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using non dry rope on snow
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angeleyes


Jul 24, 2010, 11:24 PM
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using non dry rope on snow
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There's a coulier in the sierras in good condition I'm heading up soon with a buddy. It's possible on the way up that we might want to belay from a deadman in a few sections

I was thinking to take my 30m 10.2 non dry rope if possible for this. However I don't really know what happens when you get a non dry rope in the snow.

Does it rapidly soak up moisture get bigger and impossible to use, or loose its dynamic properties or?

I plan to buy a nice dry alpine rope just don't have the cash before this short trip.

thanks


(This post was edited by angeleyes on Jul 24, 2010, 11:25 PM)


skiclimb


Jul 25, 2010, 12:15 AM
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Re: [angeleyes] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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Nah it will be fine. It will get wet and heavier it won't swell and will work ok. wet ropes belay slightly differently but it's an easy adjustment.

Wet ropes are weaker but a 10.2 has plenty to spare.

Even supposed "dry" ropes get waterlogged eventually.


(This post was edited by skiclimb on Jul 25, 2010, 12:17 AM)


Bolter


Jul 25, 2010, 1:17 AM
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Re: [angeleyes] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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Snow and Ice climbing was being done for a long time before "Dry" treatment came around.


sittingduck


Jul 25, 2010, 4:28 AM
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Re: [angeleyes] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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angeleyes wrote:
There's a coulier in the sierras in good condition I'm heading up soon with a buddy. It's possible on the way up that we might want to belay from a deadman in a few sections

I was thinking to take my 30m 10.2 non dry rope if possible for this. However I don't really know what happens when you get a non dry rope in the snow.

Does it rapidly soak up moisture get bigger and impossible to use, or loose its dynamic properties or?

I plan to buy a nice dry alpine rope just don't have the cash before this short trip.

thanks

In my experience, ropes may freeze and become difficult to feed into any atc-style device. It is mildly ironic that the ridiculed rappel-8 works better than any atc-style device under cold and icy conditions.

I got tired of carrying heavy and bulky gear that never got used, so I do not bring deadmans anymore. It is possible to makeshift solutions if absolutely needed.

Summits are often covered in snow. Then I just dig my feet in, sit in the snow, and use the super fast hip-belay.


(This post was edited by sittingduck on Jul 25, 2010, 4:30 AM)


jaablink


Jul 25, 2010, 4:37 AM
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Re: [angeleyes] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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Depending on the temp. As the rope gets wet it freezes. This will create stiff spots and ice can buildup on the line. This will greatly effect the performance and handling of the line. I have used them before and in mild temps they were ok, but on colder and windy days they were a real pain in the ass. For about 150bucks you would not be disappointed if you went with a dry line instead.


jaablink


Jul 25, 2010, 5:07 AM
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Re: [Bolter] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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Bolter wrote:
Snow and Ice climbing was being done for a long time before "Dry" treatment came around.

Even back in the day they were tackling the problem of icing. It was not unheard of to use various types of waxes and oils to treat your rope in the early 1900 mountaineering expiditions.

Make no mistake, treatments have been around for much longer than you and I. We now have a much more effective and longer lasting dry treatment that do not need constant reapplying now, but its not a new thing.


angeleyes


Jul 25, 2010, 9:17 PM
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thanks for the replies okay I decided to eat top ramen for a week and managed to pick up a 25m dry short for $65 :-D

That will get me buy for stuff like this, and give me time to decide on what a nice 50m would be to buy for alpine.

the potential waterlogged heavy rope is what tipped the scales hehe.


DoctorSalt


Aug 9, 2010, 3:06 PM
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Re: [angeleyes] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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Correct me if I'm wrong/misguided, but isn't it possible to dry treat a (cleaned) non dry rope? I believe I saw some can of treatment stuff in some store some place


tomtom


Aug 10, 2010, 9:51 AM
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Re: [DoctorSalt] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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The treatments don't work very well.


dingus


Aug 10, 2010, 9:58 AM
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Re: [tomtom] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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Just keep in mind its a Sierra couloir, in summer, we are talking about here, not the North Face of the Eiger.

A (post edit - NON)-dry rope will stay mostly dry in gullies when the snow is frozen or given over to ice... for the duration of the climb.

I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought (but see you already got an alpine shorty/dry to use, problem doubly solved)

Rain is the wet maker.

DMT


(This post was edited by dingus on Aug 10, 2010, 11:09 AM)


olderic


Aug 10, 2010, 11:04 AM
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Re: [dingus] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
Just keep in mind its a Sierra couloir, in summer, we are talking about here, not the North Face of the Eiger.

A dry rope will stay mostly dry in gullies when the snow is frozen or given over to ice... for the duration of the climb.

I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought (but see you already got an alpine shorty/dry to use, problem doubly solved)

Rain is the wet maker.

DMT

I think Dingus meant a non-dry rope in this context.


dingus


Aug 10, 2010, 11:09 AM
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Yes thank you. I did mean a non-treated rope.

DMT


trenchdigger


Aug 10, 2010, 11:20 AM
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Re: [dingus] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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And if the couloir is "in", you shouldn't be needing a deadman. Which route? Many of them have options for rock belays as well.


majid_sabet


Aug 10, 2010, 11:25 AM
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Re: [angeleyes] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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angeleyes wrote:
There's a coulier in the sierras in good condition I'm heading up soon with a buddy. It's possible on the way up that we might want to belay from a deadman in a few sections

I was thinking to take my 30m 10.2 non dry rope if possible for this. However I don't really know what happens when you get a non dry rope in the snow.

Does it rapidly soak up moisture get bigger and impossible to use, or loose its dynamic properties or?

I plan to buy a nice dry alpine rope just don't have the cash before this short trip.

thanks

I am writing a book on accidents and one of the chapters has a case with two dead climber trying to climbing on a hard rope in winter. Could not rap, could not jug, both died.

Go get a dry rope


tomtom


Aug 11, 2010, 8:41 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:
I am writing a book on accidents and one of the chapters has a case with two dead climber trying to climbing on a hard rope in winter.

Are these like zombie climbers?

I can't wait to read your chapter on deaths due to microfractures.


subantz


Aug 11, 2010, 9:22 AM
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Re: [angeleyes] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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angeleyes wrote:
There's a coulier in the sierras in good condition I'm heading up soon with a buddy. It's possible on the way up that we might want to belay from a deadman in a few sections

I was thinking to take my 30m 10.2 non dry rope if possible for this. However I don't really know what happens when you get a non dry rope in the snow.

Does it rapidly soak up moisture get bigger and impossible to use, or loose its dynamic properties or?

I plan to buy a nice dry alpine rope just don't have the cash before this short trip.

thanks
Where in the hell is it snowing its like 100 degrees outside?????


rock_fencer


Aug 11, 2010, 9:43 AM
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its not 100 degrees in places that aren't this god forsaken south we live in.


subantz


Aug 11, 2010, 10:01 AM
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rock_fencer wrote:
its not 100 degrees in places that aren't this god forsaken south we live in.
I hates the Humidity. These Southern Summers are plain old suckin. Unless you gots a Kayak to go paddling. Then we have some of the best rivers and creeks ever. If only we could get a few hurricanes.


angeleyes


Aug 15, 2010, 9:08 PM
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Re: [trenchdigger] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to]
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trenchdigger wrote:
And if the couloir is "in", you shouldn't be needing a deadman. Which route? Many of them have options for rock belays as well.

It was the hourglass couloir up to mt dade 40 degrees 1000 ft or so. Didn't end up being able to go, though I did hike in to see how it was. Fairly dry, just had a swath of snow up the center with scree on sides and base/top.

Didn't go up to far as snow, but with the lack of snow at the base the runout was not a nice one. I don't know if we would have belayed up or just kick steps and use axe.

thanks for the replies, that was all helpful.


(This post was edited by angeleyes on Aug 15, 2010, 9:09 PM)


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