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aireq
Jul 19, 2010, 7:50 AM
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I recently got back into climbing this year. In the past I've climbed as high as V4 (in the gym), but after coming back after a long break I was struggling with V1s and V2s. Now I'm back at V3s and working my way back up to V4s. However, in the years I've been climbing I've never been able to do a V5 or higher.
So what I'm wondering is how the required skills change as the grades increase. When a new climber is starting out with V0s and V1s they are mostly working on strength and the mental challenge of being up high on a wall. V2s and V3s also require strength but at that point technique becomes even more important.
How do the strength/technique curves continue up as the grades increase? For those of you that have worked your way up from V3-V6 did you feel that it was an improvement in strength or technique that was the key to moving forward? And was the ratio any different from V0-V2? I imagine at a certain point (V8+?) natural ability starts to overtake both.
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jbone
Jul 19, 2010, 8:09 AM
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What I learned in Hueco was....
Real bouldering doesn't start till V4.
Those problems rated V0-V3 are like pieces of routes that are doable without a rope.
When you start working V4's you start to see the "trick's" that come into play when bouldering. Those problems that try and define V4-16 are more and more intensive "trick" problems.
Where a rope route is like a jigsaw puzzle a bouldering problem(V4) is like one of those chinese puzzle's that require you to develop some "trick" to figure out.
Taking all that into consideration its all very simple.
All boulder problems are V4 and the ones you cannot send are V4+. This is bouldering distilled to its finest.
Good luck in your pursuit of V4 and have a great ride.
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hyhuu
Jul 19, 2010, 1:30 PM
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I'm curious why do you call them "trick"? And my guess is that you prob think real rope climbing doesn't start until 5.12 also.
jbone wrote: What I learned in Hueco was.... Real bouldering doesn't start till V4. Those problems rated V0-V3 are like pieces of routes that are doable without a rope. When you start working V4's you start to see the "trick's" that come into play when bouldering. Those problems that try and define V4-16 are more and more intensive "trick" problems. Where a rope route is like a jigsaw puzzle a bouldering problem(V4) is like one of those chinese puzzle's that require you to develop some "trick" to figure out. Taking all that into consideration its all very simple. All boulder problems are V4 and the ones you cannot send are V4+. This is bouldering distilled to its finest. Good luck in your pursuit of V4 and have a great ride. |
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suprasoup
Jul 19, 2010, 2:05 PM
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jbone wrote: What I learned in Hueco was.... Real bouldering doesn't start till V4.
Did someone jack your account jbone? Cause I find it difficult to imagine that kind of drivel coming out of your mouth.
Or maybe you've been spending too much time with the elitist pricks at Hueco....
Supra
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johnwesely
Jul 19, 2010, 2:42 PM
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suprasoup wrote: jbone wrote: What I learned in Hueco was.... Real bouldering doesn't start till V4. Did someone jack your account jbone? Cause I find it difficult to imagine that kind of drivel coming out of your mouth. Or maybe you've been spending too much time with the elitist pricks at Hueco.... Supra
At Hueco, the real elitist pricks don't start till v10.
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jape
Jul 19, 2010, 3:27 PM
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"in hard bouldering it pays to be really limber." Mike Paul
Perhaps the easiest way to get better, doesn't require any equipment, and you can do it watching TV....
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lena_chita
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Jul 19, 2010, 4:28 PM
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aireq wrote: I recently got back into climbing this year. In the past I've climbed as high as V4 (in the gym), but after coming back after a long break I was struggling with V1s and V2s. Now I'm back at V3s and working my way back up to V4s. However, in the years I've been climbing I've never been able to do a V5 or higher. So what I'm wondering is how the required skills change as the grades increase. When a new climber is starting out with V0s and V1s they are mostly working on strength and the mental challenge of being up high on a wall. V2s and V3s also require strength but at that point technique becomes even more important. How do the strength/technique curves continue up as the grades increase? For those of you that have worked your way up from V3-V6 did you feel that it was an improvement in strength or technique that was the key to moving forward? And was the ratio any different from V0-V2? I imagine at a certain point (V8+?) natural ability starts to overtake both.
I don't think you will get a meaningful answer to your question of "technique and strength curves" because it is too vague to the point of being meaningless.
Answer to everything -- it depends. We all know climbers who use excess strength to compensate for relative lack of technique and power through moves that could be done with a lot less effort. We all know delicate techy climbers who get stymied on a burly throw or a campus move. They both could be climbing V5. But those V5s would be completely different. And there is enough different problems out there that it is possible to do so.
The best I can come up with is that both strength and technique are important, and both increase/get refined as a climber progresses through the grades. Natural ability always plays a role in how easily someone improves, and how far they can improve without putting in too much effort. But since you can't change your natural ability, no point worrying about it, is there?
In the end, to get better you need to improve whatever your weakest spot is. To me, that means climbing a variety or routes and problems, instead of sticking only to something I am good at. And it also means refining technique, trying a variety of moves to get through the same spot, paying attention to the moves of climbers who successfully do the problems I am working on, and so on.
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jomagam
Jul 19, 2010, 5:14 PM
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Skills required depend more on an individual climb or boulder problem than on how difficult they are. There are powerful V2-s and very technical V2 slabs. At some point you'll need to be pretty good at both departments, but especially strength. Just like there are no 5.15 slabs, I suspect there are few boulders over V10 that don't require tremendous strength.
And a word of warning: grades in the gym mean absolutely nothing.
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younggun
Jul 19, 2010, 5:48 PM
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Technique and core strength are always the most important at a lower level, v5 and under as it will give you the best ability to do complete a variety of problems with different styles. Just climb a lot and you will improve technique and strength.
I would climb in the gym as volume of movement is much easier to get inside versus the time and travel needed to be outside all the time. Inside is more efficient training.
Grades inside do matter as a comparison from gym to gym, but does not equal the grades you could complete on outside problems. They are kind of two different types of climbing. Even outdoor problems are subject to the area. That is part of why hueco is popular, a lot easier to rack up v-10's or better, not so at J-tree.
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jbone
Jul 19, 2010, 7:00 PM
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If you really knew me Supra you would know without a inkling of doubt that my comments don't pander to anyone.
As always I speak for myself and when others cannot relate I do not slow down to let them catch up. If you are one of those who cannot relate to another person's opinion then perhaps we should re-evaluate who is the elitist prick here.
Besides, who the hell moves to New Mexico?
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jbone
Jul 19, 2010, 7:07 PM
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I suppose my jigsaw/chinese puzzle analogy completely went over your head?
Your kinda getting my point though with your 5.12 comment although real rope climbing starts for me when I tie in.
I do consider 5.12 to be the equivalent to V4 as far as "Trickiness" in the actual climbing although unless the crux is near the first moves its usually incomparable.
Whatever the grade, there are those who "Pull" through a problem and those who "Climb" through a problem. Obviously those who "Pull" will stand a greater chance of completely missing the "Trick" that makes that line unique.
We all aspire to be Climbers not Pullers, or so I thought.....
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suprasoup
Jul 20, 2010, 5:50 AM
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jbone wrote: Besides, who the hell moves to New Mexico?
The weather is nice. The people friendly. I can order a green chile anything whenever I want. The climbing community is wonderful. I can see the stars at night. And Hueco is only 4 hours away if I ever decided to climb there again.
As to the rest...Believe what you want and climb however you choose to.
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zeke_sf
Jul 20, 2010, 6:40 AM
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[voice over]The bromance is clearly over between these two. Let's move on to our next hardman connection...[/voice over]
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bustloose
Jul 20, 2010, 7:10 PM
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the "it depends" answer is spot on.
the required skills don't change with the grade, they change with the boulder problem.
you simply cannot place more importance on technique or power at any point in the climbing curve. you can argue that with better technique you don't need to be as strong, but without the power to pull the move, it doesn't matter how good your technique is. this very topic has been argued over many beers and many campfires, and i'll bet it always reaches pretty similar conclusions. Power is nothing without control, and there is no substitute for pure power.
if you find that you are more of a technician, then you will naturally gravitate to the harder problems that require precise footwork and balance. if you find that you are getting very strong you will probably start to gravitate to the harder problems that require you to clamp down on little holds and yank.
i have climbed all manner of problems all across the grade range, on all types of rock, and i promise you there are problems for you to find at every level that will challenge parts of your skill set that are weak as well as problems that will seem easy "for the grade"
jomagam
In reply to: Just like there are no 5.15 slabs, I suspect there are few boulders over V10 that don't require tremendous strength.
now that is a sign of someone who hasn't seen much of the climbing world. There are in fact untold numbers of boulders over V10 that don't require tremendous strength. I have personally fallen off of at least 100 of them.
no 5.15 slabs eh? how about V13 slab (originally graded V14/15)
Banshousha:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KJ9PzHwEVo
(This post was edited by bustloose on Jul 20, 2010, 7:14 PM)
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johnwesely
Jul 20, 2010, 7:20 PM
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suprasoup wrote: zeke_sf wrote: [voice over]The bromance is clearly over between these two. Let's move on to our next hardman connection...[/voice over] +1 
I will be your mentor/boyfriend now.
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