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Seconding: Lower outs: Lower out with accenders on or off the rope?
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USnavy


May 6, 2010, 4:23 AM
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Seconding: Lower outs: Lower out with accenders on or off the rope?
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When lowering out / off a fixed piece is it a good idea to remain tied into the rope with the ascenders or should one only be tied in with a biner and a figure eight on a bite (and the end of the rope of course)?

Let me clarify.

Step 1: You continue ascending your leader's rope cleaning the pro until you reach the fixed piece the leader used for a pendulum / tension traverse.

2. You see that you have to lower out / down off the fixed piece about 20 feet.

3. You clip straight into the fixed piece that youíre going to lower out / down off.

4. You tie a figure eight on a bite and clip it to your belay loop for a back up well passing the ascenders over the fixed piece just like you always do when ascending.

5. (here is where the question comes in) You take the ascenders off the rope and either:

a. pass the ascenders around the piece just like you always do when cleaning and clip them back to the rope.

b. remove both ascenders all together.

6. You thread the rope through the fixed piece.

7. You lower off the fixed piece until your weight is supported by the leaderís rope once again.

8. You pull the bite of rope you used to lowered out on and continue ascending.

Normally when cleaning pieces you would chose option a. However if you kept the ascenders on the rope and the fixed piece pulled well lowering out you would take a nice whipper onto the ascenders and probably chop your rope, sending you to your maker. So do you normally just remain tied in with a figure eight on a bite (and of course the end of the rope) and wait to reattach the ascenders to the rope until youíre completely finished with the lower out?

Taking a whipper on a figure eight attached to your harness with a biner sounds rather sketchy but I guess taking one on an ascender is much worse. Pirate


(This post was edited by USnavy on May 6, 2010, 4:25 AM)


tomtom


May 6, 2010, 9:27 AM
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Registered: Jan 9, 2004
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Re: [USnavy] Seconding: Lower outs: Lower out with accenders on or off the rope? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
However if you kept the ascenders on the rope and the fixed piece pulled well lowering out you would take a nice whipper onto the ascenders and probably chop your rope, sending you to your maker.

When I lower out, I put the upper ascender on the rope above the backup knot and keep the rope tight. Therefore, there is no 'whipper' if the piece blows, I'd just pendulum. Same as if the piece blew as I was jugging up to it.


summerprophet


May 6, 2010, 12:05 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Seconding: Lower outs: Lower out with accenders on or off the rope? [In reply to]
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Lower outs can be tricky. (Understatement of the decade).

If your leader is good, he will not backclean traverses, and make your lower outs somewhat reasonable.

Here are the options:
1.
On long traverses, skip lower outs by clipping piece to piece, cleaning behind you as you go. Remember your back up knots.

2.
With repeated small lower outs, Move one jug ahead of the piece to be cleaned, and tighten it as much as possible. Grab the rope beneath the other aider, and tension it with one hand, while you release the jug with the other. In a controlled manner let the rope slide through your (gloved) hand until the tension is released. tricky to masted, but fast.
Remember your backups of course.

ALSO, glance around for face holds, if you can breifly unweight the rope, you can skip all this, and pull the piece.

3.
With lower outs greater than you can reach, utilize the lead line below you, or use a cordalette to build a 2:1 from your harness through the piece to be cleaned. Lock the codalette with your hand (use a munter if you are tired), and move the jugs past the piece. Lower out via short rappels.

CAUTION:
With all traverses, it is a really good idea to lock your jugs from becoming undone. (Utilizing the biner holes behind the teeth). Depending on the methods you use to traverse this can be unnoticable or a real pain in the ass. Something to consider.


Partner xtrmecat


Jun 8, 2010, 9:30 AM
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Registered: Apr 1, 2004
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Re: [summerprophet] Seconding: Lower outs: Lower out with accenders on or off the rope? [In reply to]
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What Justin said.

I always have the top jug above the piece to lower out from. This subject has as many exceptions as rules, and the leader has the control on how hard the second works on said lowering problems.

Chris Mac has a great video for free viewing, look it up, it is worth a thousand words.

Bob


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