Forums: Climbing Information: Technique & Training:
How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades?
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Technique & Training

Premier Sponsor:

 


aireq


Jul 19, 2010, 12:50 AM
Post #1 of 16 (2688 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 7, 2002
Posts: 43

How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades?
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I recently got back into climbing this year. In the past I've climbed as high as V4 (in the gym), but after coming back after a long break I was struggling with V1s and V2s. Now I'm back at V3s and working my way back up to V4s. However, in the years I've been climbing I've never been able to do a V5 or higher.

So what I'm wondering is how the required skills change as the grades increase. When a new climber is starting out with V0s and V1s they are mostly working on strength and the mental challenge of being up high on a wall. V2s and V3s also require strength but at that point technique becomes even more important.

How do the strength/technique curves continue up as the grades increase? For those of you that have worked your way up from V3-V6 did you feel that it was an improvement in strength or technique that was the key to moving forward? And was the ratio any different from V0-V2? I imagine at a certain point (V8+?) natural ability starts to overtake both.


jbone


Jul 19, 2010, 1:09 AM
Post #2 of 16 (2682 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 29, 2002
Posts: 461

Re: [aireq] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

What I learned in Hueco was....

Real bouldering doesn't start till V4.

Those problems rated V0-V3 are like pieces of routes that are doable without a rope.

When you start working V4's you start to see the "trick's" that come into play when bouldering. Those problems that try and define V4-16 are more and more intensive "trick" problems.

Where a rope route is like a jigsaw puzzle a bouldering problem(V4) is like one of those chinese puzzle's that require you to develop some "trick" to figure out.

Taking all that into consideration its all very simple.

All boulder problems are V4 and the ones you cannot send are V4+. This is bouldering distilled to its finest.

Good luck in your pursuit of V4 and have a great ride.


hyhuu


Jul 19, 2010, 6:30 AM
Post #3 of 16 (2621 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 25, 2001
Posts: 492

Re: [jbone] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm curious why do you call them "trick"? And my guess is that you prob think real rope climbing doesn't start until 5.12 also.

jbone wrote:
What I learned in Hueco was....

Real bouldering doesn't start till V4.

Those problems rated V0-V3 are like pieces of routes that are doable without a rope.

When you start working V4's you start to see the "trick's" that come into play when bouldering. Those problems that try and define V4-16 are more and more intensive "trick" problems.

Where a rope route is like a jigsaw puzzle a bouldering problem(V4) is like one of those chinese puzzle's that require you to develop some "trick" to figure out.

Taking all that into consideration its all very simple.

All boulder problems are V4 and the ones you cannot send are V4+. This is bouldering distilled to its finest.

Good luck in your pursuit of V4 and have a great ride.


suprasoup


Jul 19, 2010, 7:05 AM
Post #4 of 16 (2599 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 7, 2005
Posts: 309

Re: [jbone] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

jbone wrote:
What I learned in Hueco was....

Real bouldering doesn't start till V4.

Did someone jack your account jbone? Cause I find it difficult to imagine that kind of drivel coming out of your mouth.

Or maybe you've been spending too much time with the elitist pricks at Hueco....

Supra


johnwesely


Jul 19, 2010, 7:42 AM
Post #5 of 16 (2582 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 5343

Re: [suprasoup] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

suprasoup wrote:
jbone wrote:
What I learned in Hueco was....

Real bouldering doesn't start till V4.

Did someone jack your account jbone? Cause I find it difficult to imagine that kind of drivel coming out of your mouth.

Or maybe you've been spending too much time with the elitist pricks at Hueco....

Supra

At Hueco, the real elitist pricks don't start till v10.


jape


Jul 19, 2010, 8:27 AM
Post #6 of 16 (2548 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 21, 2009
Posts: 51

Re: [aireq] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

"in hard bouldering it pays to be really limber." Mike Paul

Perhaps the easiest way to get better, doesn't require any equipment, and you can do it watching TV....


lena_chita
Moderator

Jul 19, 2010, 9:28 AM
Post #7 of 16 (2520 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 5861

Re: [aireq] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

aireq wrote:
I recently got back into climbing this year. In the past I've climbed as high as V4 (in the gym), but after coming back after a long break I was struggling with V1s and V2s. Now I'm back at V3s and working my way back up to V4s. However, in the years I've been climbing I've never been able to do a V5 or higher.

So what I'm wondering is how the required skills change as the grades increase. When a new climber is starting out with V0s and V1s they are mostly working on strength and the mental challenge of being up high on a wall. V2s and V3s also require strength but at that point technique becomes even more important.

How do the strength/technique curves continue up as the grades increase? For those of you that have worked your way up from V3-V6 did you feel that it was an improvement in strength or technique that was the key to moving forward? And was the ratio any different from V0-V2? I imagine at a certain point (V8+?) natural ability starts to overtake both.

I don't think you will get a meaningful answer to your question of "technique and strength curves" because it is too vague to the point of being meaningless.

Answer to everything -- it depends. We all know climbers who use excess strength to compensate for relative lack of technique and power through moves that could be done with a lot less effort. We all know delicate techy climbers who get stymied on a burly throw or a campus move. They both could be climbing V5. But those V5s would be completely different. And there is enough different problems out there that it is possible to do so.

The best I can come up with is that both strength and technique are important, and both increase/get refined as a climber progresses through the grades. Natural ability always plays a role in how easily someone improves, and how far they can improve without putting in too much effort. But since you can't change your natural ability, no point worrying about it, is there?

In the end, to get better you need to improve whatever your weakest spot is. To me, that means climbing a variety or routes and problems, instead of sticking only to something I am good at. And it also means refining technique, trying a variety of moves to get through the same spot, paying attention to the moves of climbers who successfully do the problems I am working on, and so on.


jomagam


Jul 19, 2010, 10:14 AM
Post #8 of 16 (2504 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 9, 2008
Posts: 364

Re: [aireq] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Skills required depend more on an individual climb or boulder problem than on how difficult they are. There are powerful V2-s and very technical V2 slabs. At some point you'll need to be pretty good at both departments, but especially strength. Just like there are no 5.15 slabs, I suspect there are few boulders over V10 that don't require tremendous strength.

And a word of warning: grades in the gym mean absolutely nothing.


younggun


Jul 19, 2010, 10:48 AM
Post #9 of 16 (2478 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 8, 2005
Posts: 31

Re: [jomagam] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Technique and core strength are always the most important at a lower level, v5 and under as it will give you the best ability to do complete a variety of problems with different styles. Just climb a lot and you will improve technique and strength.

I would climb in the gym as volume of movement is much easier to get inside versus the time and travel needed to be outside all the time. Inside is more efficient training.

Grades inside do matter as a comparison from gym to gym, but does not equal the grades you could complete on outside problems. They are kind of two different types of climbing. Even outdoor problems are subject to the area. That is part of why hueco is popular, a lot easier to rack up v-10's or better, not so at J-tree.


jbone


Jul 19, 2010, 12:00 PM
Post #10 of 16 (2448 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 29, 2002
Posts: 461

Re: [suprasoup] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

If you really knew me Supra you would know without a inkling of doubt that my comments don't pander to anyone.

As always I speak for myself and when others cannot relate I do not slow down to let them catch up. If you are one of those who cannot relate to another person's opinion then perhaps we should re-evaluate who is the elitist prick here.

Besides, who the hell moves to New Mexico?


jbone


Jul 19, 2010, 12:07 PM
Post #11 of 16 (2445 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 29, 2002
Posts: 461

Re: [hyhuu] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I suppose my jigsaw/chinese puzzle analogy completely went over your head?

Your kinda getting my point though with your 5.12 comment although real rope climbing starts for me when I tie in.

I do consider 5.12 to be the equivalent to V4 as far as "Trickiness" in the actual climbing although unless the crux is near the first moves its usually incomparable.

Whatever the grade, there are those who "Pull" through a problem and those who "Climb" through a problem. Obviously those who "Pull" will stand a greater chance of completely missing the "Trick" that makes that line unique.

We all aspire to be Climbers not Pullers, or so I thought.....


suprasoup


Jul 19, 2010, 10:50 PM
Post #12 of 16 (2358 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 7, 2005
Posts: 309

Re: [jbone] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jbone wrote:
Besides, who the hell moves to New Mexico?

The weather is nice. The people friendly. I can order a green chile anything whenever I want. The climbing community is wonderful. I can see the stars at night. And Hueco is only 4 hours away if I ever decided to climb there again.

As to the rest...Believe what you want and climb however you choose to.


zeke_sf


Jul 19, 2010, 11:40 PM
Post #13 of 16 (2340 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730

Re: [suprasoup] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

[voice over]The bromance is clearly over between these two. Let's move on to our next hardman connection...[/voice over]


suprasoup


Jul 19, 2010, 11:48 PM
Post #14 of 16 (2334 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 7, 2005
Posts: 309

Re: [zeke_sf] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

zeke_sf wrote:
[voice over]The bromance is clearly over between these two. Let's move on to our next hardman connection...[/voice over]

+1 Laugh


bustloose


Jul 20, 2010, 12:10 PM
Post #15 of 16 (2258 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 10, 2003
Posts: 489

Re: [aireq] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

the "it depends" answer is spot on.

the required skills don't change with the grade, they change with the boulder problem.

you simply cannot place more importance on technique or power at any point in the climbing curve. you can argue that with better technique you don't need to be as strong, but without the power to pull the move, it doesn't matter how good your technique is. this very topic has been argued over many beers and many campfires, and i'll bet it always reaches pretty similar conclusions. Power is nothing without control, and there is no substitute for pure power.

if you find that you are more of a technician, then you will naturally gravitate to the harder problems that require precise footwork and balance. if you find that you are getting very strong you will probably start to gravitate to the harder problems that require you to clamp down on little holds and yank.

i have climbed all manner of problems all across the grade range, on all types of rock, and i promise you there are problems for you to find at every level that will challenge parts of your skill set that are weak as well as problems that will seem easy "for the grade"

jomagam
In reply to:
Just like there are no 5.15 slabs, I suspect there are few boulders over V10 that don't require tremendous strength.

now that is a sign of someone who hasn't seen much of the climbing world. There are in fact untold numbers of boulders over V10 that don't require tremendous strength. I have personally fallen off of at least 100 of them.

no 5.15 slabs eh? how about V13 slab (originally graded V14/15)
Banshousha:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KJ9PzHwEVo


(This post was edited by bustloose on Jul 20, 2010, 12:14 PM)


johnwesely


Jul 20, 2010, 12:20 PM
Post #16 of 16 (2247 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 5343

Re: [suprasoup] How do the required skills and abilities for boulding change with increasing grades? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

suprasoup wrote:
zeke_sf wrote:
[voice over]The bromance is clearly over between these two. Let's move on to our next hardman connection...[/voice over]

+1 Laugh

I will be your mentor/boyfriend now.


Forums : Climbing Information : Technique & Training

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook