Never actually tried sport multi before just trad, and it's almost always on a ledge.

What are some typical ways to setup the hanging belay while keeping things organized, rope tidy, and bolts not too crowded?

Something like at end of lead, clip into one bolt with sling, throw carabiner in other bolt attach with rope and clove. Throw up two draws and basically top rope second from your harness off the draws?

Seems like not much room for the second to clip when he arrives, though he wouldn't be there long if leading next pitch which is simplest.

Is it easiest to try and have the draws at about chest level, then flake the rope over the sling that anchors you to the bolt?

thank you

Another small thing is to position yourself right. If the next pitch starts off to the right, position yourself on the left hand side of the anchor, and vice versa. This way your second will be in the right position to start leading immediately when reaching the anchor.

How might one do this on a true hanging belay?

I don't see the anchor setup being any different from a non-hanging belay, except that you don't have a ledge to use for self-positioning, so you have to use gravity as best as you can.

what about ways to avoid being in each others way when you're both at the hanging belay, w/o one person having to uncomfortably try to stay off to one side while the other climber sets up the rap and so on?

what about ways to avoid being in each others way when you're both at the hanging belay, w/o one person having to uncomfortably try to stay off to one side while the other climber sets up the rap and so on?

I don't know of any tricks for this, besides using a short sling and a long sling in order to lean to one side. At least you can set up your rap while separated. But eventually, on of you has to go to the middle.

This really sucks if both of you are riding pigs.

1. carry a 120cm sling, 1 big locker, and 2 locker/nonlocker with think profile

2. climb route

3. at time either ... a. clip into chains/bolt with yr daisy/pas ... b. put a draw in the bolt and clip it and ask for take if yr pumped

4. set up a sliding X with the sling and biners ... big locker on the bottom of course ... no need for limiter knots ... you are climbing on bomber bolts or should be ... i don't clip the chains

5. clove into big locker

6. bring partner up

7. if they are leading then they can just take off .... always put a draw in one of the bolts and clip it to prevent a FF2

8. if youre gonna lead again ... they just put a locker through the anchor and clove hitch to this ... you flip the rope stack over ... and they put you on belay ... put a draw through the bolt ... and start climbing

simple ... lol

you can use 2 draws if you forget the anchor material ... just fig 8 or clove the 2 draws you set up for belay ... this works if yr swapping leads ... if yr always leading though youll need to take off each knot/draw one at a time (youll be hanging from 1 unlocked point unless u use yr daisy too) as your partner sets up .... or anchor on the chains initially for yourself ... or hope the bolts are big enough for all your draws (4 alttogheter)

setting up a sliding x is much faster as your partner doesnt have to muk around setting up their own anchor with their draws ... they just clip in with their own locker and clove ... just remember that each person should have the slings and biners

The methods mentioned previously using just the rope and draws are simpler and require less special material (120 cm sling, random lockers). It's also more redundant (a single 120 cm sling is not redundant).

Moreover, you say that there is no need for limiter knots, because the bolts are bomber. If you clip two bolts, you assume there is a chance of one of them failing (ignoring the overkill equalization factor). Yet, you say there is no need to tie limiter knots whose sole functions are to help out when a bolt fails.

Why the discrepancy?

the sliding X is not redundant only if the sling itself gets cut ... a single biner is not redundant ... but we use that for a belay ... a single rope is not redundant ... nor is the belay loop on your harness

the chances of any full strength part of your climbing system failing is basically zero ... which is why we dont all climb on double ropes

the chance of a bolt being rusted or being improperly put it is much greater than zero ... limiter knots are to limit the extention

...they actually reduce the strength of the sling to below full strength ...

on 2 bolts the extention of a sliding X should not pull the other bolt ... if it does i recommend not climbing at all in that area ... lol

which is why we build our anchors of 2 bolts ...

a sliding X is faster to use unless your swapping leads all the time ... and it makes the belay a lot cleaner

you can use 2 draws if you forget the anchor material ... just fig 8 or clove the 2 draws you set up for belay ... this works if yr swapping leads ... if yr always leading though youll need to take off each knot/draw one at a time (youll be hanging from 1 unlocked point unless u use yr daisy too) as your partner sets up .... or anchor on the chains initially for yourself ... or hope the bolts are big enough for all your draws (4 alttogheter)

setting up a sliding x is much faster as your partner doesnt have to muk around setting up their own anchor with their draws ... they just clip in with their own locker and clove ... just remember that each person should have the slings and biners

So yr arguin that a sliding x is not acceptable on bolts? Lol

i think u need to take a basic anchor course .... The only real problem with a sliding x is the extention on trad gear

if theres rockfall its WAY more likely to cut a 60 m rope than a 1.2 m sling at the belay

not only is a proper anchor setup faster on 2 bolts where there are no chains ... It creates less of a cluster fcuk ... And is more flexible

you can use 2 draws ... But how are you guys going to clip 2 bolts with 4 draws unless the bolt holea are alwaya big enough... Or figure out the sequence of who ties in when with 2 draws

I suppose it's a bit late to point out that the OP was asking how to manage hanging belays while on rappel.

is your tie in from the harness to the clove redundant, this is under tension ... if not then there is no point in redundancy in yr sliding x ... not on bolts ...

if yr worried about weak bolts the LAST thing you would want to do is anchor off quickdraws ... build a serene anchor, which you can with the sling and biners

using only 2 quickdraws ... if yr not swapping leads ... then at some point both climbers will be only on non locking biner unless they leash themselves in seperately in addition to the clove ... or you use lockers on the draws

Unless he edited the original post, I didn't read anything in his post that even hinted at rapping.