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ensonik


May 9, 2010, 3:36 PM
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Rappel accident in Yosemite
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For now, it's a just a thread on ST, but there have been some first hand accounts

http://www.supertopo.com/...e-above-the-Awahanee

Basically, a rap setup that wasn't backed up. This (found on the thread) could have saved him:
http://www.canyonwiki.com/...dex.php/'biner_block
I'm reposting here because I'm curious to hear what you guys have to say about these types of setups. Pros, cons, tradeoffs.


(This post was edited by ensonik on May 9, 2010, 3:56 PM)


patto


May 9, 2010, 5:03 PM
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Re: [ensonik] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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A single rope rap with a pull cord had its knot pulled through the anchor.

Makes you think twice about the setup. Put a biner on the knot to be sure.

RIP


socalclimber


May 10, 2010, 8:10 AM
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Re: [ensonik] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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ensonik wrote:
For now, it's a just a thread on ST, but there have been some first hand accounts

http://www.supertopo.com/...e-above-the-Awahanee

Basically, a rap setup that wasn't backed up. This (found on the thread) could have saved him:
http://www.canyonwiki.com/...dex.php/'biner_block
I'm reposting here because I'm curious to hear what you guys have to say about these types of setups. Pros, cons, tradeoffs.

The system is fine as long as you use it correctly. YOU MUST HAVE THE BACK UP. The system was used incorrectly for some reason. Hence the unfortunate outcome.

This is a very old system that has been in use for decades. Why the climber chose not to back up the system is a question maybe the partner(s) could answer.

The one thing to watch for with this system is if the pull isn't going to be clean, you can have an epic time with stuck ropes.


(This post was edited by socalclimber on May 10, 2010, 8:30 AM)


Gmburns2000


May 10, 2010, 8:51 AM
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Re: [ensonik] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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That's sad news. May the climber RIP.

Personally, I don't like the set-up, even with the back up (just don't like having a biner whipping through the air down at my head with a couple of knots). Of course, I've never liked the set up without the back up.

I don't do / have not yet done any kind of climbing where weight is so much of an issue that double ropes becomes a bad idea, so I won't comment on that aspect of it, but I try to convince my partners to use double ropes if double-length rappels are required / useful instead of the described set up.

However, I know a fair amount of people who use and trust that system. It's been around for years.


summerprophet


May 10, 2010, 10:09 AM
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Re: [ensonik] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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Everytime I climb Serenity, I look down and am AMAZED that nobody has died on this yet.

I am really surprised that it was on rappel though.

My condolences to friends and familly.


patto


May 10, 2010, 6:11 PM
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Re: [summerprophet] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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From SuperTopo
In reply to:
Dear friends and members of the climbing community,

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts, for your support, and for sharing your compassion for the tragic accident that unfolded.

Brian Ellis is one of my closest friends, and my main climbing partner for five years. We were descending from Sunset Ledge after completing the Serenity-Sons link up when the accident happened.

It has been incredibly difficult trying to process what happened, but I feel that it is important to learn from this tragedy, and to ensure that it never happens again.

Here is my analysis on the cause of the accident:


The system:

The rappel system we used is also known as the "Reepschnur" method, where the 6 mil tag line is used as a pull cord. The lead line was a 10.2 mil. At each rap station, the two ropes were joined together with an overhand knot ("EDK"). This was backed up by an additional overhand knot, nested and dressed cleanly right next to the primary knot, with long tails (always at least 12").

The knot was tied so that the load was on the 10.2 mm lead line (i.e, the knot was on the side of the pull cord). A backup knot - figure 8 on a bight - is just below the two overhands on the 6mm, and clipped with a locking carabiner to the lead line. This photo illustrates it perfectly.



via Petzl -- edit: this photo doesn't show the two strands of rope tie...
via Petzl -- edit: this photo doesn't show the two strands of rope tied together with overhand knots and long tails.
Credit: slobmonster



Brian insisted on using his Cinch to rappel on. It was his favorite device. As others have noted, using the Cinch (or Gri-gri), you HAVE to do a single-rope rappel. He rappelled first with his Cinch, and after he clipped in to the next anchor, I remove the backup knot and carabiner (so that there's no carabiner whizzing in space towards us, and so that it doesn't get snagged while pulling). I rappel next with an ATC. This is basically our system. I have a few more words below regarding this system.


What caused the system to fail?

The primary cause of failure was that the knot passed through the rappel rings as Brian was mid-rappel on the single 10.2 lead line. This is something that is unthinkable to a lot of us. Anyone who has ever tied two ropes together to rappel knows this.

Still, the unthinkable happened this time, and it was critical that the backup knot with a locking carabiner was present to jam up against the rappel rings. Unfortunately, this is where the BIGGEST MISTAKE was made. When Brian set up this system and tied the knots (I was coiling the ropes in the meantime preparing for tossing), he forgot to tie the backup knot. When I checked the system for him, I too, committed the same mistake and only observed the main knot. He checked it a THIRD time, and made the same oversight.

The only explanation I have for this oversight is distraction and complacency. Brian MAY not have been 100% focused on the task (there were several things going on... party coming behind us and he was excited to take photos of the leader below... a few moments earlier on the last pitch, we were rudely and inconsiderately passed up by a speeding simul-climbing party; this bothered both of us considerably). I am equally guilty of the same distraction and complacency for not having noticed the absence of the backup.

The accident was NOT equipment failure (the rope, Cinch, tag line, all performed the way they were supposed to).
The accident was NOT knot failure (the knot was tied properly, with long tails).
The accident was NOT anchor failure (the bolts, webbing, and rings - albeit a little larger than chains - were not faulty).

During every single rappel that Brian and I have done together with this system, we have tied the backup knot. The principle overhand knot had NEVER passed through the rings before. However, the one time it was forgotten, sadly, was when it was most critical.

You don't lose often when climbing, but when you do lose... you lose big. I'm just absolutely devastated by this harsh lesson.


Other thoughts:

Brian introduced this system to me several years ago after learning about it on the internet. We were both partly inspired by this video. When doing the research on this system, there are several issues that I didn't discover.

The first is that, although Brian was using the system properly for a single-rope rappel (yes, I know the backup knot was not tied when the accident happened), when I hopped on rappel with an ATC, I was using the system improperly. Although I'm rappelling on both the 10.2 line, and the 6mm cord, only the 10.2 line is properly rated to withstand the force temperatures that a friction device can create. Pull cords of that diameter have a much lower melting point.

The second is that there are variations in rappel ring sizes. The smallest ones (like rappel chains) are just about impossible to pass the knot through. However, the larger models, like the ones atop Sunset Ledge (or even things like Cold Shuts or Mussy Hooks), warrant that the knot is ABSOLUTELY never going to pass through. Additionally, the 10.2 line tied with an EDK to a 6mm cord makes a smaller knot than two 10mm lines tied together.

All of these factors make the rappel system more complicated, which means that more steps need to be taken to ensure that it is bomb-proof. If a system requires Steps 1,2,3, and 4, it is critical that ALL the steps are performed even though Steps 3 and 4 may only be back-ups. Simpler setups that require fewer steps, as a result, should be the ones that people should be using. There is less room for error in simpler setups.

Brian and I tested the knot atop Sunset Ledge and made sure that it wouldn't pass through the rings. When he started rappelling on the single line, he descended about 15 ft, locked off his Cinch and started taking photos of the leader on the P3 crux of Serenity for about 10 minutes. While he was taking photos, he moved a bit to the left, and then to the right to check out the climber. Then, after having spent about 10 minutes taking photos, he went back to descending the single line. This is when I heard a pop and the sound of the rope whizzing. I tried to grab it with my bare hands and held on tightly as long as I could. My instinct even tried to wrap it around my waist for an emergency brake, but the rope just burned through my hand.

The shock load that Jesse talks about is the result of the tag-line getting tangled up and getting jammed up on the rings. The heat generated on the rings then burned the 6mm line, and a clump of the tag line fell on the ledge where I was.

It is so ironic that the day we were climbing was the first time that I convinced Brian to bring along an ATC to do the rappels on. I never do single-rope rappels, and am scared of rappels in general, so I have tried for a long while to get Brian to rappel with a traditional friction-device. The ATC was in his backpack.

I have asked myself "what would I do differently?" so many times. It hurts so bad to think that this was preventable. I hope that we can take this lesson to heart and learn from it. When reading whats out there on the forums (RC, Mountainproject, Summitpost, etc.) the subtle factors that led to this system failure (knot passing through, variations in rap ring sizes, knot size for 10mm/6mm combo) are not discussed very thoroughly.



I have many thoughts about the accident, and am available if anyone wants to learn more. Please email me directly: japhyd[at]gmail[dot]com.

I want to extend a deep and sincere thanks to everyone involved in the rescue. My condolences go out to Brian's family, his girlfriend, his pet bunnies, and all of his friends.

Brian made the world a better place with his presence, and I miss him dearly.


Japhy Dhungana

Tragic accident. I hope lessons can be learned. I thank Japhy for his thorough and painful account.


**OFF TOPIC
In contrast to the Darkside incident. I thank those involved in this incident their communication. Might I point out that when information of accidents come quickly to the community then needless speculation and debate that some people are sensitive is far less likely to occur. There is no obligation to provide information but I think it is ridiculous to complain about incorrect speculation and discussion while witholding answers.


Gmburns2000


May 10, 2010, 6:48 PM
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Re: [patto] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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Damn. Thanks to Japhy Dhungana for providing what appears to be an honest account of the situation, and thanks to Patto for cross posting.

Difficult lesson to learn. Condolences again.


socalclimber


May 10, 2010, 7:29 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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Yeah the biner flinging through the air towards you is a rather unsettling image.

I have used it, I just tend to use more "conventional" systems.

The report was excellent considering how quickly the partner wrote it after the accident. Unfortunately, that is the best time to get the facts. The longer the period of time after the incident, the more inaccurate the details.

It's the primary reason law enforcement and accident investigators are pressing so hard right after an incident.


(This post was edited by socalclimber on May 10, 2010, 7:32 PM)


notapplicable


May 10, 2010, 8:40 PM
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Re: [socalclimber] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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My condolences to Brian's family and much thanks to Japhy for writing such a detailed report and putting the information out there. It sucks that the smallest mistakes are often what lead to the hard lessons learned but people can and will learn from this accident.

It's no consolation I know, but it is important.


socalclimber


May 10, 2010, 8:46 PM
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100% agreed.


jefffski


May 10, 2010, 9:00 PM
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Re: [patto] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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Thank you for your brutally honest assessment of this tragedy. It takes guts to speak the truth, especially at this difficult time for you, and to admit your part in the accident. Your willingness to share will save lives.

Some years ago, my partner slid down a steep slope when the rappel, which I set up, failed. He did not check it and luckily survived with minor injuries. My guilt lingers to this day--but it has had the effect of causing me to check and recheck every rappel I make.

My deepest condolences to his friends and family.


Gabel


May 11, 2010, 2:48 AM
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Re: [ensonik] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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I am very sorry to hear about this accident. My condolences go out to family and friends.
Thank you so much for sharing your first hand account. It is important for every single one of us.


socalclimber


May 11, 2010, 3:11 PM
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Re: [Gabel] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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I'm going to make another response to this thread that I think is incredibly important. The partner who witnessed the fall made the same point, I would like to just send it home so to speak.

Despite the lack of a blocking knot (or backup if you like), a big cause of this accident in my opinion was not using the proper device for the job.

Grigi's and Cinch's or other devices like them ARE NOT RAP DEVICES! This in my opinion was a BIG MISTAKE. These style devices are very well suited for specific applications, multi-pitch raps are not one of them.

I'll say it again, I tend to be old school in my methods.

Simple is better. Clean, straight forward systems are easy to inspect and lower the odds of a missed step ending in disaster. The partner in this accident was right on the money attempting to urge his friend to drop the Cinch for raps and use an atc style device.


moose_droppings


May 11, 2010, 4:12 PM
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Re: [patto] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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I can't imagine how gut wrenching this was for him to post. Thanks for cross posting it.

My condolences go out to his family and all those close to him.


(This post was edited by moose_droppings on May 11, 2010, 4:12 PM)


redlude97


May 11, 2010, 4:23 PM
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Re: [socalclimber] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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socalclimber wrote:
I'm going to make another response to this thread that I think is incredibly important. The partner who witnessed the fall made the same point, I would like to just send it home so to speak.

Despite the lack of a blocking knot (or backup if you like), a big cause of this accident in my opinion was not using the proper device for the job.

Grigi's and Cinch's or other devices like them ARE NOT RAP DEVICES! This in my opinion was a BIG MISTAKE. These style devices are very well suited for specific applications, multi-pitch raps are not one of them.

I'll say it again, I tend to be old school in my methods.

Simple is better. Clean, straight forward systems are easy to inspect and lower the odds of a missed step ending in disaster. The partner in this accident was right on the money attempting to urge his friend to drop the Cinch for raps and use an atc style device.
How did the Cinch contribute to this accident that an ATC would have prevented?


silascl


May 11, 2010, 4:30 PM
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Re: [socalclimber] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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socalclimber wrote:
I'm going to make another response to this thread that I think is incredibly important. The partner who witnessed the fall made the same point, I would like to just send it home so to speak.

Despite the lack of a blocking knot (or backup if you like), a big cause of this accident in my opinion was not using the proper device for the job.

Grigi's and Cinch's or other devices like them ARE NOT RAP DEVICES! This in my opinion was a BIG MISTAKE. These style devices are very well suited for specific applications, multi-pitch raps are not one of them.

I'll say it again, I tend to be old school in my methods.

Simple is better. Clean, straight forward systems are easy to inspect and lower the odds of a missed step ending in disaster. The partner in this accident was right on the money attempting to urge his friend to drop the Cinch for raps and use an atc style device.

An ATC used on that system could have resulted in the exact same error. Either way it was a single line rap with a pull line. His partner is lucky that he wasn't the victim much earlier when he was removing the biner block and doing the raps on his ATC, which he said was standard practice for them.

If the problem is the lack of a simple system, they should have used doubles or done single rope raps, instead of using a pull cord which creates the need for a biner block of some kind.


socalclimber


May 11, 2010, 4:51 PM
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Re: [silascl] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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My apologies for not being more clear on my points above.

The reason I am saying that the Cinch/Grigri style devices were a leading cause to this incident is due to the fact that they require this type of system in order to work.

The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.

If you want to go light, then take a 9mil cord along with your 10mil lead line. This way you can double rope rap with a ATC style device. Just make sure the knot is on oriented at the anchor properly. Meaning, the knot that joins the two ropes together is the "stopper" knot. I refer to the thin (9 mil) rope to be the "downhill" side.

Trying to double rope rap with a 7mil/10mil setup is just as dangerous. Way to much slippage and uneven friction on the belay device to be a good choice.

Cinch's and Grigri's are not rap devices.


silascl


May 11, 2010, 5:04 PM
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Re: [socalclimber] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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socalclimber wrote:
My apologies for not being more clear on my points above.

The reason I am saying that the Cinch/Grigri style devices were a leading cause to this incident is due to the fact that they require this type of system in order to work.

The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.

If you want to go light, then take a 9mil cord along with your 10mil lead line. This way you can double rope rap with a ATC style device. Just make sure the knot is on oriented at the anchor properly. Meaning, the knot that joins the two ropes together is the "stopper" knot. I refer to the thin (9 mil) rope to be the "downhill" side.

Trying to double rope rap with a 7mil/10mil setup is just as dangerous. Way to much slippage and uneven friction on the belay device to be a good choice.

Cinch's and Grigri's are not rap devices.

I'm in 100% agreement with this, keep the whole system simple and use an ATC style device.


socalclimber


May 11, 2010, 5:17 PM
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Re: [silascl] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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It sure seems to be the best practice I have found.

I work as a guide (when there's work), and on a number of occasions during intermediate classes I have had clients ask me about systems like this.

I flatly (nicely) refuse to teach them these types of techniques. I tell them why I do not like them, and that they are free to find a guide who is willing to teach them.

I just believe that teaching complicated systems is not in the best interest of the client. Learn the basics, love the basics. It will serve you well.

Put down all the "trick" devices like the reverso's and ATC guides. You don't need this shit. Just keep it simple and easy to inspect.

I will stand behind my statement in the beginning of this thread that this system is fine and will work well if properly used. I used this system 2 or 3 times about 15 years ago and decided I wasn't comfortable with it in the long run and stopped. I went back to the basics and have dogmatically stuck with them ever since.

Rapping still scares me. I am constantly checking everything thing I do for fear of screwing it up and ending up on the ground dead or mangled.

Dead or mangled just isn't in my game plan...


redlude97


May 11, 2010, 5:28 PM
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Re: [socalclimber] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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socalclimber wrote:
My apologies for not being more clear on my points above.

The reason I am saying that the Cinch/Grigri style devices were a leading cause to this incident is due to the fact that they require this type of system in order to work.

The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.

If you want to go light, then take a 9mil cord along with your 10mil lead line. This way you can double rope rap with a ATC style device. Just make sure the knot is on oriented at the anchor properly. Meaning, the knot that joins the two ropes together is the "stopper" knot. I refer to the thin (9 mil) rope to be the "downhill" side.

Trying to double rope rap with a 7mil/10mil setup is just as dangerous. Way to much slippage and uneven friction on the belay device to be a good choice.

Cinch's and Grigri's are not rap devices.
While I agree that a 9/10mil setup is preferable, and I don't use my cinch for rappelling, the use of a 9/10 combo would have prevented the knot passing through the rings in this incident as well, so your "solution" IMO isn't any simpler and doesn't solve anything in regards to this particular situation had an atc been used instead.


socalclimber


May 11, 2010, 5:38 PM
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Re: [redlude97] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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I'm a bit confused by your response. Could you please clarify?


socalclimber


May 11, 2010, 6:18 PM
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Re: [redlude97] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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redlude97 wrote:
socalclimber wrote:
My apologies for not being more clear on my points above.

The reason I am saying that the Cinch/Grigri style devices were a leading cause to this incident is due to the fact that they require this type of system in order to work.

The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.

If you want to go light, then take a 9mil cord along with your 10mil lead line. This way you can double rope rap with a ATC style device. Just make sure the knot is on oriented at the anchor properly. Meaning, the knot that joins the two ropes together is the "stopper" knot. I refer to the thin (9 mil) rope to be the "downhill" side.

Trying to double rope rap with a 7mil/10mil setup is just as dangerous. Way to much slippage and uneven friction on the belay device to be a good choice.

Cinch's and Grigri's are not rap devices.
While I agree that a 9/10mil setup is preferable, and I don't use my cinch for rappelling, the use of a 9/10 combo would have prevented the knot passing through the rings in this incident as well, so your "solution" IMO isn't any simpler and doesn't solve anything in regards to this particular situation had an atc been used instead.

Ok, after re-reading your response I think I see what your point is.

Again, sorry if I'm not being clear enough here.

My main point in all of this has little to do with being able to prevent this specific accident, under the specific conditions in which it happened, in the specific date and time that it occurred.

My point is in the methodology that caused the accident in the first place. The partner clearly stated that he tried to get his partner to abandon his practices.

So the real problem here lies not in the tragic events that unfolded that very day, but were caused by a much bigger problem long before they ever got to the route.

This is not a blame game, it's a period for us all to re-evaluate what happened and why it happened. Approaching the problem from a tunnel vision point of view, meaning, the actual accident itself, won't help others in the long run.

What will help all of us in the long run is to evaluate what went wrong up front, then start to back track and understand the methodologies that were considered common and acceptable for the departed.

As far as I can tell, most accidents are merely a culmination of events that start long before we hit the rock. These tend to include how we approach our "sport" (a term I don't like to use). If we start out with less than optimal ideas, and turn them into habits, then bad things are more likely to happen.

I'm not sure I can be more clear on this.

Japhy should be given the highest award in the history of mankind for his attempts to dissuade his partner from such methodologies.

I commend him and hold him in the highest regard.


Gmburns2000


May 11, 2010, 7:37 PM
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Re: [socalclimber] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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The timing of this is so odd. I had always wondered if there were rings out there where the knot could pass through, but my worry was usually having the knot get caught in between two rings while on a regular rappel (rapping off both strands). I have watched to see if this could happen over the years and was coming to the conclusion that it probably couldn't...until I was in Red Rocks recently and watched the knot damn near slip through one of the two rings while my partner was rapping. Now, if it had done that then it only would have been an inconvenience because he was rapping off both strands, but for the first time I saw that it could possibly happen. And now this.

I guess that doesn't really add anything, but I wanted to share it anyway.


potreroed


May 11, 2010, 7:55 PM
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Re: [socalclimber] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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Sorry to disagree, socalclimber, but gri-gri's are excellent rappel devices if used properly. I use mine all the time for simul-rapping and rapping the single static fixed lines that I use when I'm putting up long routes. I have rapped many thousands of feet with it and I love the handling and extra safety it provides.

Sadly, the tragic accident in this post would have occured whatever device was used.


redlude97


May 11, 2010, 8:01 PM
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Re: [socalclimber] Rappel accident in Yosemite [In reply to]
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socalclimber wrote:
redlude97 wrote:
socalclimber wrote:
My apologies for not being more clear on my points above.

The reason I am saying that the Cinch/Grigri style devices were a leading cause to this incident is due to the fact that they require this type of system in order to work.

The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.

If you want to go light, then take a 9mil cord along with your 10mil lead line. This way you can double rope rap with a ATC style device. Just make sure the knot is on oriented at the anchor properly. Meaning, the knot that joins the two ropes together is the "stopper" knot. I refer to the thin (9 mil) rope to be the "downhill" side.

Trying to double rope rap with a 7mil/10mil setup is just as dangerous. Way to much slippage and uneven friction on the belay device to be a good choice.

Cinch's and Grigri's are not rap devices.
While I agree that a 9/10mil setup is preferable, and I don't use my cinch for rappelling, the use of a 9/10 combo would have prevented the knot passing through the rings in this incident as well, so your "solution" IMO isn't any simpler and doesn't solve anything in regards to this particular situation had an atc been used instead.

Ok, after re-reading your response I think I see what your point is.

Again, sorry if I'm not being clear enough here.

My main point in all of this has little to do with being able to prevent this specific accident, under the specific conditions in which it happened, in the specific date and time that it occurred.

My point is in the methodology that caused the accident in the first place. The partner clearly stated that he tried to get his partner to abandon his practices.

So the real problem here lies not in the tragic events that unfolded that very day, but were caused by a much bigger problem long before they ever got to the route.

This is not a blame game, it's a period for us all to re-evaluate what happened and why it happened. Approaching the problem from a tunnel vision point of view, meaning, the actual accident itself, won't help others in the long run.

What will help all of us in the long run is to evaluate what went wrong up front, then start to back track and understand the methodologies that were considered common and acceptable for the departed.

As far as I can tell, most accidents are merely a culmination of events that start long before we hit the rock. These tend to include how we approach our "sport" (a term I don't like to use). If we start out with less than optimal ideas, and turn them into habits, then bad things are more likely to happen.

I'm not sure I can be more clear on this.

Japhy should be given the highest award in the history of mankind for his attempts to dissuade his partner from such methodologies.

I commend him and hold him in the highest regard.
I would argue that the majority of people who carry a tag line for rappel carry something significantly smaller than 9mm, regardless of rappel device choice. Many of the people I know who climb trad do NOT carry a grigri/cinch due to weight and the static belay resulting in higher forces. Many DO use a tag line which is ~7mm. I find that is a common practice, including on here where there are multiple threads on the subject.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...appel%20tag;#2062968
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...4;page=unread#unread
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=1182780#1182780
Of course no one is arguing that this system doesn't come with some additional risk, but when used properly it is an acceptable method by IMO a large proportion of experienced climbers. So once the system is chosen, the rappel device that is used becomes personal preference. We aren't talking about someone losing control of their cinch here and rapping off the end of their line.

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