliffs to the attention of the NPS.

Your mass scrubbing of the moss on this choss, the destruction of plant life and the sawing off of tree limbs has moved the NPS to erase your climbs, Mystic River and Bunnyman.

What you did to the place is down right ugly and serves no, zero, purpose to climbers.

I spoke with the MAN this am and the removal had nothing to do with litter. The roots were removed because of the wholesale destruction of plants.

For the first time in my life I agree with the NPS. They did the correct thing IMHO.

So maybe next time you want to do a new root you may wish to consider some things. Things like "will this be a good root?"
or "am I destroying something of value".

You know Ben, it's very poor style to put in generic bolted climbs every 3 feet. Climbs that have no character, just a climb, just like the one right next to it.

We are very lucky to have good rangers in the Santa Monica Mts. They are climbers, they know all about the place, they took out your gear.

This time we didn't get a knee jerk reaction to just close the place down. Next time we (the climbing community) might not be so fortunate.

Guy Keesee


(This post was edited by guyzo on May 3, 2010, 4:22 PM)


redlude97


May 3, 2010, 4:25 PM
Post #2 of 32 (4293 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 988

Re: [guyzo] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (6 ratings)  
Can't Post

route.


patmay81


May 3, 2010, 5:01 PM
Post #3 of 32 (4240 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 3, 2006
Posts: 1081

Re: [guyzo] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

guyzo wrote:
The roots were removed because of the wholesale destruction of plants.
wouldn't this cause the destruction of plants? I'd say put the roots back and hope they grow into something.


moose_droppings


May 3, 2010, 5:28 PM
Post #4 of 32 (4212 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3349

Re: [guyzo] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

guyzo wrote:
This is just a note to Gentle Ben, and his wife. And to Eric Wolfe and his GF skippy.

All others should take a second and think about new roots and squeeze jobs.

Good job, your quest for new roots and Fame have brought our beloved Echo Cliffs to the attention of the NPS.

Your mass scrubbing of the moss on this choss, the destruction of plant life and the sawing off of tree limbs has moved the NPS to erase your climbs, Mystic River and Bunnyman.

What you did to the place is down right ugly and serves no, zero, purpose to climbers.

I spoke with the MAN this am and the removal had nothing to do with litter. The roots were removed because of the wholesale destruction of plants.

For the first time in my life I agree with the NPS. They did the correct thing IMHO.

So maybe next time you want to do a new root you may wish to consider some things. Things like "will this be a good root?"
or "am I destroying something of value".

You know Ben, it's very poor style to put in generic bolted climbs every 3 feet. Climbs that have no character, just a climb, just like the one right next to it.

We are very lucky to have good rangers in the Santa Monica Mts. They are climbers, they know all about the place, they took out your gear.

This time we didn't get a knee jerk reaction to just close the place down. Next time we (the climbing community) might not be so fortunate.

Guy Keesee


sidepull


May 3, 2010, 5:35 PM
Post #5 of 32 (4201 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 11, 2001
Posts: 2334

Re: [redlude97] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

redlude97 wrote:
route.

I was wondering if there was some sort of e e cummings styled deeper meaning to using "root" or it was just interweb troll-dom.


jt512


May 3, 2010, 6:20 PM
Post #6 of 32 (4153 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21892

Re: [guyzo] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

guyzo wrote:
This is just a note to Gentle Ben, and his wife. And to Eric Wolfe and his GF skippy.

All others should take a second and think about new roots and squeeze jobs.

Good job, your quest for new roots and Fame have brought our beloved Echo Cliffs to the attention of the NPS.

Your mass scrubbing of the moss on this choss, the destruction of plant life and the sawing off of tree limbs has moved the NPS to erase your climbs, Mystic River and Bunnyman.

What you did to the place is down right ugly and serves no, zero, purpose to climbers.

I spoke with the MAN this am and the removal had nothing to do with litter. The roots were removed because of the wholesale destruction of plants.

For the first time in my life I agree with the NPS. They did the correct thing IMHO.

So maybe next time you want to do a new root you may wish to consider some things. Things like "will this be a good root?"
or "am I destroying something of value".

You know Ben, it's very poor style to put in generic bolted climbs every 3 feet. Climbs that have no character, just a climb, just like the one right next to it.

We are very lucky to have good rangers in the Santa Monica Mts. They are climbers, they know all about the place, they took out your gear.

This time we didn't get a knee jerk reaction to just close the place down. Next time we (the climbing community) might not be so fortunate.

Guy Keesee

I was worried that something like this was going to happen. The area was once closed due to excessive noise. We're lucky to have it. The area most certainly does not need a plethora of generic 5.9s. We've lost Williamson. We can't afford to lose another major sport climbing destination. Let's stop the bolting there already.

Which routes were taken out?

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on May 3, 2010, 6:32 PM)


foodgeek


May 3, 2010, 7:47 PM
Post #7 of 32 (4104 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 27, 2009
Posts: 36

Re: [jt512] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
guyzo wrote:
...the destruction of plant life and the sawing off of tree limbs has moved the NPS to erase your climbs, Mystic River and Bunnyman...
...Which routes were taken out?

Jay

I'm going to guess Mystic River and Bunnyman.


guyzo


May 4, 2010, 8:04 AM
Post #8 of 32 (3996 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 26, 2003
Posts: 37

Re: [redlude97] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

Route = a climb

Root = male anatomy. As in: Look at my "root"- isn't it nice?

or

"Please go and DO my root."


billcoe_


May 4, 2010, 8:38 AM
Post #9 of 32 (3960 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4668

Re: [guyzo] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

 
You guys need to be doing some serious one on one and group talks IMO.


(This post was edited by billcoe_ on May 4, 2010, 8:51 AM)


dugl33


May 4, 2010, 8:54 AM
Post #10 of 32 (3931 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2009
Posts: 740

Re: [guyzo] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I for one thought mystic river was a good route (if I'm picturing the right one). Certainly not a squeeze job as it was the only route on a stand alone formation. Seems like it was the longest route in the grotto, too.

I thought the development work was a bit more heavy handed down at easy street.

I haven't been out there in a while (4 or 5 months) so maybe more recent work is causing probs?


bennydh


May 4, 2010, 11:25 AM
Post #11 of 32 (3863 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 1, 2005
Posts: 368

Re: [guyzo] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

WTF is the point of an FA if no one will ever be able to access your route afterward? Egos?



... idiots


socalbolter


May 4, 2010, 12:26 PM
Post #12 of 32 (3798 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 796

Re: [bennydh] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

For the record, I've been in contact with Ben about this. He was down in the Grotto when the rangers were there and volunteered to remove the routes in question.

There were actually five routes that were removed: "Mystic River," "Bunnymen," "Garden of Expectations," "Stairway to Heaven," and "Puffing Hunchback."

The signs went up after the bolt removal.

I hope this serves as a good reminder to all who use the area that we are being watched, and we need to respect the wishes of those who so graciously allow us to enjoy the area.

Please do your part to keep the area clean.

Thanks!

- Louie


majid_sabet


May 4, 2010, 12:33 PM
Post #13 of 32 (3785 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 8352

Re: [guyzo] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

bolt every 3 feet sound like a sport climbing.

is that right ?


Partner j_ung


May 4, 2010, 12:59 PM
Post #14 of 32 (3749 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18687

Re: [socalbolter] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

socalbolter wrote:
For the record, I've been in contact with Ben about this. He was down in the Grotto when the rangers were there and volunteered to remove the routes in question.

There were actually five routes that were removed: "Mystic River," "Bunnymen," "Garden of Expectations," "Stairway to Heaven," and "Puffing Hunchback."

The signs went up after the bolt removal.

I hope this serves as a good reminder to all who use the area that we are being watched, and we need to respect the wishes of those who so graciously allow us to enjoy the area.

Please do your part to keep the area clean.

Thanks!

- Louie

Emphasis mine. Sounds like the problem's been solved.


socalbolter


May 4, 2010, 1:02 PM
Post #15 of 32 (3737 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 796

Re: [j_ung] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

While I haven't climbed regularly at Echo for years, I would be extremely sad to see us lose the privilege of climbing there.

Let this be a lesson to all of us (regardless of where we climb) to be good area stewards and to make sure that any interaction with non-climbers and land managers is viewed as a positive one.

The future of this area and many others rests squarely in our own hands.


socalbolter


May 5, 2010, 12:23 PM
Post #16 of 32 (3628 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 796

Re: [socalbolter] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Just got off the phone with the Head Ranger for the Santa Monica Mountains office of the NPS. He called me regarding this issue as he and I had worked together to secure climber access at Echo Cliffs back in the beginning stages of its development. He is a very reasonable person and operates with a pro-climbing stance, as long as NPS concerns and restrictions are met with and respected.

He relayed the series of events to me as they occurred to date (much of which has been discussed here and elsewhere online already). The gist of it is that there were routes added in The Grotto whose development either included removal of mosses and other vegetation, or locations with close proximity to the endangered Marcescent dudleya plant.

He did mention that he and other NPS officials ran into Ben Chapman and that he walked with them and was very respectful and volunteered to remove the bolts from the routes in question.

There are currently temporary signs in place at these sections of cliff, and permanent signage is being made now. These signs will designate sections of cliff that are closed to all climbing activities. These signs will be installed by volunteer climbers, working directly with him. The sections of cliff that will be closed to climbing are the cliffs on both sides of The Grotto as follows:

Upstream walls from the arete of Game Boy on the south side of the creek.

Upstream walls from Xanadu on the north side of the creek.

All other Grotto routes are fine and will remain open for climbing, as will the remainder of Echo Cliffs.

As mentioned before, we should feel fortunate that we have NPS officials in this area that are willing to work with climbers. We should also (all of us) re-commit ourselves to keeping our climbing areas clean and abiding by whatever few limitations have been placed on us.

Specific to Echo, please remember:

No trash left behind.
No dogs at the crag.
No fires.
No overnight camping at the crag or parking areas.
No cross-country travel.
No climbing in closed areas.

Thank you one and all - enjoy yourselves out there, and be safe.

- Louie


guyzo


May 5, 2010, 12:49 PM
Post #17 of 32 (3602 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 26, 2003
Posts: 37

Re: [socalbolter] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Louie. Thank you for the info and the update.

I reckon if you need to use a GIANT WIRE BRUSH, a Saw, and a CROWBAR to prep your new one, some people might object to you and your climbs.

Talking nicely and looking for some restraint didn't do a darn thing. It took the NPS to step in for this person to stop putting down climbs.

We are so lucky we are not shut out, like at Willie. And just like Willie, it's easy to close down but it's almost imposable to get it reopened after it gets on the radar.

Guy Keesee


Partner j_ung


May 5, 2010, 12:55 PM
Post #18 of 32 (3597 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18687

Re: [guyzo] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Of course I'm not there and haven't the first clue... but your version sure does sound a lot more sinister than Louie's.


guyzo


May 6, 2010, 11:38 AM
Post #19 of 32 (3508 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 26, 2003
Posts: 37

Re: [j_ung] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

To BillCoe, Tried to have one on one talk many times... was told to go f-myself. (and I was nice too)

In other parts of our nation, serious damage might have been done to vehicles.

I believe in peace and understanding.

It all good now that the routes have been removed.

Any idea how long it will be till the moss and flowers grow back??

late


tyler


May 6, 2010, 12:11 PM
Post #20 of 32 (3477 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 6, 2004
Posts: 65

Re: [guyzo] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

guyzo wrote:
You know Ben, it's very poor style to put in generic bolted climbs every 3 feet. Climbs that have no character, just a climb, just like the one right next to it.

Well said.


edge


May 6, 2010, 12:15 PM
Post #21 of 32 (3470 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9093

Re: [socalbolter] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

socalbolter wrote:
There were actually five routes that were removed: "Mystic River," "Bunnymen," "Garden of Expectations," "Stairway to Heaven," and "Puffing Hunchback."

- Louie

I found this picture in the routes database. Is the rock so chossy that natural gear would be suspect?

This sure screams out as a candidate for bolt removal.




jt512


May 6, 2010, 12:44 PM
Post #22 of 32 (3448 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21892

Re: [edge] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

edge wrote:
socalbolter wrote:
There were actually five routes that were removed: "Mystic River," "Bunnymen," "Garden of Expectations," "Stairway to Heaven," and "Puffing Hunchback."

- Louie

This sure screams out as a candidate for bolt removal.


No, it doesn't. It's a sport crag.

Jay


csproul


May 6, 2010, 12:53 PM
Post #23 of 32 (3429 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1767

Re: [edge] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

edge wrote:
socalbolter wrote:
There were actually five routes that were removed: "Mystic River," "Bunnymen," "Garden of Expectations," "Stairway to Heaven," and "Puffing Hunchback."

- Louie

I found this picture in the routes database. Is the rock so chossy that natural gear would be suspect?

This sure screams out as a candidate for bolt removal.

[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/0/328500-largest_2.jpg[/image]
..and, yes, it is that chossy.


edge


May 7, 2010, 6:50 AM
Post #24 of 32 (3351 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9093

Re: [jt512] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
edge wrote:
socalbolter wrote:
There were actually five routes that were removed: "Mystic River," "Bunnymen," "Garden of Expectations," "Stairway to Heaven," and "Puffing Hunchback."

- Louie

I found this picture in the routes database. Is the rock so chossy that natural gear would be suspect?

This sure screams out as a candidate for bolt removal.


No, it doesn't. It's a sport crag.

Jay

Yes, one that caught the attention of NPS rangers because it was being treated like a gym.


(This post was edited by edge on May 7, 2010, 6:59 AM)


jt512


May 7, 2010, 10:14 AM
Post #25 of 32 (3283 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21892

Re: [edge] Good job boys. - The NPS erased your climbs. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

edge wrote:
jt512 wrote:
edge wrote:
socalbolter wrote:
There were actually five routes that were removed: "Mystic River," "Bunnymen," "Garden of Expectations," "Stairway to Heaven," and "Puffing Hunchback."

- Louie

I found this picture in the routes database. Is the rock so chossy that natural gear would be suspect?

This sure screams out as a candidate for bolt removal.

[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/0/328500-largest_2.jpg[/image]

No, it doesn't. It's a sport crag.

Jay

Yes, one that caught the attention of NPS rangers because it was being treated like a gym.

Edge, there are on the order of 1500 bolts at Echo Cliffs. The NPS obviously was not reacting to the ~8 bolts on this route. They were reacting to the presence of an endangered plant species near the route.

Jay

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : Regional Discussions

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?
$16.16 (10% off)
$62.55 (10% off)
$13.46 (10% off)
$44.96 (10% off)



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook