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lumineferusother
Aug 22, 2010, 4:35 AM
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So I have a few alpine climbs under my belt. My next step is waterfall/vertical ice. I have always wondered though, how does one rap multi-pitch ice? It sounds silly to leave pro at ever "rap station" you set up...does one make one big as Abalakov and snake their climbing rope through it? That sounds like it would be a bitch to retrieve the rope with the friction from such a sharp angle within the anchor. Or does one just bring a shit ton of cord and rap off that slung through an Abalakov? I can't imagine that every ice climb in the world has a descent from the top where a rope isn't necessary...
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uni_jim
Aug 22, 2010, 5:10 AM
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you build your v-thread, hang your rope off the cord tied through the ice, and rappell. Pull your rope at the next station. simple.
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Colinhoglund
Aug 22, 2010, 5:12 AM
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I do not recommend the 'rope pull through abalakov' you'll get your rope stuck very soon! You might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later oh s%&*(t I got my rope stuck!
Sometimes in well used places there are rap bolts beside the route (ideal). The rest of the time one uses abalakovs tied through with cord. Leave one take one is a good rule, reduces tat at the top of popular routes.
That being said, each area has it's own ethic and style. Lots of stuff where I'm from has bolted stations since the rap tat would get obscene. Where it gets controversial is reusing abalakovs and leaving rings to prevent burning the cords.
The best advice I can give you is find some of the local gurus and ask them about your area's style.
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uni_jim
Aug 22, 2010, 5:12 AM
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leaving a bit of cord at a station isn't a big deal. If you prefer, leave a screw and a biner. Then tell me where you went for the weekend!
edit to say that this was in reference to the supposed "inconvenience" of leaving gear behind to rappell.
(This post was edited by uni_jim on Aug 22, 2010, 5:24 AM)
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uni_jim
Aug 22, 2010, 5:15 AM
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if there is a buildup of tat in the ice, be a chum and take a couple minutes to chop it out! If you leave a thread, pack two out!
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Colinhoglund
Aug 22, 2010, 5:15 AM
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I agree, but up in the Canadian Rockies you can have several dozen cords at each station. Hence, leave one take one.
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uni_jim
Aug 22, 2010, 5:21 AM
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Dude, I live in Jasper, I have seen what rockies ice can look like after a long weekend. Just do you part to help clean it up!
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Colinhoglund
Aug 22, 2010, 5:24 AM
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Dude, again agreed. Leave some take some.
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jaablink
Aug 22, 2010, 11:34 AM
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there is a way to rap off one screw and retrieve it from the next rap…but a v thread is much safer.
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 23, 2010, 11:23 PM
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here in the northeast USA super classics end up with fixed threads for much of the season. Sometimes made from climbing rope. obviously you check it out and add to it if you deem it nessicary. often when the ice is building fast threads can get covered up in a few days. Please do Not be a tool and put your backup screw in a spot where it slices through the threads inside the ice.... when threads bake out and are deemed unsafe you clean them and re use the cord on the next one you need to build. make sure that you know WTF you are doing when makeing threads. I prefer to always tie them with doubble fishermans so that they can be one leg of the belay or or clipped pro if you are climbing through. Totaly burns me when they are tied with an EDK and short tails..
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majid_sabet
Aug 23, 2010, 11:29 PM
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lumineferusother wrote: So I have a few alpine climbs under my belt. My next step is waterfall/vertical ice. I have always wondered though, how does one rap multi-pitch ice? It sounds silly to leave pro at ever "rap station" you set up...does one make one big as Abalakov and snake their climbing rope through it? That sounds like it would be a bitch to retrieve the rope with the friction from such a sharp angle within the anchor. Or does one just bring a shit ton of cord and rap off that slung through an Abalakov? I can't imagine that every ice climb in the world has a descent from the top where a rope isn't necessary...
you either use V bailout system or roll the rope around the ice screw and unscrew it buy reversing the direction of rope pull. I learned it from an expedition climber who rap from 7700 meter ice peak without leaving anything behind.
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squierbypetzl
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Aug 24, 2010, 1:12 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: you either use V bailout system or roll the rope around the ice screw and unscrew it buy reversing the direction of rope pull. I learned it from an expedition climber who rap from 7700 meter ice peak without leaving anything behind.
Wouldn't it be rather dangerous to have an ice screw flying down at you with the end of your rope?
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majid_sabet
Aug 24, 2010, 1:15 AM
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squierbypetzl wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you either use V bailout system or roll the rope around the ice screw and unscrew it buy reversing the direction of rope pull. I learned it from an expedition climber who rap from 7700 meter ice peak without leaving anything behind. Wouldn't it be rather dangerous to have an ice screw flying down at you with the end of your rope?
if I was you, I would worry about surviving the 3000 meter fall to bottom of ice fall rather than a silly ice screw falling on your head.
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squierbypetzl
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Aug 24, 2010, 1:41 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: squierbypetzl wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you either use V bailout system or roll the rope around the ice screw and unscrew it buy reversing the direction of rope pull. I learned it from an expedition climber who rap from 7700 meter ice peak without leaving anything behind. Wouldn't it be rather dangerous to have an ice screw flying down at you with the end of your rope? if I was you, I would worry about surviving the 3000 meter fall to bottom of ice fall rather than a silly ice screw falling on your head.
I was just saying it might be better to use the V method, not that your method doesn't have its place.
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stagg54
Aug 24, 2010, 1:50 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: you either use V bailout system or roll the rope around the ice screw and unscrew it buy reversing the direction of rope pull. I learned it from an expedition climber who rap from 7700 meter ice peak without leaving anything behind.
Rope vs sharp screw threads!
Sounds risky to me.
I'm sure it works, but I'd try every other alternative first.
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rangerrob
Aug 24, 2010, 1:44 PM
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Threading the rope right through the V-thread is a perfectly good method. You just have to know when you can do it and when you can't. First of all, the sharp angle in the back of the thread is made up of ice, so as soon as even a little fricition builds up, the the angle gets rounded off by the rope. if you make your threads correctly there is nothing the rope can get caught up on. The only thing you need to be careful of is doing it on wet ice. Your rope will freeze to the inside of the thread. This technique works great in nice cold, dry ice.
We rapped the Mini Moonflower this way when it was like a bazillion degrees below zero and it worked awesome, not a single piece of cord, rap ring, carabiner, screw left.
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reno
Aug 24, 2010, 7:13 PM
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Counting down the posts until someone tries to design the Texas Rope Trick for V-Threads.
In 10... 9... 8...
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carabiner96
Aug 24, 2010, 7:21 PM
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reno wrote: Counting down the posts until someone tries to design the Texas Rope Trick for V-Threads. In 10... 9... 8...
Oh, I do hope so.
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fresh
Aug 24, 2010, 8:57 PM
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reno wrote: Counting down the posts until someone tries to design the Texas Rope Trick for V-Threads. In 10... 9... 8...
2. affix lighter so that the burner is in contact with the ice
3. tie the end of the free 1/3 of the rope to the trigger
4. rappel
5. pull free end to turn on lighter
6. wait for it to melt out
7. ...
8. keep waiting
9. ...
10. ...profit?
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 25, 2010, 1:12 AM
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Ranger rob. Try that trick at the Lake on a sunny cold day when dark is approaching and you Will be epicing and spending the night on th cliff.... Super cold and dry ice you can run your rope through the hole but if its wet and cold you will freeze your rope into the ice. Heck< often at the lake you rope freezes to the ice while you are rapelling and it is a bear to get it unstuck and pulled. Run it through the thread like you suggest and odds are pretty good you will not be haveing fun.
Majids suggestion is a stupid as it gets. You can get seriously FCKin Killed ice climbing. It is no place for silly tricks. V threads work, They are bomber. Learn how to make bomber threads, carry extra cord and don't be afraid to leave a runner or 2 if you run out of cord. you life is worth 4 bucks.. It's just not worth $60.00
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tomtom
Aug 25, 2010, 4:17 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: squierbypetzl wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you either use V bailout system or roll the rope around the ice screw and unscrew it buy reversing the direction of rope pull. I learned it from an expedition climber who rap from 7700 meter ice peak without leaving anything behind. Wouldn't it be rather dangerous to have an ice screw flying down at you with the end of your rope? if I was you, I would worry about surviving the 3000 meter fall to bottom of ice fall rather than a silly ice screw falling on your head.
Looks like potential for dangerous MICROFRACTURES.
You can play with your own life, but don't sacrifice another with your ignorance.
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majid_sabet
Aug 25, 2010, 5:46 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: Ranger rob. Try that trick at the Lake on a sunny cold day when dark is approaching and you Will be epicing and spending the night on th cliff.... Super cold and dry ice you can run your rope through the hole but if its wet and cold you will freeze your rope into the ice. Heck< often at the lake you rope freezes to the ice while you are rapelling and it is a bear to get it unstuck and pulled. Run it through the thread like you suggest and odds are pretty good you will not be haveing fun. Majids suggestion is a stupid as it gets. You can get seriously FCKin Killed ice climbing. It is no place for silly tricks. V threads work, They are bomber. Learn how to make bomber threads, carry extra cord and don't be afraid to leave a runner or 2 if you run out of cord. you life is worth 4 bucks.. It's just not worth $60.00
The trick was invented by german ice climber years before you started sucking milk and just because you do not know it nor ever seen it, it does not mean its unsafe. A friend on mine used it in Pakistan to bail out of a 7700 meter peak and that's how I learn it. knowing extra trick does not kill people. spending time up on the wall trying to pull a rope(your only rope) when V method does not go as planned will kill you.
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jrathfon
Aug 25, 2010, 7:41 PM
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reno wrote: Counting down the posts until someone tries to design the Texas Rope Trick for V-Threads. In 10... 9... 8...
you could do the 1/3 rap length sling retrieval. thread v-thread with sling, tie one end of your rope to one side of the sling, put the other 2/3 of the rope through the sling on each side. rap on these two ropes, pull these, than pull the end tied to the sling.
course it's going to take 66% more raps to get down, but you a) won't lose any gear and b) leave no trace.
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rangerrob
Aug 28, 2010, 12:23 AM
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I agree vermont guy. I did mention the ice has to cold and dry. Trying to run the rope through a cold and wet thread surely will make an epic. That being said, it does work when you have the right conditions. I also wouldn't bother to try it on route with only two or three raps. When you have to do 10, 15, or even 20 rappels, it begins to make sense, again if the conditions at the thread are right.
RR
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gargrantuan
Aug 31, 2010, 10:37 PM
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uni_jim wrote: Dude, I live in Jasper, I have seen what rockies ice can look like after a long weekend. Just do you part to help clean it up!
LOL
No one climbs in Jasper.
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