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hardeight


Aug 5, 2010, 12:16 PM
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spikeddem


Aug 5, 2010, 12:37 PM
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Re: [hardeight] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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hardeight wrote:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

List an advantage of the knot over the EDK.

Edit: Full OP, thanks to jt512

hardeight wrote:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

Tie a figure 8 knot in the end of one rope leaving a long tail. Tie another figure eight knot in the tail of the second rope. to join the two ropes tie the tail of the first rope as a follow through figure eight into the second rope and the tail of the second rope as a follow through into the first.

It is like tying two ropes together with a double fisherman but you are using a figure 8 knot.. this image is as close as I can get

Of course you pull both figure eight knots together as you would with a double fisherman knot then if any tail is left over secure with overhand.


(This post was edited by spikeddem on Aug 5, 2010, 1:25 PM)


jt512


Aug 5, 2010, 12:38 PM
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Re: [hardeight] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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hardeight wrote:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

Tie a figure 8 knot in the end of one rope leaving a long tail. Tie another figure eight knot in the tail of the second rope. to join the two ropes tie the tail of the first rope as a follow through figure eight into the second rope and the tail of the second rope as a follow through into the first.

It is like tying two ropes together with a double fisherman but you are using a figure 8 knot.. this image is as close as I can get

Of course you pull both figure eight knots together as you would with a double fisherman knot then if any tail is left over secure with overhand.

Gumbies should not be innovating at all, much less inventing their own rappel knots.

Jay


csproul


Aug 5, 2010, 12:38 PM
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Re: [hardeight] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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hardeight wrote:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

Tie a figure 8 knot in the end of one rope leaving a long tail. Tie another figure eight knot in the tail of the second rope. to join the two ropes tie the tail of the first rope as a follow through figure eight into the second rope and the tail of the second rope as a follow through into the first.

It is like tying two ropes together with a double fisherman but you are using a figure 8 knot.. this image is as close as I can get

Of course you pull both figure eight knots together as you would with a double fisherman knot then if any tail is left over secure with overhand.
Looks like a good way to get a knot stuck in a crack. What advantage does this have over a EDK, a retraced figure-8, or even a double fisherman?


(This post was edited by csproul on Aug 5, 2010, 12:39 PM)


jt512


Aug 5, 2010, 12:38 PM
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Re: [spikeddem] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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spikeddem wrote:
hardeight wrote:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

List an advantage of the knot over the EDK.

That's an easy one. It's untested, and therefore adds excitement to the rappel.

Jay


boymeetsrock


Aug 5, 2010, 12:41 PM
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Re: [jt512] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
hardeight wrote:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

Tie a figure 8 knot in the end of one rope leaving a long tail. Tie another figure eight knot in the tail of the second rope. to join the two ropes tie the tail of the first rope as a follow through figure eight into the second rope and the tail of the second rope as a follow through into the first.

It is like tying two ropes together with a double fisherman but you are using a figure 8 knot.. this image is as close as I can get

Of course you pull both figure eight knots together as you would with a double fisherman knot then if any tail is left over secure with overhand.

Gumbies should not be innovating at all, much less inventing their own rappel knots.

Jay

Please site your sources.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;


hardeight


Aug 5, 2010, 12:42 PM
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johnwesely


Aug 5, 2010, 12:45 PM
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Re: [hardeight] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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hardeight wrote:
An EDK should not be even mentioned as an option to tie in any forum. The knot is death.

T0, you just blew it.


boymeetsrock


Aug 5, 2010, 12:46 PM
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Re: [hardeight] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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Might I suggest you do a search of this site for the many threads that have discussed the EDK as a valid rappelling knot. Who knows, you might even find it in some other sources as well...


styndall


Aug 5, 2010, 12:47 PM
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Re: [hardeight] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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hardeight wrote:
An EDK should not be even mentioned as an option to tie in any forum. The knot is death.

The EDK is the best. Seriously, plenty strong and not likely to catch.


jt512


Aug 5, 2010, 12:53 PM
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Re: [boymeetsrock] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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boymeetsrock wrote:
jt512 wrote:
hardeight wrote:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

Tie a figure 8 knot in the end of one rope leaving a long tail. Tie another figure eight knot in the tail of the second rope. to join the two ropes tie the tail of the first rope as a follow through figure eight into the second rope and the tail of the second rope as a follow through into the first.

It is like tying two ropes together with a double fisherman but you are using a figure 8 knot.. this image is as close as I can get

Of course you pull both figure eight knots together as you would with a double fisherman knot then if any tail is left over secure with overhand.

Gumbies should not be innovating at all, much less inventing their own rappel knots.

Jay

Please site your sources.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

The concept of gumby innovation has been around a lot longer than that.

Climbsomething coins term "gumby innovation" (2003).
I add Gumby Innovation category to Gumby of the Year Awards (2004).

Jay

References:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...on%26quot%3B;#564637
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...on%26quot%3B;#627740


hardeight


Aug 5, 2010, 12:56 PM
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johnwesely


Aug 5, 2010, 12:59 PM
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Re: [hardeight] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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hardeight wrote:
Well I see this site has not changed much over the past 5 years.. Always flaming people and floating off the original topic. Planting the seeds of mistrust and objection to whatever is posted. It is a wonder anyone stays a member and if they do why they log on an post a question at all..

A question on this site receives the answer that it deserves more often than not. You came up with some crazy huge knot and acted like you just cured cancer and then disparaged the accepted knot out of ignorance.


jt512


Aug 5, 2010, 1:00 PM
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Re: [hardeight] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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hardeight wrote:
Well I see this site has not changed much over the past 5 years.. Always flaming people and floating off the original topic. Planting the seeds of mistrust and objection to whatever is posted. It is a wonder anyone stays a member and if they do why they log on an post a question at all..

Please file your complaint using the correct form.

Jay


johnwesely


Aug 5, 2010, 1:02 PM
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Re: [jt512] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:

The concept of gumby innovation has been around a lot longer than that.

Climbsomething coins term "gumby innovation" (2003).
I add Gumby Innovation category to Gumby of the Year Awards (2004).

Jay

References:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...on%26quot%3B;#564637
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...on%26quot%3B;#627740

Jay, you missed your calling as a librarian.


spikeddem


Aug 5, 2010, 1:03 PM
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Re: [hardeight] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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hardeight wrote:
Well I see this site has not changed much over the past 5 years.. Always flaming people and floating off the original topic. Planting the seeds of mistrust and objection to whatever is posted. It is a wonder anyone stays a member and if they do why they log on an post a question at all..

In reply to:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

I mean, you didn't pause at all after writing that last sentence I quoted and think "oh...hmm."?


jt512


Aug 5, 2010, 1:06 PM
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Re: [spikeddem] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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spikeddem wrote:
hardeight wrote:
Well I see this site has not changed much over the past 5 years.. Always flaming people and floating off the original topic. Planting the seeds of mistrust and objection to whatever is posted. It is a wonder anyone stays a member and if they do why they log on an post a question at all..

In reply to:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

I mean, you didn't pause at all after writing that last sentence I quoted and think "oh...hmm."?

Reminds me of the guy I saw at Maple Canyon a couple weeks ago who ties in with a slip knot.

Jay


welle


Aug 5, 2010, 1:10 PM
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Re: [hardeight] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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hardeight wrote:
An EDK should not be even mentioned as an option to tie in any forum. The knot is death.

Why not do some research online? Plenty of tests out there that have proven that flat overhand with sufficient tails is as strong as any other knot. AMGA guides use it. I am so tired of arguing with my climbing partners about EDK it gets a bit ridiculous. Please stop spreading false info, and if you are so unsure maybe hire a guide to pick on collective wisdom...


(This post was edited by welle on Aug 5, 2010, 1:14 PM)


johnwesely


Aug 5, 2010, 1:14 PM
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Re: [welle] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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Dang, we didn't quote the OP.


jt512


Aug 5, 2010, 1:17 PM
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Re: [johnwesely] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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johnwesely wrote:
Dang, we didn't quote the OP.

Browser cache to the rescue:

hardeight wrote:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

Tie a figure 8 knot in the end of one rope leaving a long tail. Tie another figure eight knot in the tail of the second rope. to join the two ropes tie the tail of the first rope as a follow through figure eight into the second rope and the tail of the second rope as a follow through into the first.

It is like tying two ropes together with a double fisherman but you are using a figure 8 knot.. this image is as close as I can get

Of course you pull both figure eight knots together as you would with a double fisherman knot then if any tail is left over secure with overhand.


johnwesely


Aug 5, 2010, 1:19 PM
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Re: [jt512] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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I figured you would be able to find it somehow.


vegastradguy


Aug 5, 2010, 2:11 PM
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Re: [spikeddem] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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I've actually seen this knot used- some gumby used it because they didn't know how to tie a fishermans knot. The fucking knot was literally two feet long- I cant believe it didn't get stuck.

A class on proper knots for rappel was promptly given.


jakedatc


Aug 5, 2010, 3:14 PM
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Re: [jt512] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
boymeetsrock wrote:
jt512 wrote:
hardeight wrote:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

Tie a figure 8 knot in the end of one rope leaving a long tail. Tie another figure eight knot in the tail of the second rope. to join the two ropes tie the tail of the first rope as a follow through figure eight into the second rope and the tail of the second rope as a follow through into the first.

It is like tying two ropes together with a double fisherman but you are using a figure 8 knot.. this image is as close as I can get

Of course you pull both figure eight knots together as you would with a double fisherman knot then if any tail is left over secure with overhand.

Gumbies should not be innovating at all, much less inventing their own rappel knots.

Jay

Please site your sources.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

The concept of gumby innovation has been around a lot longer than that.

Climbsomething coins term "gumby innovation" (2003).
I add Gumby Innovation category to Gumby of the Year Awards (2004).

Jay

References:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...on%26quot%3B;#564637
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...on%26quot%3B;#627740

ha.. should bring the gumby awards back.


bill413


Aug 5, 2010, 4:19 PM
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Re: [jt512] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
spikeddem wrote:
hardeight wrote:
Well I see this site has not changed much over the past 5 years.. Always flaming people and floating off the original topic. Planting the seeds of mistrust and objection to whatever is posted. It is a wonder anyone stays a member and if they do why they log on an post a question at all..

In reply to:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

I mean, you didn't pause at all after writing that last sentence I quoted and think "oh...hmm."?

Reminds me of the guy I saw at Maple Canyon a couple weeks ago who ties in with a slip knot.

Jay

That makes it much easier to untie, right?


trenchdigger


Aug 5, 2010, 4:26 PM
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Re: [jt512] Double figure 8 knots for rappel [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
spikeddem wrote:
hardeight wrote:
I have used this method many times in the past but it is funny how I have not seen it posted anywhere..

List an advantage of the knot over the EDK.

That's an easy one. It's untested, and therefore adds excitement to the rappel.

Jay

A gumby innovation indeed, but c'mon Jay, do you really need to pull test this to get a rough idea of whether or not this would be strong enough to rap on. This isn't exactly rocket science (or multivariate statistics).

What the OP ended up with be about the same strength as a simple figure-8 bend, take at least twice as long to tie/untie, and have an extra knot to make it more likely to get stuck when pulled. Perhaps it provides some statistical improvement in safety if you're an idiot and regularly screw up tying the figure-8 bend (I mean, it is a really complex knot, right?). But if that's not the case, you're probably better off just sticking with the figure-8 bend or, if you prefer, the EDK.

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