|
|
|
|
kjaking
May 13, 2010, 4:24 AM
Post #1 of 38
(12301 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 13, 2009
Posts: 35
|
I was climbing at the Cosumnes River Gorge this weekend on dinkum crack, a finger crack with friction for feet that is between 40 and 45 feet high. I got just past the crux (about 30 feet up, and maybe 6 feet above my last peice), and slotted a stopper about eye level. When I was pulling slack to clip, my foot slipped, sending me for a ride. I figured I would be in for a little fall, but quickly realized that it was more than that. I ultimately ended up on the ground with a bruised ego and shot nerves. When I asked my buddy why I was down there (with a few expletives in there), he mumbled something about not having a secure stance. I know that the fundamental mistakes that I made were not using a auto-assist belay device and not anchoring my belayer, as he set up several feet away from the wall and let out lots of rope as evidenced by the slight rope burn he had.
Two questions come of this for me are:
Should the belayer be responsible at all for setting up a secure belay? - Or does it fall entirely on the climber?
Has anybody else ever had this kind of "being dropped" experience?
|
|
|
|
|
redlude97
May 13, 2010, 6:44 AM
Post #2 of 38
(12257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 990
|
You are leaving out some key info. Did you deck because your belayer didn't lock off, or because too much slack was out? Did you pull any of your pieces? Was your belayer shot into the air up to the first piece? Describe the situation with a bit more detail please
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 13, 2010, 7:16 AM
Post #3 of 38
(12247 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
Give me a T: T
Give me an R: R
Give me an O: O
Give me an L: L
Give me another L: L goddammit!
What's that spell? TROLL!
What's that spell? TROLL!
What's that spell? TROLL!
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
airscape
May 13, 2010, 9:37 AM
Post #4 of 38
(12214 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4240
|
jt512 wrote: Give me a T: T Give me an R: R Give me an O: O Give me an L: L Give me another L: L goddammit! What's that spell? TROLL! What's that spell? TROLL! What's that spell? TROLL! Jay
I really cringe anytime someone spells stuff out like that.
It's might just be me though, but I really hate it.
nothing personal.
just a thought.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
May 13, 2010, 12:36 PM
Post #5 of 38
(12168 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
airscape wrote: jt512 wrote: Give me a T: T Give me an R: R Give me an O: O Give me an L: L Give me another L: L goddammit! What's that spell? TROLL! What's that spell? TROLL! What's that spell? TROLL! Jay I really cringe anytime someone spells stuff out like that. It's might just be me though, but I really hate it. nothing personal. just a thought.
Really? I love it. It's like soaking nekkid in a cool tub of beer on a hot day to me.
OP, it's his fault and yours. Accidents are rarely the result of one error, and yours doesn't seem any different. Two right off the bat: your partner is a poor belayer and you shouldn't have been on his rope. I have been dropped, and it was a hard lesson to learn early in my climbing life. I never climbed with that guy again, and today, I'm a little particular about who I rope up with and what I climb when I haven't logged a lot of hours with my belayer.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
May 13, 2010, 12:46 PM
Post #6 of 38
(12156 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
kjaking wrote: I was climbing at the Cosumnes River Gorge this weekend on dinkum crack, a finger crack with friction for feet that is between 40 and 45 feet high. I got just past the crux (about 30 feet up, and maybe 6 feet above my last peice), and slotted a stopper about eye level. When I was pulling slack to clip, my foot slipped, sending me for a ride. I figured I would be in for a little fall, but quickly realized that it was more than that. I ultimately ended up on the ground with a bruised ego and shot nerves. When I asked my buddy why I was down there (with a few expletives in there), he mumbled something about not having a secure stance. I know that the fundamental mistakes that I made were not using a auto-assist belay device and not anchoring my belayer, as he set up several feet away from the wall and let out lots of rope as evidenced by the slight rope burn he had. Two questions come of this for me are: Should the belayer be responsible at all for setting up a secure belay? - Or does it fall entirely on the climber? Has anybody else ever had this kind of "being dropped" experience?
Quoted, just in case. 
|
|
|
|
|
granite_grrl
May 13, 2010, 12:52 PM
Post #7 of 38
(12147 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
|
kjaking wrote: I was climbing at the Cosumnes River Gorge this weekend on dinkum crack, a finger crack with friction for feet that is between 40 and 45 feet high. I got just past the crux (about 30 feet up, and maybe 6 feet above my last peice), and slotted a stopper about eye level. When I was pulling slack to clip, my foot slipped, sending me for a ride. I figured I would be in for a little fall, but quickly realized that it was more than that. I ultimately ended up on the ground with a bruised ego and shot nerves. When I asked my buddy why I was down there (with a few expletives in there), he mumbled something about not having a secure stance. I know that the fundamental mistakes that I made were not using a auto-assist belay device and not anchoring my belayer, as he set up several feet away from the wall and let out lots of rope as evidenced by the slight rope burn he had. Two questions come of this for me are: Should the belayer be responsible at all for setting up a secure belay? - Or does it fall entirely on the climber? Has anybody else ever had this kind of "being dropped" experience?
The climber should take responsibility on choosing their belayer and climbing routes that are appropriate with said belayer.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
May 13, 2010, 1:04 PM
Post #8 of 38
(12144 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
I put this as mostly belayers fault, but don't absolve the OP of all blame.
WTF - He didn't have a secure stance, but was "belaying?" What did he expect to happen when the OP fell.
He was belaying away from the cliff?
The OP knew he was belaying away from the cliff?
The OP believes that an autolocking device would change this? An autolocking device does NOTHING for setting up a stupid belay situation.
[/spleen; vent]
|
|
|
|
|
karmiclimber
May 13, 2010, 1:22 PM
Post #9 of 38
(12125 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 1058
|
kjaking wrote: I was climbing at the Cosumnes River Gorge this weekend on dinkum crack, a finger crack with friction for feet that is between 40 and 45 feet high. I got just past the crux (about 30 feet up, and maybe 6 feet above my last peice), and slotted a stopper about eye level. When I was pulling slack to clip, my foot slipped, sending me for a ride. I figured I would be in for a little fall, but quickly realized that it was more than that. I ultimately ended up on the ground with a bruised ego and shot nerves. When I asked my buddy why I was down there (with a few expletives in there), he mumbled something about not having a secure stance. I know that the fundamental mistakes that I made were not using a auto-assist belay device and not anchoring my belayer, as he set up several feet away from the wall and let out lots of rope as evidenced by the slight rope burn he had. Two questions come of this for me are: Should the belayer be responsible at all for setting up a secure belay? - Or does it fall entirely on the climber? Has anybody else ever had this kind of "being dropped" experience?
Heh...I've belayed and climbed Dinkum. Every time one or the other belayed...we anchored the belayer down. DUH. Figure out that the belayer doesn't have a secure stance before proceeding. NOOB (I have always wanted to say that. OMG).
|
|
|
|
|
airscape
May 13, 2010, 1:35 PM
Post #10 of 38
(12105 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4240
|
karmiclimber wrote: kjaking wrote: I was climbing at the Cosumnes River Gorge this weekend on dinkum crack, a finger crack with friction for feet that is between 40 and 45 feet high. I got just past the crux (about 30 feet up, and maybe 6 feet above my last peice), and slotted a stopper about eye level. When I was pulling slack to clip, my foot slipped, sending me for a ride. I figured I would be in for a little fall, but quickly realized that it was more than that. I ultimately ended up on the ground with a bruised ego and shot nerves. When I asked my buddy why I was down there (with a few expletives in there), he mumbled something about not having a secure stance. I know that the fundamental mistakes that I made were not using a auto-assist belay device and not anchoring my belayer, as he set up several feet away from the wall and let out lots of rope as evidenced by the slight rope burn he had. Two questions come of this for me are: Should the belayer be responsible at all for setting up a secure belay? - Or does it fall entirely on the climber? Has anybody else ever had this kind of "being dropped" experience? Heh...I've belayed and climbed Dinkum. Every time one or the other belayed...we anchored the belayer down. DUH. Figure out that the belayer doesn't have a secure stance before proceeding. NOOB (I have always wanted to say that. OMG).
*n00b
You loose n00b 
|
|
|
|
|
karmiclimber
May 13, 2010, 1:39 PM
Post #11 of 38
(12098 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 1058
|
airscape wrote: karmiclimber wrote: kjaking wrote: I was climbing at the Cosumnes River Gorge this weekend on dinkum crack, a finger crack with friction for feet that is between 40 and 45 feet high. I got just past the crux (about 30 feet up, and maybe 6 feet above my last peice), and slotted a stopper about eye level. When I was pulling slack to clip, my foot slipped, sending me for a ride. I figured I would be in for a little fall, but quickly realized that it was more than that. I ultimately ended up on the ground with a bruised ego and shot nerves. When I asked my buddy why I was down there (with a few expletives in there), he mumbled something about not having a secure stance. I know that the fundamental mistakes that I made were not using a auto-assist belay device and not anchoring my belayer, as he set up several feet away from the wall and let out lots of rope as evidenced by the slight rope burn he had. Two questions come of this for me are: Should the belayer be responsible at all for setting up a secure belay? - Or does it fall entirely on the climber? Has anybody else ever had this kind of "being dropped" experience? Heh...I've belayed and climbed Dinkum. Every time one or the other belayed...we anchored the belayer down. DUH. Figure out that the belayer doesn't have a secure stance before proceeding. NOOB (I have always wanted to say that. OMG). *n00b You loose n00b
Crap. My one chance. And I blew it :-((
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
May 13, 2010, 1:41 PM
Post #12 of 38
(12093 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
karmiclimber wrote: airscape wrote: karmiclimber wrote: kjaking wrote: I was climbing at the Cosumnes River Gorge this weekend on dinkum crack, a finger crack with friction for feet that is between 40 and 45 feet high. I got just past the crux (about 30 feet up, and maybe 6 feet above my last peice), and slotted a stopper about eye level. When I was pulling slack to clip, my foot slipped, sending me for a ride. I figured I would be in for a little fall, but quickly realized that it was more than that. I ultimately ended up on the ground with a bruised ego and shot nerves. When I asked my buddy why I was down there (with a few expletives in there), he mumbled something about not having a secure stance. I know that the fundamental mistakes that I made were not using a auto-assist belay device and not anchoring my belayer, as he set up several feet away from the wall and let out lots of rope as evidenced by the slight rope burn he had. Two questions come of this for me are: Should the belayer be responsible at all for setting up a secure belay? - Or does it fall entirely on the climber? Has anybody else ever had this kind of "being dropped" experience? Heh...I've belayed and climbed Dinkum. Every time one or the other belayed...we anchored the belayer down. DUH. Figure out that the belayer doesn't have a secure stance before proceeding. NOOB (I have always wanted to say that. OMG). *n00b You loose n00b Crap. My one chance. And I blew it :-((
Oh, I'm sure you'll eventually run across another n00b sometime.
|
|
|
|
|
karmiclimber
May 13, 2010, 2:14 PM
Post #13 of 38
(12065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 1058
|
bill413 wrote: karmiclimber wrote: airscape wrote: karmiclimber wrote: kjaking wrote: I was climbing at the Cosumnes River Gorge this weekend on dinkum crack, a finger crack with friction for feet that is between 40 and 45 feet high. I got just past the crux (about 30 feet up, and maybe 6 feet above my last peice), and slotted a stopper about eye level. When I was pulling slack to clip, my foot slipped, sending me for a ride. I figured I would be in for a little fall, but quickly realized that it was more than that. I ultimately ended up on the ground with a bruised ego and shot nerves. When I asked my buddy why I was down there (with a few expletives in there), he mumbled something about not having a secure stance. I know that the fundamental mistakes that I made were not using a auto-assist belay device and not anchoring my belayer, as he set up several feet away from the wall and let out lots of rope as evidenced by the slight rope burn he had. Two questions come of this for me are: Should the belayer be responsible at all for setting up a secure belay? - Or does it fall entirely on the climber? Has anybody else ever had this kind of "being dropped" experience? Heh...I've belayed and climbed Dinkum. Every time one or the other belayed...we anchored the belayer down. DUH. Figure out that the belayer doesn't have a secure stance before proceeding. NOOB (I have always wanted to say that. OMG). *n00b You loose n00b Crap. My one chance. And I blew it :-(( Oh, I'm sure you'll eventually run across another n00b sometime.
Yeah, but that entails finding someone even more n00b-ly than me. Or at least being able to surmise it in so many words. And when I do? Those punks give me one star. Effers.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
May 13, 2010, 2:25 PM
Post #14 of 38
(12054 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
karmiclimber wrote: bill413 wrote: karmiclimber wrote: airscape wrote: karmiclimber wrote: kjaking wrote: I was climbing at the Cosumnes River Gorge this weekend on dinkum crack, a finger crack with friction for feet that is between 40 and 45 feet high. I got just past the crux (about 30 feet up, and maybe 6 feet above my last peice), and slotted a stopper about eye level. When I was pulling slack to clip, my foot slipped, sending me for a ride. I figured I would be in for a little fall, but quickly realized that it was more than that. I ultimately ended up on the ground with a bruised ego and shot nerves. When I asked my buddy why I was down there (with a few expletives in there), he mumbled something about not having a secure stance. I know that the fundamental mistakes that I made were not using a auto-assist belay device and not anchoring my belayer, as he set up several feet away from the wall and let out lots of rope as evidenced by the slight rope burn he had. Two questions come of this for me are: Should the belayer be responsible at all for setting up a secure belay? - Or does it fall entirely on the climber? Has anybody else ever had this kind of "being dropped" experience? Heh...I've belayed and climbed Dinkum. Every time one or the other belayed...we anchored the belayer down. DUH. Figure out that the belayer doesn't have a secure stance before proceeding. NOOB (I have always wanted to say that. OMG). *n00b You loose n00b Crap. My one chance. And I blew it :-(( Oh, I'm sure you'll eventually run across another n00b sometime. Yeah, but that entails finding someone even more n00b-ly than me. Or at least being able to surmise it in so many words. And when I do? Those punks give me one star. Effers.
Wear that star proudly! It's a sign that your post has engendered a reaction beyond the norm.
|
|
|
|
|
airscape
May 13, 2010, 2:26 PM
Post #15 of 38
(12052 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4240
|
bill413 wrote: karmiclimber wrote: airscape wrote: karmiclimber wrote: kjaking wrote: I was climbing at the Cosumnes River Gorge this weekend on dinkum crack, a finger crack with friction for feet that is between 40 and 45 feet high. I got just past the crux (about 30 feet up, and maybe 6 feet above my last peice), and slotted a stopper about eye level. When I was pulling slack to clip, my foot slipped, sending me for a ride. I figured I would be in for a little fall, but quickly realized that it was more than that. I ultimately ended up on the ground with a bruised ego and shot nerves. When I asked my buddy why I was down there (with a few expletives in there), he mumbled something about not having a secure stance. I know that the fundamental mistakes that I made were not using a auto-assist belay device and not anchoring my belayer, as he set up several feet away from the wall and let out lots of rope as evidenced by the slight rope burn he had. Two questions come of this for me are: Should the belayer be responsible at all for setting up a secure belay? - Or does it fall entirely on the climber? Has anybody else ever had this kind of "being dropped" experience? Heh...I've belayed and climbed Dinkum. Every time one or the other belayed...we anchored the belayer down. DUH. Figure out that the belayer doesn't have a secure stance before proceeding. NOOB (I have always wanted to say that. OMG). *n00b You loose n00b Crap. My one chance. And I blew it :-(( Oh, I'm sure you'll eventually run across another n00b sometime.
*cough*me*cough*
|
|
|
|
|
karmiclimber
May 13, 2010, 2:33 PM
Post #16 of 38
(12035 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 1058
|
airscape wrote: bill413 wrote: karmiclimber wrote: airscape wrote: karmiclimber wrote: kjaking wrote: I was climbing at the Cosumnes River Gorge this weekend on dinkum crack, a finger crack with friction for feet that is between 40 and 45 feet high. I got just past the crux (about 30 feet up, and maybe 6 feet above my last peice), and slotted a stopper about eye level. When I was pulling slack to clip, my foot slipped, sending me for a ride. I figured I would be in for a little fall, but quickly realized that it was more than that. I ultimately ended up on the ground with a bruised ego and shot nerves. When I asked my buddy why I was down there (with a few expletives in there), he mumbled something about not having a secure stance. I know that the fundamental mistakes that I made were not using a auto-assist belay device and not anchoring my belayer, as he set up several feet away from the wall and let out lots of rope as evidenced by the slight rope burn he had. Two questions come of this for me are: Should the belayer be responsible at all for setting up a secure belay? - Or does it fall entirely on the climber? Has anybody else ever had this kind of "being dropped" experience? Heh...I've belayed and climbed Dinkum. Every time one or the other belayed...we anchored the belayer down. DUH. Figure out that the belayer doesn't have a secure stance before proceeding. NOOB (I have always wanted to say that. OMG). *n00b You loose n00b Crap. My one chance. And I blew it :-(( Oh, I'm sure you'll eventually run across another n00b sometime. *cough*me*cough*
Not really. I don't even know who Chongo is! You got punked :P
|
|
|
|
|
kjaking
May 13, 2010, 2:47 PM
Post #17 of 38
(12013 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 13, 2009
Posts: 35
|
It was a combination of away from the cliff and letting out rope when he did end up at the first piece, so at least an autolocker would have stopped me at the first piece. I know the mistake I made, I just wasn't paying that much attention to my belayer.
|
|
|
|
|
acorneau
May 13, 2010, 3:00 PM
Post #18 of 38
(11991 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889
|
kjaking wrote: It was a combination of away from the cliff and letting out rope when he did end up at the first piece, so at least an autolocker would have stopped me at the first piece. I know the mistake I made, I just wasn't paying that much attention to my belayer.
A grigri can have it's cam release if it hits up against the first quickdraw/piece of gear.
Don't blame the lack of an auto-blocking belay device.
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
May 13, 2010, 3:07 PM
Post #19 of 38
(11984 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
acorneau wrote: kjaking wrote: It was a combination of away from the cliff and letting out rope when he did end up at the first piece, so at least an autolocker would have stopped me at the first piece. I know the mistake I made, I just wasn't paying that much attention to my belayer. A grigri can have it's cam release if it hits up against the first quickdraw/piece of gear. Don't blame the lack of an auto- blocking belay device.
The Gri Gri is an Auto Locking device. You can't use auto blocking devices to belay a leader.
|
|
|
|
|
Alpinisto
May 13, 2010, 3:33 PM
Post #21 of 38
(11961 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 11, 2007
Posts: 118
|
acorneau wrote: johnwesely wrote: The Gri Gri is an Auto Locking device. You can't use auto blocking devices to belay a leader. Really? My Reverso3 is an auto-blocking belay device and I belay leaders all the time. Weird. 
Troo, the Rev3 is an auto-blocking device, but you're not using it in autoblock mode when you're belaying a leader.
At least, I hope to hell you're not... 
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
May 13, 2010, 3:48 PM
Post #23 of 38
(11943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
acorneau wrote: johnwesely wrote: The Gri Gri is an Auto Locking device. You can't use auto blocking devices to belay a leader. Really? My Reverso3 is an auto-blocking belay device and I belay leaders all the time. Weird.
I meant in the auto blocking mode. I apologize for being unclear.
|
|
|
|
|
kjaking
May 13, 2010, 4:34 PM
Post #24 of 38
(11922 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 13, 2009
Posts: 35
|
acorneau wrote: kjaking wrote: It was a combination of away from the cliff and letting out rope when he did end up at the first piece, so at least an autolocker would have stopped me at the first piece. I know the mistake I made, I just wasn't paying that much attention to my belayer. A grigri can have it's cam release if it hits up against the first quickdraw/piece of gear. Don't blame the lack of an auto- blocking belay device.
I'm not blaming it, I was just noting that it could have added a layer of protection. The fall happened in three stages:
1. Fell about 15feet due to pulling slack/being 6ish feet above my last peice.
2. Got to end of that slack, and yanked my belayer off the ground, about 7 feet of gentle braking.
3. When my belayer hit the first piece, he released his brake hand and let me free fall the last 6 feet to the ground.
Maybe a gri gri would have hit the first draw and been ineffective, but it might just prevent actually hitting the ground. I assumed that when my partner said "climb," everything was ok, but it obviously was not. Communication broke down, but all I can do is try to make things safer the next time.
|
|
|
|
|
marc801
May 13, 2010, 4:52 PM
Post #25 of 38
(11905 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806
|
kjaking wrote: acorneau wrote: kjaking wrote: It was a combination of away from the cliff and letting out rope when he did end up at the first piece, so at least an autolocker would have stopped me at the first piece. I know the mistake I made, I just wasn't paying that much attention to my belayer. A grigri can have it's cam release if it hits up against the first quickdraw/piece of gear. Don't blame the lack of an auto- blocking belay device. I'm not blaming it, I was just noting that it could have added a layer of protection. The fall happened in three stages: 1. Fell about 15feet due to pulling slack/being 6ish feet above my last peice. 2. Got to end of that slack, and yanked my belayer off the ground, about 7 feet of gentle braking. 3. When my belayer hit the first piece, he released his brake hand and let me free fall the last 6 feet to the ground. Maybe a gri gri would have hit the first draw and been ineffective, but it might just prevent actually hitting the ground. I assumed that when my partner said "climb," everything was ok, but it obviously was not. Communication broke down, but all I can do is try to make things safer the next time.
You saw the belay arrangement, but decided to climb anyway, thus you're incompetent as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
