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Partner robdotcalm


Sep 17, 2010, 11:17 AM
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Grigri mistake, climber decks
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http://www.redriverclimbing.com/....php?f=5&t=13284

Here’s another accident in which the belayer did not use a Grigri properly. The climber was dropped , fractured an ankle bone but hit the belayer’s dog killing the dog.

I only got part of the way through this long thread, but it appears that the most likely cause of the accident was the belayer giving slack and having her hand off the brake end of the rope when the climber fell.

Condolences on the dog and best wishes for the climber's recovery.

Cheers,
Rob.calm


imnotclever


Sep 17, 2010, 11:20 AM
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Re: [robdotcalm] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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Was the dog named spot by any chance?


[/camhed]


Arrogant_Bastard


Sep 17, 2010, 11:27 AM
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Re: [imnotclever] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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imnotclever wrote:
Was the dog named spot by any chance?


[/camhed]

You know, I am deeply offended by this. Why would you post such a thing?


cfnubbler


Sep 17, 2010, 11:32 AM
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Re: [Arrogant_Bastard] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote:
imnotclever wrote:
Was the dog named spot by any chance?


[/camhed]

You know, I am deeply offended by this. Why would you post such a thing?

Yeah, that dog got a ruff break.


socalclimber


Sep 17, 2010, 12:39 PM
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Re: [imnotclever] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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imnotclever wrote:
Was the dog named spot by any chance?


[/camhed]

Sorry for those involved.

But that was funny....

On the other hand this isn't:

"Worse, she said this was the third time it has happened to her."

Jesus....


(This post was edited by socalclimber on Sep 17, 2010, 12:43 PM)


fresh


Sep 17, 2010, 12:53 PM
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Re: [socalclimber] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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condolences to the owners of the dog, that's pretty sad. hope everyone recovers from this.

toad857 posted this:
In reply to:
The accident: The climber moved past the kneebar on reliquary. As he did so, rope was pulled upward with him. The belayer, at this moment, felt a tug on the rope and held down the cam to pay out some slack. At this exact moment the climber, pumped, casually let go and fell without advertisement. Gravity is always there, and is quicker than all of us. By the time she was able to react (i.e., let go of the cam), it was too late to prevent the collision. Belay error was the critical factor in this fall--it could have been prevented with a foolproof technique (that is, do not allow the brake hand to leave the brake rope ever).


cantbuymefriends


Sep 17, 2010, 1:00 PM
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Re: Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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Isn't "See Spot Run" a John Sherman boulder problem...?


cantbuymefriends


Sep 17, 2010, 1:01 PM
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So much for for rumors about animals having a sixth sence for impending danger, I guess.


Arrogant_Bastard


Sep 17, 2010, 1:06 PM
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Re: [cantbuymefriends] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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I'm still confused on how it was the GriGris mistake.


socalclimber


Sep 17, 2010, 1:13 PM
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Re: [Arrogant_Bastard] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote:
I'm still confused on how it was the GriGris mistake.

Don't you know by now that it's always the gear's fault?


Gmburns2000


Sep 17, 2010, 1:26 PM
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Re: [Arrogant_Bastard] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote:
I'm still confused on how it was the GriGris mistake.

[BS sensor obviously broken]

It seems that the mistake may not have ocurred with another device where taking one's hand off the brake strand is obviously a really bad thing. I believe there are still people who still lead belay with a grigri by taking their hand off the brake strand to feed out rope.

[/broken BS sensor (hopefully so)]


amyas


Sep 17, 2010, 2:40 PM
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Re: [imnotclever] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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very clever


milesenoell


Sep 17, 2010, 2:50 PM
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Re: [socalclimber] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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socalclimber wrote:
imnotclever wrote:
Was the dog named spot by any chance?


[/camhed]

Sorry for those involved.

But that was funny....

On the other hand this isn't:

"Worse, she said this was the third time it has happened to her."

Jesus....

No doubt. This is the THIRD time she'd dropped a climber?! How the hell does she get anyone dumb enough to let her belay them anymore?
e?


jt512


Sep 17, 2010, 2:55 PM
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Re: [milesenoell] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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milesenoell wrote:
socalclimber wrote:
imnotclever wrote:
Was the dog named spot by any chance?


[/camhed]

Sorry for those involved.

But that was funny....

On the other hand this isn't:

"Worse, she said this was the third time it has happened to her."

Jesus....

No doubt. This is the THIRD time she'd dropped a climber?! How the hell does she get anyone dumb enough to let her belay them anymore?
e?

In the original thread, the accuracy of that claim has been called into question.

Jay


dynosore


Sep 17, 2010, 2:58 PM
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Re: [robdotcalm] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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Wow. My favorite part of the linked thread is the dude that is defending her, that says he dropped his sister too. But we're a safe bunch of climbers. Sure you are. Evidently the guy that was dropped had dropped someone a couple years ago too. If you have 3 dropping "accidents" in a couple of years among your climbing group, find a different bunch to climb with. Unbelievable.


Colinhoglund


Sep 17, 2010, 3:10 PM
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Re: [socalclimber] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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Not a direct reply to Social-climber, just the information in his post.

Sorry about the dog but . . .
Seriously! When will people learn that a "break assist device" ie Grigri is no substitute for proper belay skills? I'm not going to be naive and say this wouldn't have happened with an ATC or similar, because this group of climbers clearly does not have the collective intelligence to properly use their equipment.

Some people "crusade against the cult of the tricam", but I think I'm going to start the crusade against Gumbies with Grigris. Nice, it even rhymes.

***disclaimer***
The Grigri is a wonderful device in the hands of a well trained belayer.


(This post was edited by Colinhoglund on Sep 17, 2010, 3:11 PM)


socalclimber


Sep 17, 2010, 3:53 PM
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Re: [Colinhoglund] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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Colinhoglund wrote:
Not a direct reply to Social-climber, just the information in his post.

Sorry about the dog but . . .
Seriously! When will people learn that a "break assist device" ie Grigri is no substitute for proper belay skills? I'm not going to be naive and say this wouldn't have happened with an ATC or similar, because this group of climbers clearly does not have the collective intelligence to properly use their equipment.

Some people "crusade against the cult of the tricam", but I think I'm going to start the crusade against Gumbies with Grigris. Nice, it even rhymes.

***disclaimer***
The Grigri is a wonderful device in the hands of a well trained belayer.

Yup, belay devices don't fail, people do.


johnwesely


Sep 17, 2010, 5:24 PM
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Re: [jt512] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
socalclimber wrote:
imnotclever wrote:
Was the dog named spot by any chance?


[/camhed]

Sorry for those involved.

But that was funny....

On the other hand this isn't:

"Worse, she said this was the third time it has happened to her."

Jesus....

No doubt. This is the THIRD time she'd dropped a climber?! How the hell does she get anyone dumb enough to let her belay them anymore?
e?

In the original thread, the accuracy of that claim has been called into question.

Jay

Jay is right.


nailzz


Sep 17, 2010, 6:01 PM
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Re: [dynosore] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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dynosore wrote:
Wow. My favorite part of the linked thread is the dude that is defending her, that says he dropped his sister too. But we're a safe bunch of climbers. Sure you are. Evidently the guy that was dropped had dropped someone a couple years ago too. If you have 3 dropping "accidents" in a couple of years among your climbing group, find a different bunch to climb with. sport. Unbelievable.


patto


Sep 17, 2010, 6:05 PM
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Re: [johnwesely] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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That thread is scarily full of incompetence that puts rockclimbing.com to shame. I don't want to go climbing at red river.

"Lets not make this personal, but I do want to learn from this. I have never seen anybody use the technique shown here by Petzl. I'll give it a try tomorrow at the gym.

Right or wrong - most everybody using a gri-gri takes their hand off the brake to feed slack. I can use a gri-gri just like an ATC to slowly feed out rope. I can also loop a few feet of rope and hold the cam with my thumb while keeping my index fingers on the rope - I can feed a few feet quickly this way. But when my climber needs a lot of slack to clip quickly - I take my hand off the brake - BRIEFLY. More importantly, my thumb is only on the cam for the half second in which I am yanking rope out. I am open minded to there being a better way - but lets not claim this method caused this accident. The only way a climber is decking from 50 feet is if you death grip the cam."
Shocked



(This post was edited by patto on Sep 17, 2010, 6:06 PM)


jt512


Sep 17, 2010, 6:13 PM
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Re: [patto] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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patto wrote:
That thread is scarily full of incompetence that puts rockclimbing.com to shame. I don't want to go climbing at red river.

"Lets not make this personal, but I do want to learn from this. I have never seen anybody use the technique shown here by Petzl. I'll give it a try tomorrow at the gym.

Right or wrong - most everybody using a gri-gri takes their hand off the brake to feed slack. I can use a gri-gri just like an ATC to slowly feed out rope. I can also loop a few feet of rope and hold the cam with my thumb while keeping my index fingers on the rope - I can feed a few feet quickly this way. But when my climber needs a lot of slack to clip quickly - I take my hand off the brake - BRIEFLY. More importantly, my thumb is only on the cam for the half second in which I am yanking rope out. I am open minded to there being a better way - but lets not claim this method caused this accident. The only way a climber is decking from 50 feet is if you death grip the cam."
Shocked

I'm going to guess that, since you are shocked by that statement, you don't use a grigri much, if at all, right?

Jay


patto


Sep 17, 2010, 6:23 PM
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Re: [jt512] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
I'm going to guess that, since you are shocked by that statement, you don't use a grigri much, if at all, right?

Jay

Shocked

Wrong.

When I use the grigri I never take my hand off the brake to feed slack. Its dangerous as numerous accidents have shown and goes against all common sense of proper belaying.


(This post was edited by patto on Sep 17, 2010, 6:25 PM)


jt512


Sep 17, 2010, 6:32 PM
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Re: [patto] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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patto wrote:
jt512 wrote:
I'm going to guess that, since you are shocked by that statement, you don't use a grigri much, if at all, right?

Jay

Shocked

Wrong.

When I use the grigri I never take my hand off the brake to feed slack. Its dangerous as numerous accidents have shown and goes against all common sense of proper belaying.

So, how much experience do you have using a grigri, and how do you feed slack rapidly for clipping without taking your brake hand off the rope?

Jay


socalclimber


Sep 17, 2010, 7:24 PM
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Re: [jt512] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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Yeah, I'm curious about this too. From what he describes what I see happening is the poor leader desperately fighting for rope on a fast desperate clip.


strangeday


Sep 17, 2010, 8:25 PM
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Re: [nailzz] Grigri mistake, climber decks [In reply to]
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If take your hand off the rope, then there is no belay.

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