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cuppabrew


Aug 20, 2010, 1:33 PM
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Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC
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I'm a NC climber with my sights set high on a big slab climb at a remote climbing destination in western NC called Laurel Knob. I've climbed slab before in NC at the rather infamous Stone mountain but am yet to take a lead fall on slab. Due to the high runout nature of the route (Groover) I am looking to do, I'd like to have a few practice falls under my belt and was considering doing these at Stone mountain this fall on a training trip there (stone being much closer a drive for me). I recently read Arno's "The Rock Warrior's Way" where he describes building up to taking lead falls (top rope, short lead fall, moderate lead fall, large-ish lead fall) - but is there a trick to falling on slab? I've heard 'jump out' and I've heard 'lay down' and the joking (I think) 'turn and run down' - what do you more experienced folk think?

-Jason


kachoong


Aug 20, 2010, 1:42 PM
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Honestly... I can't think of anything worse than taking practice falls on slab. If you truly slip on hard slab you usually don't have time to turn around. Just make sure the rope stays away from your ankles.


wonderwoman


Aug 20, 2010, 1:46 PM
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Re: [kachoong] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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kachoong wrote:
Honestly... I can't think of anything worse than taking practice falls on slab. If you truly slip on hard slab you usually don't have time to turn around. Just make sure the rope stays away from your ankles.

good advice.


irregularpanda


Aug 20, 2010, 1:46 PM
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Re: [cuppabrew] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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I don't have my copy of the rock warriors way in front of me, but if I remember correctly, Arno says something along the lines of:

"I don't recommend taking slab falls intentionally"

This is for obvious reasons.
1) you will lose skin
2) your shoe will probably catch on a nubbin and either flip you over backwards or sprain your ankle
3) or worse
4) ledges are a huge concern on slabs, because if you even hit the tiniest crimp with your foot, that's still gonna treat your fall like a ledge.
5) it's fucking terrifying.

Good luck dude, I don't mean to piss in your cheerios, slab can be pretty fun sometimes. Reach for the stars and all that nonsense. Maybe you should be looking into high quality slab routes of similar grade in order to practice, instead of falling. One way to do this might be to climb slab routes that are the same grade as your goal, but with successively longer runouts.

I say this because I wouldn't recommend training for falls on slab either.


csproul


Aug 20, 2010, 1:57 PM
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Re: [cuppabrew] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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Having climbed pretty extensively at Stone, Laurel Knob, and a host of other pure slab areas around the country, I can tell you that practicing slab falls is a bad idea. Just don't fall. It's not so bad if the fall is short and you don't begin to slide. You can kind of "run" down the slab until the rope catches you, or stay on your feet and slide a short ways. I've never taken the long fall on slab because I generally climb within my limits while slab climbing unless I know there is going to be good pro near the hard parts. I have however belayed and witnessed long falls on slab and they can be pretty nasty. BTW, Goover protects ok (better than most Stone routes), and and if you actually think you might fall on a 5.7 like Groover...you probably shouldn't be on it.


rtwilli4


Aug 20, 2010, 2:04 PM
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Re: [cuppabrew] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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Well, first of all, there is no such thing as a "practice fall." You either fall or you don't. I see what you mean though. Falling at Stone is a bit less of a situation than what a fall at LK could turn into.

That said, a slab fall is scary and dangerous and you should never do it on purpose. Best thing to do, and I think Arno would agree, is to get up on Groover with the idea that the climb is well within your limits. You should be focusing all of your attention on doing the movements correctly and getting good contact with the rock.

I got a little cocky on my first trip to Stone and fell/slid about 40 feet down one of the 10s above the tree ledge. It sucked, but I ended up being OK because I was relaxed about it and didn't freeze up and panic. I've since taken a few more similar bouldering falls that turned out no worse.

The key is that you have to stay relaxed and balanced. If you tense up, you'll stand up, and fall backwards into a tumble that could turn you inside out.

When you come off, try not to move your body too much. Don't stand up, don't lay down, and certainly don't try to turn around and run... that is just not gonna happen.

Stay in your basic slab climbing position but lean forward an inch or two. This takes just a bit of weight off your feet, letting them slide. If you stand up too much, you'll transfer weight onto your feet, they'll stop sliding, and you'll flip. While you're sliding, try to pat the rock with your hands to keep them, and your face, from grinding on the rock. This is pretty hard and I failed to do it correctly so I took some skin off my palms but I was climbing again after about 10 days. Better to scrape the skin off your hands than it is to flip over backwards so even sliding on your hands isn't such a bad thing (but it does suck). You don't use your hands at Stone so it doesn't really matter. I got back up and finished the pitch after I fell, leaving bloody hand prints on the granite.

If you do it right, you'll need a resole, a new set of boxers, and of course another slab to wear them on.


sspssp


Aug 20, 2010, 2:34 PM
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Re: [cuppabrew] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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I'm not familiar with the slabs in NC.

If the slab is smooth enough, a short practice fall wouldn't be a big deal. Say on toprope (or equivalent) climb a few feet up to get some slack and slide back down.

The turn and run can work for a while, but when it fails, it get ugly. I don't advise.

If I am worried about a slab fall, I wear kneepads and long pants (and I have thought about trying to wear leather wrist cuffs, but haven't actually).

As always, when leading, try to keep the rope position so it won't flip you. If you slide on a slab, I would try and stay facing the rock.

My longest slab fall was ~30+ feet. Outside of some abrasion to the palms of my hands (the reason I've thought about leather cuffs), no damage (well, my shoes did indeed need a resole), but it was a slick, smooth slab (Yosemite apron).


(This post was edited by sspssp on Aug 20, 2010, 2:37 PM)


johnwesely


Aug 20, 2010, 2:39 PM
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Re: [cuppabrew] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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Everyone else has already said this, but I will chime in anyways to help Bring the Noise. You probably don't want to fall during the run out on Groover. If you think there is a chance you might epic, Seconds may be a better option for you, as it has bolted belays from top to bottom and lacks an 80 foot run out. Good luck with your climb and make sure you post back afterwards.


cuppabrew


Aug 20, 2010, 2:39 PM
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Re: [rtwilli4] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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I appreciate the advice everyone - I duly understand that part of climbing is, as my climbing partner says, "just a matter of pulling your balls out of your back pocket and doing it" but Laurel, while dreamily enticing, has a different edge of risk to it than other local crags where there are rappel options and NOT a 3 hour hike out. I'm glad to hear the pro is better than the reports say - any specific advice there?

As for the specific falling technique, I broke it down to: pat the rock, careful with the toes/heels not to flip. Thanks for that, really, although I doubt I will remember it in that (hopefully no longer than) one second event.


cuppabrew


Aug 20, 2010, 2:49 PM
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Re: [johnwesely] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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I have considered Seconds but figured it was a toss up between: climbing runout on an easier grade and climbing sort of runout on a harder grade. Any thoughts - how the two climbs compare?


rtwilli4


Aug 20, 2010, 3:17 PM
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Re: [cuppabrew] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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I haven't done those routes but might be on seconds in a few weeks.

But you are right... you won't remember all that stuff when the time comes. There is one thing to remember... don't panic, relax. Concentrate on the contact with the rock. Trust your ability. This will help your climbing, and if you do fall, it will affect how you fall as well. Climbing in a tense hissy fit will not only make you fall, but it will carry over into the fall which is how people get hurt, even in 5 foot falls.

I was so freakin' scared before I was about to fall my first time on slab. I went off route and knew it, but I was on terrain so blank that I was afraid to even move my eyeballs.

I remember saying to myself "Ok, you're either going to fall or your not. Either way, you're better off if you relax... BREATHE." So that is what I did. As I was trying to traverse back onto the route I came off but I was calm. My body took over from there.

It's the same as falling on vertical stuff. I teach people how to lead a lot and usually a fall on a beginner sport climb can be ugly. What I tell my clients about falling is to "look down, stay calm. Give your brain the information it needs by looking down and breathing and your body will do the rest."

And of course... if you really are worried about having an epic then LK is not the place to have one. Groover ain't going anywhere. Get solid before you go out there so that when you do the route it will be fun. Talking about scary run-out climbing after the fact is one thing, but shitting yourself on the climb is just not fun, even if you don't fall.

More than likely you are solid and you're just worried. Rightfully so... you live in NC.


climbingaggie03


Aug 20, 2010, 3:22 PM
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Re: [sspssp] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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sspssp wrote:
I'm not familiar with the slabs in NC.

If the slab is smooth enough, a short practice fall wouldn't be a big deal. Say on toprope (or equivalent) climb a few feet up to get some slack and slide back down.

The turn and run can work for a while, but when it fails, it get ugly. I don't advise.

If I am worried about a slab fall, I wear kneepads and long pants (and I have thought about trying to wear leather wrist cuffs, but haven't actually).

As always, when leading, try to keep the rope position so it won't flip you. If you slide on a slab, I would try and stay facing the rock.

My longest slab fall was ~30+ feet. Outside of some abrasion to the palms of my hands (the reason I've thought about leather cuffs), no damage (well, my shoes did indeed need a resole), but it was a slick, smooth slab (Yosemite apron).

Did you fall on marginal? I like that route, but it has some good sized slides if you get it wrong.


sspssp


Aug 20, 2010, 3:30 PM
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Re: [climbingaggie03] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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climbingaggie03 wrote:
sspssp wrote:
My longest slab fall was ~30+ feet. Outside of some abrasion to the palms of my hands (the reason I've thought about leather cuffs), no damage (well, my shoes did indeed need a resole), but it was a slick, smooth slab (Yosemite apron).

Did you fall on marginal? I like that route, but it has some good sized slides if you get it wrong.

I was somewhere "wandering" above the Monday morning slab (point beyond?). Fortunately, I had the good sense to fall on a bolt that had been replaced, instead of some of the rusty quarter inchers I had also clipped.


jmeizis


Aug 20, 2010, 8:15 PM
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Re: [cuppabrew] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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I took a 30 ft. fall on a slab. I wouldn't recommend it. It looked like I got dragged down the street. It hurt to take a shower for most of the week. I lived though. I'd be less worried about breaking/twisting your ankle (unless there's a largish ledge) and more worried about looking like a burn victim if you fall. It doesn't matter what technique you think you'll employ because when that foot popping off surprises you you'll have lost half your forearm skin before you have a chance to decide what to do.


marc801


Aug 20, 2010, 9:18 PM
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Re: [cuppabrew] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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cuppabrew wrote:
I'm a NC climber with my sights set high on a big slab climb at a remote climbing destination in western NC called Laurel Knob. I've climbed slab before in NC at the rather infamous Stone mountain but am yet to take a lead fall on slab. Due to the high runout nature of the route (Groover) I am looking to do, I'd like to have a few practice falls under my belt and was considering doing these at Stone mountain this fall on a training trip there (stone being much closer a drive for me). I recently read Arno's "The Rock Warrior's Way" where he describes building up to taking lead falls (top rope, short lead fall, moderate lead fall, large-ish lead fall) - but is there a trick to falling on slab? I've heard 'jump out' and I've heard 'lay down' and the joking (I think) 'turn and run down' - what do you more experienced folk think?
What everyone has told you is: falling on run-out slab is something to be avoided; the pro will keep you from getting killed (maybe) but is no guarantee that you won't get hurt; practicing is just as bad as an actual fall; do harder but better protected stuff first until you know you won't fall on the run-out grade you're contemplating.


jt512


Aug 20, 2010, 9:48 PM
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Re: [marc801] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
cuppabrew wrote:
I'm a NC climber with my sights set high on a big slab climb at a remote climbing destination in western NC called Laurel Knob. I've climbed slab before in NC at the rather infamous Stone mountain but am yet to take a lead fall on slab. Due to the high runout nature of the route (Groover) I am looking to do, I'd like to have a few practice falls under my belt and was considering doing these at Stone mountain this fall on a training trip there (stone being much closer a drive for me). I recently read Arno's "The Rock Warrior's Way" where he describes building up to taking lead falls (top rope, short lead fall, moderate lead fall, large-ish lead fall) - but is there a trick to falling on slab? I've heard 'jump out' and I've heard 'lay down' and the joking (I think) 'turn and run down' - what do you more experienced folk think?
What everyone has told you is: falling on run-out slab is something to be avoided; the pro will keep you from getting killed (maybe) but is no guarantee that you won't get hurt; practicing is just as bad as an actual fall; do harder but better protected stuff first until you know you won't fall on the run-out grade you're contemplating.

OP, this the answer you should be listening to.

Jay


dangleme


Aug 21, 2010, 7:23 AM
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Re: [jt512] Practicing Slab Falls for Laurel Knob, NC [In reply to]
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Jay is right.

And wear a helmet. I've actaully seen a guy flip onto his back falling on a slab with no helmet. Trust me ... you don't want to be that guy.


justroberto


Aug 21, 2010, 8:40 AM
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The two significantly runout parts on Groover (we did the alternate version listed in the new guide) will be nothing like what you'll find at Stone. I never found the "3 inch quartz pocket" alluded to in the guidebook, so the next solid gear is maybe 100 feet above and 30 feet to the right of your last piece in the crack. At that point, the climbing is mellower, but a fall is nothing you can possibly prepare for and will likely result in you getting medevac'd out.

Everything I've found says that seconds is better protected, and even has bolts, so if you're comfortable on the old-school "5.8+" that might be easier on your head.


curt


Aug 22, 2010, 9:24 PM
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cuppabrew wrote:
I'm a NC climber with my sights set high on a big slab climb at a remote climbing destination in western NC called Laurel Knob. I've climbed slab before in NC at the rather infamous Stone mountain but am yet to take a lead fall on slab...

Good, don't.

Curt


notapplicable


Aug 22, 2010, 9:43 PM
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jt512 wrote:
marc801 wrote:
cuppabrew wrote:
I'm a NC climber with my sights set high on a big slab climb at a remote climbing destination in western NC called Laurel Knob. I've climbed slab before in NC at the rather infamous Stone mountain but am yet to take a lead fall on slab. Due to the high runout nature of the route (Groover) I am looking to do, I'd like to have a few practice falls under my belt and was considering doing these at Stone mountain this fall on a training trip there (stone being much closer a drive for me). I recently read Arno's "The Rock Warrior's Way" where he describes building up to taking lead falls (top rope, short lead fall, moderate lead fall, large-ish lead fall) - but is there a trick to falling on slab? I've heard 'jump out' and I've heard 'lay down' and the joking (I think) 'turn and run down' - what do you more experienced folk think?
What everyone has told you is: falling on run-out slab is something to be avoided; the pro will keep you from getting killed (maybe) but is no guarantee that you won't get hurt; practicing is just as bad as an actual fall; do harder but better protected stuff first until you know you won't fall on the run-out grade you're contemplating.

OP, this the answer you should be listening to.

Jay

I'm gonna + 2 this and add another reason to opt for the harder stuff.

5.7 - 5.8 NC slabs are usually covered in knobs, dishes and big crystals which are great for climbing up but turn in to your worst nightmare in a fall. Just like most other styles of climbing, the harder slab routes are often "cleaner" and threrefor safer to fall on.

That of course is just a general rule. In a perfect world, Curts answer is the right one.


ClimbClimb


Aug 23, 2010, 11:07 AM
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notapplicable wrote:
I'm gonna + 2 this and add another reason to opt for the harder stuff.

+3 - what everyone else said.

Remember: "Friends don't let friends climb slab"



If you really want to "practice slab falls", you could do it without going to the crag. Just have a friend tie you to his bumper and drive down the street, dragging you along, then stop and have him hit your ankle with a hammer.


horseshoe


Aug 23, 2010, 8:39 PM
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Another consideration for Laurel Knob is the decent. Seconds has a relatively straight forward rappel. Groover doesn't--and it is harder to bail from if the weather should turn on you.
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malcolm777b


Aug 27, 2010, 12:12 PM
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ClimbClimb wrote:
If you really want to "practice slab falls", you could do it without going to the crag. Just have a friend tie you to his bumper and drive down the street, dragging you along, then stop and have him hit your ankle with a hammer.

I'll have to remember this one!


I_do


Aug 28, 2010, 9:52 AM
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rtwilli4 wrote:
Well, first of all, there is no such thing as a "practice fall." You either fall or you don't. I see what you mean though. Falling at Stone is a bit less of a situation than what a fall at LK could turn into.

That said, a slab fall is scary and dangerous and you should never do it on purpose. Best thing to do, and I think Arno would agree, is to get up on Groover with the idea that the climb is well within your limits. You should be focusing all of your attention on doing the movements correctly and getting good contact with the rock.

I got a little cocky on my first trip to Stone and fell/slid about 40 feet down one of the 10s above the tree ledge. It sucked, but I ended up being OK because I was relaxed about it and didn't freeze up and panic. I've since taken a few more similar bouldering falls that turned out no worse.

The key is that you have to stay relaxed and balanced. If you tense up, you'll stand up, and fall backwards into a tumble that could turn you inside out.

When you come off, try not to move your body too much. Don't stand up, don't lay down, and certainly don't try to turn around and run... that is just not gonna happen.

Stay in your basic slab climbing position but lean forward an inch or two. This takes just a bit of weight off your feet, letting them slide. If you stand up too much, you'll transfer weight onto your feet, they'll stop sliding, and you'll flip. While you're sliding, try to pat the rock with your hands to keep them, and your face, from grinding on the rock. This is pretty hard and I failed to do it correctly so I took some skin off my palms but I was climbing again after about 10 days. Better to scrape the skin off your hands than it is to flip over backwards so even sliding on your hands isn't such a bad thing (but it does suck). You don't use your hands at Stone so it doesn't really matter. I got back up and finished the pitch after I fell, leaving bloody hand prints on the granite.

If you do it right, you'll need a resole, a new set of boxers, and of course another slab to wear them on.

You repeatedly fell from the top out of this bear?



You should wrestle kittens, they have an easier top out.


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