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Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8
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Rocknovice


Sep 13, 2010, 2:36 PM
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Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8
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Climbed with a friend this week who swears it is safe to put the tail of the rope through the figure 8 instead of doing a double fisherman's. I thought that would compromise the safety of the knot. Who is correct?


silascl


Sep 13, 2010, 2:57 PM
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Re: [Rocknovice] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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Found this with a quick google search. It should answer your questions.

http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/...-follow-through.html


spikeddem


Sep 13, 2010, 4:05 PM
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Re: [silascl] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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It is likely that it was the yosemite finish. Search for "yosemite finish." If that is what he or she showed you, then yes, it is safe.


kennoyce


Sep 13, 2010, 4:48 PM
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Re: [Rocknovice] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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Rocknovice wrote:
Climbed with a friend this week who swears it is safe to put the tail of the rope through the figure 8 instead of doing a double fisherman's. I thought that would compromise the safety of the knot. Who is correct?

Yep, I'd be willing to bet that it's a yosemite finish which is perfectly safe.

Just as an aside, a double fisherman's knot after the figure 8 is 100% completely unnecessary.


testpilot


Sep 13, 2010, 4:55 PM
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Re: [Rocknovice] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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Rocknovice wrote:
Climbed with a friend this week who swears it is safe to put the tail of the rope through the figure 8 instead of doing a double fisherman's. I thought that would compromise the safety of the knot. Who is correct?

Probably the Yosemite finish as others have said. Im just curious as to why you think this wouldn't be safe? Its what Ive always used and its never been an issue at all. It keeps the tail out of the way and seems to help a lot with the untying of things.


(This post was edited by testpilot on Sep 13, 2010, 4:58 PM)


jt512


Sep 13, 2010, 5:29 PM
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Re: [Rocknovice] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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Rocknovice wrote:
Climbed with a friend this week who swears it is safe to put the tail of the rope through the figure 8 instead of doing a double fisherman's. I thought that would compromise the safety of the knot. Who is correct?

Your friend.

Jay


acorneau


Sep 13, 2010, 6:02 PM
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Re: [Rocknovice] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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Think of it as more "weaving" of the strands.


dudemanbu


Sep 13, 2010, 6:33 PM
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Re: [Rocknovice] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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Rocknovice wrote:
Climbed with a friend this week who swears it is safe to put the tail of the rope through the figure 8 instead of doing a double fisherman's. I thought that would compromise the safety of the knot. Who is correct?

STFU NOOB


Rocknovice


Sep 13, 2010, 6:58 PM
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Re: [dudemanbu] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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dudemanbu wrote:
Rocknovice wrote:
Climbed with a friend this week who swears it is safe to put the tail of the rope through the figure 8 instead of doing a double fisherman's. I thought that would compromise the safety of the knot. Who is correct?

STFU NOOB

Let's hope the rest of your lines are more original.

Thanks to everyone else who took the time to answer. In regards to why I felt it might compromise the knot, anything that makes it easier to untie seemed like a bad thing to me. It is not like a rethreaded figure eight where you have matching strands. Thanks for the information. I did google it unsuccessfully but can now put a name to it.


(This post was edited by Rocknovice on Sep 13, 2010, 7:03 PM)


quiteatingmysteak


Sep 13, 2010, 7:07 PM
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Re: [Rocknovice] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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Rocknovice wrote:
dudemanbu wrote:
Rocknovice wrote:
Climbed with a friend this week who swears it is safe to put the tail of the rope through the figure 8 instead of doing a double fisherman's. I thought that would compromise the safety of the knot. Who is correct?

STFU NOOB

Let's hope the rest of your lines are more original.

Thanks to everyone else who took the time to answer. In regards to why I felt it might compromise the knot, anything that makes it easier to untie seemed like a bad thing to me. It is not like a rethreaded figure eight where you have matching strands. Thanks for the information. I did google it unsuccessfully but can now put a name to it.


The more you climb the more you will learn. Its interesting the things climbers latch onto as 'seeming' safer - like clipping the belay locker through the leg and waist webbing of their harness, gigantic backup knots on their figure 8, running a toprope through 3 (or four, or five...) carabiners.

All part of the learning experience.


Rocknovice


Sep 13, 2010, 7:12 PM
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Re: [quiteatingmysteak] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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I would rather ask and get called names that hurt myself or my climbing partner by pretending to have it all figured out.


bill413


Sep 13, 2010, 7:28 PM
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Re: [Rocknovice] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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Rocknovice wrote:
dudemanbu wrote:
Rocknovice wrote:
Climbed with a friend this week who swears it is safe to put the tail of the rope through the figure 8 instead of doing a double fisherman's. I thought that would compromise the safety of the knot. Who is correct?

STFU NOOB

Let's hope the rest of your lines are more original.

Thanks to everyone else who took the time to answer. In regards to why I felt it might compromise the knot, anything that makes it easier to untie seemed like a bad thing to me. It is not like a rethreaded figure eight where you have matching strands. Thanks for the information. I did google it unsuccessfully but can now put a name to it.

Good response.

And good attitude.

I agree that "easy to untie" is not the most comforting quality in my tie-in. But, the 8 is quite secure.


jt512


Sep 13, 2010, 7:29 PM
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Re: [Rocknovice] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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Rocknovice wrote:
In regards to why I felt it might compromise the knot, anything that makes it easier to untie seemed like a bad thing to me. It is not like a rethreaded figure eight where you have matching strands.

The knot we are all thinking that you are asking about is a rethreaded figure-8, with the addition of having the tail tucked back through the knot, as depicted below.



If that's not the knot you're asking about, then ignore all our answers so far.

Jay


spikeddem


Sep 13, 2010, 7:50 PM
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Re: [jt512] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
Rocknovice wrote:
In regards to why I felt it might compromise the knot, anything that makes it easier to untie seemed like a bad thing to me. It is not like a rethreaded figure eight where you have matching strands.

The knot we are all thinking that you are asking about is a rethreaded figure-8, with the addition of having the tail tucked back through the knot, as depicted below.



If that's not the knot you're asking about, then ignore all our answers so far.

Jay

I never knew that was a legitimate version of the yosemite finish. I've always seen an extra wrap (described on the website you got that picture from, here). I'm surprised I've never seen anyone tie their yosemite finish that way. Glad I knew better than to call you out on it without double checking Cool


gosharks


Sep 13, 2010, 8:06 PM
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Re: [spikeddem] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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spikeddem wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Rocknovice wrote:
In regards to why I felt it might compromise the knot, anything that makes it easier to untie seemed like a bad thing to me. It is not like a rethreaded figure eight where you have matching strands.

The knot we are all thinking that you are asking about is a rethreaded figure-8, with the addition of having the tail tucked back through the knot, as depicted below.

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ejAk42p7jdY/SQnf7IKpeLI/AAAAAAAAByY/uZ2c1iMcPJY/s400/Yosemite+Finish+1.jpg[/img]

If that's not the knot you're asking about, then ignore all our answers so far.

Jay

I never knew that was a legitimate version of the yosemite finish. I've always seen an extra wrap (described on the website you got that picture from, here). I'm surprised I've never seen anyone tie their yosemite finish that way. Glad I knew better than to call you out on it without double checking Cool
Been tying that (pic that JT posted) for years. I also leave a little bit of slack so that I can pull the tail back out of the 8 more easily.


(This post was edited by gosharks on Sep 13, 2010, 8:07 PM)


Rocknovice


Sep 14, 2010, 3:51 AM
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Yes, that's it but it was not so neatly dressed.


boymeetsrock


Sep 15, 2010, 8:00 AM
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Re: [silascl] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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I was just having a conversation about this knot last weekend. The extra wrap was suggested to me as I use the standard Yosemite finish.

It is interesting to read that the standard Yosemite finish is susceptible to roll if the knot is loaded from the inside of the loop. (i.e. if you use the loop of the knot for your belay loop.)

I'll have to put some thought into my standard practice now... I often clip into my belay loop and the loop of my figure eight when belaying and anchoring on multi-pitch. I consider it (extra) redundant...

While the figure eight is rarely loaded in this fashion, this new info (to me) is indeed food for thought.


ryanb


Sep 15, 2010, 9:15 AM
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Re: [Rocknovice] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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History of the Olevsky Knot/Yosemetie Finish inspired by a stubborn mule


kachoong


Sep 15, 2010, 9:43 AM
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Re: [boymeetsrock] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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boymeetsrock wrote:
It is interesting to read that the standard Yosemite finish is susceptible to roll if the knot is loaded from the inside of the loop. (i.e. if you use the loop of the knot for your belay loop.)

Yeah, I heard that it's possible for the knot to unravel if the inside of the loop was to become loaded... perhaps in the VERY unlikely event the inside loop (going through your harness) clips into a draw during a fall...??


boymeetsrock


Sep 15, 2010, 10:01 AM
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Re: [kachoong] Safety of putting rope tail in figure 8 [In reply to]
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The example used in the article was of a harness with no belay loop, where the person uses his tie in as the belay loop.

In this situation if the belayer were to catch a fall the knot would be loaded from the inside of the loop attached to the belayers harness.

Another concern may be on a multi-pitch climb where the belayer is secured to the anchor via a biner through the inside loop of the tie in. After weighting this for some time the know "could" roll...


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