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ChicksClimbingRockandIce
Aug 29, 2010, 11:15 PM
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We are headed out to the New River Gorge for some beautiful fall climbing in just a few weeks (Sept. 24-26) and want to invite any ladies in the region to come out and join us for a weekend of climbing fun!
Our short format clinic - the new "Girly Gathering - will have you climbing Saturday and Sunday at a 4-to-1 ratio, give you two dinners, provide you with gear if necessary and will feature two evening workshop/discussions!
Check out our Web site http://www.chickswithpicks.net/...river-gorge-details/ for all the details!
We'll be camping in a group, but have a list of nearby hotels for those who would rather sleep in a bed  If you've never been to NRG this is a great opportunity to check it out with some of the best guides in the world!
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Carnage
Sep 15, 2010, 7:50 PM
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i dont understand how you can charge $350 for this.
A full day of guided rock climbing w/ one of the major companies in the area goes for about $110. Your courses get you 2 days of climbing, so that $220. THe pro guides give you lunch. your program includes dinner. Your saying that your guides will give such good instruction that it will be worth about 150% of the price? I find that hard to believe. Maybe if you had a pro or 2 in the lineup. Or maybe if you had a campground or something. Maybe that would make it seem like less of a rip-off.
I was going to try to get my girlfriend (who climbs with me regularly) to sign up for this, but after looking at the price, i'm reduced to talking shit on the internet. for $350, i could buy her new shoes, a rope, a harness maybe some draws with the left over. she'd get way more value out of the money that paying for this camp.
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kennoyce
Sep 15, 2010, 9:52 PM
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Worthless without pictures
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socalclimber
Sep 15, 2010, 11:15 PM
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Ah, Sterling is the sponsor. This makes sense. I did a guide gig for this a few years ago here in Josh. I don't know what they charged, but it was a very fun event. At the time, it was called the Goddesses of Rock I think. Well organised and very enjoyable to work.
I for one am glad to see this has been resurrected. Sonya was running the show when she worked for Sterling.
Have good time, and good luck!
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ChicksClimbingRockandIce
Sep 16, 2010, 1:57 AM
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Hey Carnage, it may be hard to believe but trust me, we really are not making any profit at all on these Girly Gatherings. They are really meant for women to get a dirt-cheap "Chicks" experience, which, if you talk to any woman that has done a Chicks with Picks clinic, is not something really tangible that can be put into words. (Sounds cheesy, I know, but talk to a Chick alumna!)
Since we are based in Colorado and our guides are all over we have to pay to fly them in (Angela Hawse will be there for sure), along with shipping and arranging for demo gear - we also have to pay for permits through a local guide service and you can see little things add up.
We've gotten a lot of feedback that even at this price it's still too expensive for lots of people, but we can't afford to lose money on the clinics either. Since it's our first time out to NRG we hope to find better ways to save $$ so we can come out again next year.
Thanks for your honest feedback though - we're definitely taking note of it.
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ChicksClimbingRockandIce
Sep 16, 2010, 2:00 AM
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Thanks Socialclimber! Yes, it used to be called Goddesses on the Rocks or something in the past, but we got feedback that ladies didn't really like "goddesses" as silly as that is, hence the new "Girly Gathering."
We're really psyched to be working with Sterling though, as they are super supportive of all of our Chicks with Picks and Chicks Rock programs.
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vegastradguy
Sep 16, 2010, 2:18 AM
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Carnage wrote: i dont understand how you can charge $350 for this. A full day of guided rock climbing w/ one of the major companies in the area goes for about $110. .
i find that hard to believe- most guides run around $250-$300 for a half day out here, and they're all lucky if they can make a living on that since a good month is 12-15 work days. (they obviously dont get the full $250- i believe their day rate is roughly $125ish).
$350 for two days and lunch is a steal.
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socalclimber
Sep 16, 2010, 2:27 AM
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vegastradguy wrote: Carnage wrote: i dont understand how you can charge $350 for this. A full day of guided rock climbing w/ one of the major companies in the area goes for about $110. . i find that hard to believe- most guides run around $250-$300 for a half day out here, and they're all lucky if they can make a living on that since a good month is 12-15 work days. (they obviously dont get the full $250- i believe their day rate is roughly $125ish). $350 for two days and lunch is a steal.
Yeah I agree. I promise you I wouldn't even think of guiding for $125 a day. I'd be better off spitting in the beans at taco bell. Far less hassle.
This is a really good event folks. Encourage you're women to go.
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colatownkid
Sep 16, 2010, 2:28 AM
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vegastradguy wrote: Carnage wrote: i dont understand how you can charge $350 for this. A full day of guided rock climbing w/ one of the major companies in the area goes for about $110. . i find that hard to believe- most guides run around $250-$300 for a half day out here, and they're all lucky if they can make a living on that since a good month is 12-15 work days. (they obviously dont get the full $250- i believe their day rate is roughly $125ish). $350 for two days and lunch is a steal.
Something to consider is the cost of living differential between the southeast and places west (or most any other part of the country for that matter). $110 represents a much more sizeable portion of most folks income in the southeast than elsewhere and guides frequently take a lower wage or leave the business. compared to that, yes, $350 seems expensive, but in the scheme of things, I think that's a great price.
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cfnubbler
Sep 16, 2010, 12:02 PM
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Carnage wrote: i dont understand how you can charge $350 for this. A full day of guided rock climbing w/ one of the major companies in the area goes for about $110. Your courses get you 2 days of climbing, so that $220. THe pro guides give you lunch. your program includes dinner. Your saying that your guides will give such good instruction that it will be worth about 150% of the price? I find that hard to believe. Maybe if you had a pro or 2 in the lineup. Or maybe if you had a campground or something. Maybe that would make it seem like less of a rip-off. I was going to try to get my girlfriend (who climbs with me regularly) to sign up for this, but after looking at the price, i'm reduced to talking shit on the internet. for $350, i could buy her new shoes, a rope, a harness maybe some draws with the left over. she'd get way more value out of the money that paying for this camp.
If they had a pro or two in the line-up? You must be a troll. If not, caveat emptor...
Those $110 climbing days are not with UIAGM certified guides, of which there are several on the guide roster for this event. There's also a bunch of AMGA certified rock guides (I'm not aware of many certified rock guides working in the New ), and one of the more accomplished American alpinists.
So will these folks provide far, far better instruction than you'd find in your $110 / day group outing? Without a doubt.
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cfnubbler
Sep 16, 2010, 12:16 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: Carnage wrote: i dont understand how you can charge $350 for this. A full day of guided rock climbing w/ one of the major companies in the area goes for about $110. . i find that hard to believe- most guides run around $250-$300 for a half day out here, and they're all lucky if they can make a living on that since a good month is 12-15 work days. (they obviously dont get the full $250- i believe their day rate is roughly $125ish). $350 for two days and lunch is a steal.
I agree 100% that this event is a good deal, but to claim that a typical half day in Red Rocks costs $350 is simply not true. $300-350 is the going rate for certified rock guides for a full day private outing. Half days in groups are considerably less, whether in Red Rocks or elsewhere.
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socalclimber
Sep 16, 2010, 1:47 PM
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Let's see, our rates for a private guide, full day, single person runs $315, two people $175, three people $155, four people $140, and five people $125. As far as classes go, they start around $125 /person for a single day, $245 for a full weekend.
If this event is anything like the one I worked, then $350 is a steal. They had night time activities, dinner, beer, a raffle etc.
It was a great time. I will fully stand up for this event.
This is a good deal.
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Carnage
Sep 16, 2010, 2:59 PM
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http://www.aceraft.com/...er-new-full-day.html
is someone who is signing up for a clinic that climbs less than 5.10 (or even about 5.10) really going to notice the difference between a local guide or someone flown in from CO?
i don't need Michael Jordan to teach me how to play basketball if i dont know how to dribble.
(This post was edited by Carnage on Sep 16, 2010, 3:01 PM)
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sidepull
Sep 16, 2010, 3:01 PM
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Carnage wrote: i dont understand how you can charge $350 for this. A full day of guided rock climbing w/ one of the major companies in the area goes for about $110. Your courses get you 2 days of climbing, so that $220. THe pro guides give you lunch. your program includes dinner. Your saying that your guides will give such good instruction that it will be worth about 150% of the price? I find that hard to believe. Maybe if you had a pro or 2 in the lineup. Or maybe if you had a campground or something. Maybe that would make it seem like less of a rip-off. I was going to try to get my girlfriend (who climbs with me regularly) to sign up for this, but after looking at the price, i'm reduced to talking shit on the internet. for $350, i could buy her new shoes, a rope, a harness maybe some draws with the left over. she'd get way more value out of the money that paying for this camp.
Please provide evidence in the form of a link to a guide site.
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vegastradguy
Sep 16, 2010, 4:02 PM
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cfnubbler wrote: vegastradguy wrote: Carnage wrote: i dont understand how you can charge $350 for this. A full day of guided rock climbing w/ one of the major companies in the area goes for about $110. . i find that hard to believe- most guides run around $250-$300 for a half day out here, and they're all lucky if they can make a living on that since a good month is 12-15 work days. (they obviously dont get the full $250- i believe their day rate is roughly $125ish). $350 for two days and lunch is a steal. I agree 100% that this event is a good deal, but to claim that a typical half day in Red Rocks costs $350 is simply not true. $300-350 is the going rate for certified rock guides for a full day private outing. Half days in groups are considerably less, whether in Red Rocks or elsewhere.
a half day with AAI in Red Rock is $300 for one person. a full day is $325.
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dynosore
Sep 16, 2010, 4:12 PM
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Sounds reasonable to me. Try taking pilot lessons, or racing cars, or about a million other things and you'll realize that climbing delivers more smiles per dollar than most. I onced ruined an 800 dollar set of tires in two weekends of autocrossing. A rebuild for a Cessna can run 20 grand or more.
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jajen
Sep 16, 2010, 4:59 PM
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Carnage wrote: http://www.aceraft.com/...er-new-full-day.html is someone who is signing up for a clinic that climbs less than 5.10 (or even about 5.10) really going to notice the difference between a local guide or someone flown in from CO? i don't need Michael Jordan to teach me how to play basketball if i dont know how to dribble.
FWIW that link is for their basic group deal on THEIR campus with, most likely, one of their least experienced guides. A day in the New/Endless Wall proper is $140 (presumably with an AMGA SPI guide since that's a req't.) and a Learn to Lead clinic is $175 with a 2:1 ratio. A STRONG argument could be made that a Certified Rock Guide is worth significantly more than an SPI ( there are guides out there that are outstanding and just don't have the time or need to pursue Rock Guide cert) but a targeted clinic by a for women is, most often, an outstanding event.
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wildsanna
Sep 18, 2010, 4:39 AM
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Just so you know where I'm coming from let me say that I have been a client of Chicks Climbing's "Chicks with Picks" workshop for years. I have been the base camp manager for all but one of the Chicks Rock clinics. In Wisconsin, I have been the local liaison since the idea to come to the midwest was conceived, researching everything from restaurants and catering, local doctors, hospital locations, alternative lodging to camping, transportation options, permits, publicity outlets, and so much more. Here in Wisconsin, besides paying world class guides the amount they are worth and certainly deserve, Chicks Climbing has to pay for things like insurance (expensive!), vehicle rentals to transport out of town guides, demo gear, camping equipment, food for staff and chicks, park fees/permits, airline tickets. The Chicks Climbing office spends weeks organizing clinics' every detail. The programs are exceedingly well run, detailed and thorough. The guides are inspiring, committed experts.... all of which comes with a cost beyond what guides earn.
What do you get for all this thoughtful preparation and expertise? A rare chance to work with guides who are the best in the business, not just in terms of climbing accomplishments but in the quality of their instruction. Just because someone is good at what they do doesn't mean they can teach it well, but these girly guides are gifted teachers. They meet, well actually, they usually EXCEED the expectations of their students. There is one element to Chicks programming that is hard to put a price on -- inspiration... inspiration that goes well beyond role modeling, mastering climbing technique and getting safety and systems dialed. We chicks come away transformed, confident and capable, equipped with strategies to continue our growth beyond the days of the workshop. Oh yes, the cost of Chicks at The New River Gorge is a bargain! Hope your girlfriend decides to come, Carnage. She'll love it!
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marc801
Sep 18, 2010, 4:37 PM
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Carnage wrote: http://www.aceraft.com/...er-new-full-day.html is someone who is signing up for a clinic that climbs less than 5.10 (or even about 5.10) really going to notice the difference between a local guide or someone flown in from CO? i don't need Michael Jordan to teach me how to play basketball if i dont know how to dribble.
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socalclimber
Sep 18, 2010, 10:22 PM
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marc801 wrote: Carnage wrote: http://www.aceraft.com/...er-new-full-day.html is someone who is signing up for a clinic that climbs less than 5.10 (or even about 5.10) really going to notice the difference between a local guide or someone flown in from CO? i don't need Michael Jordan to teach me how to play basketball if i dont know how to dribble. First you complain about the fee, without realizing all the underlying costs involved or understanding both the economics of such an event and the actual fees charged by guide companies. Then, when you're p0wned on that topic, you switch focus to start questioning the quality and usefulness of the instruction. Why do you seem to be so convinced that this event isn't worth the cost?
Because he doesn't know the first fucking thing of what he's talking about. Bringing top notch guides in is a very good idea.
Gee what a concept, they actually know how to teach climbing.
Not as easy as it sounds folks. That I can guarantee.
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ClimbClimb
Sep 19, 2010, 5:05 AM
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marc801 wrote: Why do you seem to be so convinced that this event isn't worth the cost?
Probably trying to make himself feel better about not being able to afford to pay for it for his girlfriend. (No shame in that part, $350 is a lot of money, and many people are having a tough time).
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No, but they will notice a difference between a targeted clinic with one of the Chick's guides and a learn-to-belay day with a rafting company. You may not need Michael Jordan, but you probably want to at least have an experienced basket player. I'm not saying ACE doesn't have any good guides. But I am saying they're not the best local choice for anything beyond the basics. They're not even really the best raft company, although they are the least expensive for that, too. If basic is what your girlfriend needs, then yeah, maybe something else would be a better option. 
