Typical mis-interpretation of the Gunks etiquette... Leader Priority is not a carte blanche to take over a top roped climb.
But if all they wanted was 20ft of 'your' route, and your climber was nearly at the top, was it worth getting worked up about?

TE

ooo.. the clusterfuck at the Maria vs Maria direct P1 anchor probably would have been a great photo.. that little stance is small enough with 1 party let alone 2.

Here's the setup:

We're a party of Three - 2 trad leaders - one with 30 years experience the other leader (me) with 7-8 years experience, finally 1 newbie with 6 days experience.

Trad leader with most experience leads a very popular 5.6 in the Gunks (frog's head) with the intention of setting up a TR for newbie to gain experience/confidence.

Leader 1 finishes route VERY quickly (it IS a 5.6), is lowered from anchor, gear is still in place.

Leader 2 is belaying TR for newbie climber, who is dealing with typical-newbie-climber issues BUT is climbing well and fairly quickly for a new climber.

Newbie climber is 3/4 the way up said route.

Meanwhile group of 3 walk up to base of route 5 feet from me and racks up to climb.

me: (friendly) Hi guys... what are you getting on?
them: Frog's Head
me: Ah, well... we just got on it
them: We'll climb around
me: Oh. Well would you mind waiting? The climber is pretty new and might get nervous if you try to climb around.
them: She won't even know I’m there
me: Ummmmm, yea... she will. She's really new and is not very confident yet, would you mind waiting for her to finish the route?
them: (discussion amongst them)
them: (tying in seemingly to climb frog's head)
me: (still friendly) So would you mind waiting till she's done, besides my gear is still in place, if you wait, i'll run up it really quickly and pull my gear, then you can have at it.
them: (Ignoring me)
them: (leader about to climb)
me: (incredulously) You're NOT going to wait for me to pull my gear?
them: We're going to be nice and climb the route NEXT to you
(side note: both routes share the first 20 feet or so)
me: Can you please wait till I pull my gear; I don't want to get our gear mixed up. We JUST got here, the leader put up the route, my climber is just finishing the route and I’ve not even gotten on it yet.
their
leader: I’m not going to use any gear in your route

their leader proceeds to climb the first 15 feet of Frog's Head and is standing on top of
the first block with no protection in...
their belayer stumbles backwards a foot or 2 pulling the rope **A little** ALMOST pulling leader off the block
leader feels this and yells "whoa"


I have mixed feelings at this, but say nothing.

me: Ya know, I don't mind sharing the route or anchors at all,
I just want to be sure my climber is safe and our gear doesn't get mixed up
I mean... come on... we were all new climbers at one time or another, have a little compassion.

them: Well climber etiquette says any leader climbs through any top rope setup.
me: Hmmm... i'm not so sure about that.

They climb away and follow a route to the right,
eventually climbing ABOVE a party of 5 that's are set up a few routes to the right,
setting an anchor to do the 2nd pitch.

... the party of 5 was never ASKED by the party of 3 that their intention was to do so.

SOOO I ask you all.

Was I being unreasonable by asking the party of 3 to wait?

1) They never asked to share the route
2) I still hadn't gotten on the route
3) (though they didn't know this because they didn't ask), we had no plans of
setting up camp and hogging the route... we were all going to do it once and move on
4) When arriving at a climb that's currently occupied, I’ve always asked the people ahead of me if they minded if we climbed below them once they've set off on the 2nd pitch, but would NEVER assume I could get on a route that they're actively climbing.

Anyway - just wanted to get some feedback. I think they were seriously in the wrong here.

Or for the second group to just chill the hell out for 10 minutes? Works both ways.

them: We're going to be nice and climb the route NEXT to you
(side note: both routes share the first 20 feet or so)
me: Can you please wait till I pull my gear; I don't want to get our gear mixed up. We JUST got here, the leader put up the route, my climber is just finishing the route and I’ve not even gotten on it yet.
their
leader: I’m not going to use any gear in your route

100% agree, but unfortunately worse rudeness than this happens at the Gunks most weekends. If someone insists on being a dick, and you are unable to dissuade them, as long as it isn't dangerous, you need to get over it. Righteous indignation won't help you climb better.

TE

I think you were justified in your stance and reaction to the situation. Up till this point:


I don't see why that should have affected you at all.

+1

+1

True, but went on to become the jerks on the other route. P1 of Maria (route next to the route the OP was on) is a R>L traverse to a very small anchor stance. To which it seems another group was doing Maria Direct which goes to the same anchor..

The bottom line is you were top-roping a super poplular route. It doesn't matter how fast you were. There are routes you can top-rope without tying up a popular trad line. Those routes are where you should have brought the beginner. IMHO

True, but went on to become the jerks on the other route. P1 of Maria (route next to the route the OP was on) is a R>L traverse to a very small anchor stance. To which it seems another group was doing Maria Direct which goes to the same anchor..

A lot of people think their opinions as leaders hold more weight than that of someone topropping. A lot of people also think that their opinion as a 5.11 climber holds more weight than you as a 5.9 climber. Doesn't make either correct.

route. P1 of Maria (route next to the route the OP was on) is a R>L traverse to a very small anchor stance.

A lot of people think their opinions as leaders hold more weight than that of someone topropping. A lot of people also think that their opinion as a 5.11 climber holds more weight than you as a 5.9 climber. Doesn't make either correct.

I agree with you. Doesn't matter how hard you climb to have a valid opinion. The accepted etiquette at the Gunks has always been you don't top-rope trad lines or you at least get out of the way of trad climbers, especially on super popular three star trad climbs like Frogs Head. It is generally a trad climbing area. There are some top roping areas there that can be utilized, Jumping on one of the most traveled trad lines there and top-roping it is just bad judgment.

perhaps they weren't following the standard local ethic, but thats really beside the point. the party of three were being douchebags, which doesnt really help anyone- they could have been more polite and had a little patience, and maybe even helped educate the OP on the local ethic- but god forbid we should actually be kind and help out people when we're on a mission to climb a two pitch route.

A lot of people think their opinions as leaders hold more weight than that of someone topropping. A lot of people also think that their opinion as a 5.11 climber holds more weight than you as a 5.9 climber. Doesn't make either correct.