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altelis
Sep 22, 2010, 6:40 PM
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USnavy wrote: majid_sabet wrote: Gri Gri= Condom the consequences can be sever Its "severe" and "GriGri", noob...
USnavy, that's pronounced "ass hat"
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Gmburns2000
Sep 22, 2010, 7:39 PM
Post #102 of 142
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jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: blondgecko wrote: spikeddem wrote: It's* and comma goes inside quotation mark there. Why would anyone ever correct majid on grammar? It's, like, his thing. Now those are fighting words. ... but seriously, can we try to get back on topic now? he's right, comma goes inside the quotes in this instance. That's only true in American English. Jay relevance? that other BS was changed for a reason ya know. Huh? we (americans) changed the language deliberately for a reason. As an American, I have the right to change the climbing English to make things easier and yes Mr Modz, we are still talking about GriGri. that was an amazingly good sentence. "That" should be capitalized, along with the first word of every other sentence you've written. You're in no position to be a critic. Jay
I am if I want to be, and I want to be: you still suck.
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spikeddem
Sep 22, 2010, 8:01 PM
Post #103 of 142
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jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: blondgecko wrote: spikeddem wrote: It's* and comma goes inside quotation mark there. Why would anyone ever correct majid on grammar? It's, like, his thing. Now those are fighting words. ... but seriously, can we try to get back on topic now? he's right, comma goes inside the quotes in this instance. That's only true in American English. Jay
I am aware of that, I was responding to an American. You almost GU'd my response to sir gecko. Close call.
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billcoe_
Sep 23, 2010, 1:12 AM
Post #104 of 142
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When all you jackasses get done being bullshit artists and asswipes to each other. Some folks are still on task.
captainstatic wrote: I am in direct contact with the climber. He is going back to the doctor in three weeks and will then start PT so he should be back to climbing soon. Both he and the belayer openly admit that belayer error was the cause of the accident. I am trying to find out more details directly from them. What I have found out so far is that they were using a 10mm rope so rope diameter shouldn't have been an issue. The climber also thinks there was some friction through the device at some point in the fall. I will try to find out more details about the technique the belayer was using.
Good deal, I wish them well again. It's a reminder to all of us that we need to emphasis this skill, and do it every time we get out, no matter what the position or device we are using.
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shoo
Sep 23, 2010, 2:15 AM
Post #105 of 142
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billcoe_ wrote: When all you jackasses get done being bullshit artists and asswipes to each other. Some folks are still on task. captainstatic wrote: I am in direct contact with the climber. He is going back to the doctor in three weeks and will then start PT so he should be back to climbing soon. Both he and the belayer openly admit that belayer error was the cause of the accident. I am trying to find out more details directly from them. What I have found out so far is that they were using a 10mm rope so rope diameter shouldn't have been an issue. The climber also thinks there was some friction through the device at some point in the fall. I will try to find out more details about the technique the belayer was using. Good deal, I wish them well again. It's a reminder to all of us that we need to emphasis this skill, and do it every time we get out, no matter what the position or device we are using.
As I always believe, the direct cause of accident was the belayer. However, the climber bares some of the blame because he chose to climb with her.
I had a pretty nasty fall due to belayer error in the spring. I would have been injury free had he given me a soft catch rather than locking off hard sending me penduliming into a wall. However, I chose to climb with a guy I never climbed with before without knowing much about him. This was not a smart choice, and there were consequences. The blame is partially mine.
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captainstatic
Sep 23, 2010, 3:58 PM
Post #106 of 142
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shoo wrote: As I always believe, the direct cause of accident was the belayer. However, the climber bares some of the blame because he chose to climb with her. I had a pretty nasty fall due to belayer error in the spring. I would have been injury free had he given me a soft catch rather than locking off hard sending me penduliming into a wall. However, I chose to climb with a guy I never climbed with before without knowing much about him. This was not a smart choice, and there were consequences. The blame is partially mine.
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shoo
Sep 23, 2010, 4:18 PM
Post #107 of 142
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captainstatic wrote: The belayer is his girlfriend so I don't know if the choice would be that easy. Honey, I love you but I am dumping you as a belayer ;)
Or don't go out and climb stuff before said girl has adequate experience. And yes, I am making a strong assumption about experience, due to the evidence (she dropped him) and the fact that the story appears to fit pretty nicely into the overly-macho-boyfriend-takes-inexperienced-girlfriend-out-climbing stereotype.
Let me make this clear: this is speculation based on assumptions and hearsay. I have not met these two, and do not mean any disrespect. What happened sucks for all involved.
The worst part about belayer error is that it's usually someone else that gets hurt, not the one that committed the mistake. I just want to make it clear that the climber appears to have made a poor choice, and thus is partially responsible for the consequences.
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captainstatic
Sep 23, 2010, 5:33 PM
Post #108 of 142
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No doubt there are people who fit that stereotype but the climbers in this accident do not. The following is part of what a relative of the belayer posted on RRC.com -
An update on the climbers that had the accident at Military Wall, ... It was my niece and her boyfriend. ... I am a mountain guide in Colorado and have been climbing a long time, and was the first to teach my niece how to climb when she was a little girl. I have personally shown her how to use a Gri Gri correctly. As I have not talked to her yet about the details, but have read the posts here, it sounds like she was holding the gri gri open to feed rope, ...
I think part of the lesson here is that "experienced" climbers can have flawed technique or make mistakes.
Of course the thread on RRC.com digressed into a belay technique discussion. This post was the best and on point -
A very well respected "old school" gorge climber taught me how to belay years ago and something he said has stuck with me all these years. At my age, not much sticks with me anymore but this did:
When the climber asks "On belay?" and you reply "Belay is on." you have essentially entered into a verbal agreement (contract is the word he used) to keep the climber safe no matter what. This verbal agreement is in effect until the climber says "Off Belay" and you reply "Belay is off".
Secondly, he asked me the difference between belaying with a gri gri and an ATC and I went into a long description of how to use the gri gri. He stopped me in mid sentence and said "Nothing". Use them the same way where you never take your hand off the brake end. He was big on keeping things simple.
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wonderwoman
Sep 23, 2010, 5:56 PM
Post #109 of 142
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captainstatic wrote: I think part of the lesson here is that "experienced" climbers can have flawed technique or make mistakes.
Or, just have really bad judgment. Unfortunately, sometimes you don't find that out until it really matters.
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billcoe_
Sep 23, 2010, 8:37 PM
Post #110 of 142
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captainstatic wrote: The belayer is his girlfriend so I don't know if the choice would be that easy. Honey, I love you but I am dumping you as a belayer ;)
LOL!
When my son came back from college last year whereupon he assured me he'd learned to both climb and belay. I insisted he practice with the full rope layed out on the sidewalk right in front of our house, both ways both hands. Tied him off to the telephone pole, theurned out, they hadn't taught him that. In fact it also turns out, he needed practice. Furthermore, he really needed it to be emphasized how critical this skill was and how it can't be 99% good, cause that means you're dealing with a fatality 1% of the time. It's that critical and important. Much much more important than pulling on stone, which up till that time had bee the focus. Then we went out and practiced at the rock with a back up belayer. Now we are doing multipitch and this summer we did 2 or 3 first ascents together. Much nicer being with him knowing the kid won't kill me.
These are choices...in this case, that they BOTH appear to have made. They chose NOT to practice. They chose not to emphasis it's importance. It is a choice YOU or I can make as a climber and as a belayer.
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viciado
Oct 1, 2010, 12:55 PM
Post #111 of 142
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The leader in the fatal "Darkside"incident
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
made a decision similar to what you described. It seems to be a combination of poor technique and mis-placed trust that results in the more serious accidents. I know what it is to have the bug to climb so bad that I will do almost anything to get on the rock, but in some ways, soloing seems like a better option than involving someone else resulting in a false sence of security. At least the risks are better defined when I am soloing... not that I encourage that, but it involves more calculated thought, which I do advocate.
(This post was edited by viciado on Oct 1, 2010, 1:02 PM)
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ClimbSoHigh
Oct 15, 2010, 2:59 PM
Post #112 of 142
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I think the biggest take away is that you need to focus more on your belayer choices than anything else, people spend hours researching the best gear, inspecting thier ropes, training, techniques, etc, but will grab any bystander to belay them at the crag. I would rather climb on a 40 year old hemp rope than with a gumby belayer. Most people brag about their hardest onsight, their scariest epic, their FA's, longest whipper, most commiting climb, which is all nice but not the most important climbing skill at all. My biggest accomplishment so far in my 10 years of climbing is paying 100% attention for all belays I have ever given, never taken my brake hand off ever with any belay device, and most importantly I have never dropped a climber. My second biggest accomplishments are the numerous climbs I have backed off of where I was not confident and injury seems likely resulting in never being injured tied into a rope (bouldering is a different story!). People should brag about these things rather than their first 5.12 onsight. I also have a policy that if you have ever dropped a climber, including a temporary slip of concentration that makes a whipper way larger than needed, you're black listed. I have a couple friends who I will boulder with only, but will not let them belay me.
I personally feel people need a long time of TR belaying before they should ever attempt lead belaying. Everytime I see someone teach someone how to lead belay at the crag, while tied in, I leave. I might say something, but usually I just leave before a mess happens which is another goal of mine, never see someone get med evaced/killed. If it is someones first time climbing/belaying, teach them at home first. It is scary how most people don't realize that a solid belayer is the most important skill in climbing. Even scarier how many "self proclaimed good belayers, can't escape their belay or do simple rescues.
I also liked the comment earlier about being on belay being a contract with your partner, where your life is the colateral. From the point of on belay to off belay, the belayer is under contract to do everything possible to keep you safe and alive. Also I like the question about whats the difference in belaying witha gri gri or a tube style... nothing.
You have to trust your belayer more than your own family/wife/husband/best friend, unless they are also your belayer.
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jt512
Oct 15, 2010, 4:54 PM
Post #113 of 142
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ClimbSoHigh wrote: My biggest accomplishment so far in my 10 years of climbing is paying 100% attention for all belays I have ever give...
That's a nice thing to strive for, but I have trouble believing that anyone can have belay for 10 years and have had zero lapses of concentration. I just don't think that that's humanly possible, and so we should be aware of it and realistic about it.
In reply to: I also have a policy that if you have ever dropped a climber, including a temporary slip of concentration that makes a whipper way larger than needed, you're black listed.
Such a policy implicitly assumes that a belayer who has dropped someone is more likely to drop someone in the future than someone who hasn't. I suspect that that is a false assumption.
On a purely statistical basis, I don't know anybody who has dropped another climber more than once. On a more analytical basis, considering the sloppy or outright dangerous belay habits of the average belayer (who has never dropped anyone), I think that the average belayer is just an accident waiting to happen. Together, those two observations suggest that a belayer who has dropped someone once might actually be safer than average. How could that be so? Because they may have learned a lesson. Obviously, I would not just automatically assume that, but I'd want to know the details of the accident and hear from the belayer what he learned from it; and then I'd make a judgment about whether I could trust him.
For example, I know a guy who dropped another climber while belaying hands-off with an Eddy. He had been warned that that was dangerous, but insisted that the device was guaranteed to lock-up without assistance. Now, even if that guy now never lets go of the rope again, I doubt I would climb with him, because the fact that he didn't know that he was supposed to keep his brake hand on the rope suggests that he was so poorly informed and had such poor judgment that I'd now be wondering what else he doesn't know and is making poor judgments about.
On the other hand, I know another guy who dropped someone once using a grigri. I was there and witnessed the whole thing. I know exactly what he did wrong, and so does he. We both learned a valuable lesson from that experience, and I'll take a belay from that guy any day over one from almost any other climber I've seen belaying in the last 10 years.
In reply to: I personally feel people need a long time of TR belaying before they should ever attempt lead belaying.
I'm sorry that I seem to be disagreeing with you on everything, but there should be no inherent difference between so-called lead belay and TR belay technique. Properly performed, both involve both letting out and taking in rope; it's a matter of which is done more. Furthermore, no matter what belay technique you use, it is easer to let rope out that it is to take rope in. This is because after letting rope out, you can simply slide your brake hand back down the rope; whereas, after taking rope in, you can't (or shouldn't) shuffle your brake hand up the rope—you need to (or should) stabilize the brake side of the rope with the other hand, so that you can maintain a firm grip on the rope with your brake hand while sliding it back up. Thus taking rope in—if you actually do it correctly—is more complicated than letting rope out. And, since taking rope in is the dominant maneuver in top rope belaying, but not in lead belaying, top rope belaying is actually more difficult than lead belaying—at least at the elementary level.
When I teach someone to belay I don't teach them how to lead belay separately from how to TR belay; I teach them how to take rope in and let rope out safely. Someone who has learned to belay from me is competent to belay both leaders and top-ropers their first day out, and I have had "students" of mine belay me on easy leads their first time belaying more often than I have had them belay a top-roper.
In reply to: I also liked the comment earlier about being on belay being a contract with your partner, where your life is the colateral. From the point of on belay to off belay, the belayer is under contract to do everything possible to keep you safe and alive.
That I agree with you on. I stress the contract aspect of belaying when I teach.
In reply to: Also I like the question about whats the difference in belaying witha gri gri or a tube style... nothing.
That makes for a snappy-sounding sound bite, but like most snappy-sounding sound bites it is too simplistic and just plain wrong. If you try to feed rope through a grigri the way you do an ATC, you won't be able to get rope out fast enough, and you're going to be constantly short-roping your partner. Belaying with a grigri requires a specialized technique; there's no getting around it.
Jay
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ClimbSoHigh
Oct 15, 2010, 7:58 PM
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Nice insight, I would like to think I have never had a lapse in concentration but have at points along the way, but rarely when it comes to belaying. I did have about 5 feet of slack in the rope tr belaying once and scared my climber a little bit. He had climbed a bit, and I did not feel the slack in the rope due to rope drag and I wasn't watchin him, just feeling for slack. No where close to decking, but still I was upset I didn't have better communication with my climber about slack in the system. Another time I was affraid my climber would deck on a ledge due to rope stretch so I took as he fell and gave a hard catch to keep him off the ledge. He still had like 10 feet between him and the ledge. It was probably my 10 lead fall I caught at the time and was not used to judging rope stretch and the expected fall. Other than that I dont think I have had a single lapse of concentration and have caught tons of falls. Everytime I belay, I think to myself that I need to do what I can to keep them safe, and I hope my belayers think the same for me every time as well.
For belayer that drop people, in my mind once is too much since once can kill your climber/friend but I agree that it all depends. I won't "black list" a belayer for decking a climber that had gear pull, or blew the second bolt while trying to clip, but taking the brake hand off to eat some chips is a one time offense that will keep me from roping up with you for life (or a very long time). I understand mistakes can be valuable learning tools, but a mistake, even your first can be the end for the climber. To me eating chips while belaying means the individual takes the dangers of climbing too lightly and somewhere along the line bad stuff will happen. Just like everything in climbing, it is situation dependant. I just really do not want to deck, and consider myself a risk averse climber. I am a weekend climber and my main goal in climbing is not to get hurt (or killed), and develop good decision making skills. Whether I send a route or not is distant second to me. Thats why I read these accident reports religously so I can learn from others mistakes. I don't want to get hurt/die or have the guilty concience of hurting/killing someone else.
As to my opinion that belaying TR a bunch before lead bleaying is a good idea, I think I might have not been clear. I still teach new belayers to take in and give out rope with the ever important brake hand never leaving the brake end, but my reasoning to start people with TR fisrt is that there is considerably less impact force from a TR fall than a leader fall. I think it is easier to break someone into belaying by having them catch a bunch of TR falls to get a feel for the friction of that device and rope, before expecting them to catch a 30 foot whipper first time out. I started this way and feel this helped me learn alot about the physics of belaying before catching my first big whipper.
Lastly I agree with you that there are differences between tube style and gri gri, but the important part of the sound byte is that there should never be lax belaying b/c it is auto locking. I guess it would be more appropriate to say that there is nothing different as far as the brake hand is concerned.
And for the record, I'd rather get short roped than have my belayer let go of the brake end to hold the cam shut to pay out ropw. My solution to this is to clip at waist level when possible, and when I need to reach up for a clip for certain situations, I tell my belayer "clipping" to let him know I am about to clip over my head and to start giving the extra rope. Belayer feeds out one arm length while I pull that arms length up a bit to bite with my teeth. Then the belayer feeds out the second arms length as I reach up to clip. As long as there is good communication, I do not know why people would need to hold the cam at all if you move smoothly and controlled. If you need to hold the cam because your rope is fuzzy, thick, or just accidentally engages b/c you pulled too quick, use your thumb, not your whole hand!
All I was trying to convey from my post is that people really need to treat belaying and belayer selection a little more seriously. I see too many people treating belaying as a chore and an anoyance, and some take it lgihtly for various reasons. People spend so much time and effort buying the latest gear, studying fall factors and climbing physics, training long hours on garage woodies, having perfectly fitted shoes, yet will grab any available stranger at the crag to run up a climb.
climber "do you know how to belay?
stranger "yes"
climber "can I get a belay?"
stranger "sure!"
I see that way too much, and with gyms and sport, there are a decent amount of 5.11 - 5.12 climbers that are clueless belayers.
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socalclimber
Oct 16, 2010, 12:52 AM
Post #115 of 142
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"I also liked the comment earlier about being on belay being a contract with your partner, where your life is the colateral. From the point of on belay to off belay, the belayer is under contract to do everything possible to keep you safe and alive."
One of the main things I teach in 101 classes is that the terms On Belay, and Climbing are not statements. They are questions the climber is asking his/her belayer.
It's amazing how often I see climbers making these "statements" without the requisite safety checks. If you cannot communicate on the ground 3 feet from one another, then things are not likely to improve a 100 feet off the ground.
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Oct 16, 2010, 1:00 AM)
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yanqui
Oct 16, 2010, 4:50 PM
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jt512 wrote: I_do wrote: jt512 wrote: I_do wrote: jt512 wrote: patto wrote: jt512 wrote: In reply to: Do you suggest that a competent belay can be given if the brake strand is occasionally let go? Yes, using "classic" Petzl-approved belay method in the video.
To my knowledge all previous GriGri instructions specified that you must NEVER let go of the brake strand. If you are letting go of the brake strand then you are doing it wrong. The video mention specifically mentions reduced grip, not no grip during the 'classic' grigri style. Well, you're right about one thing. They've changed their instructions, which now only describe "method 2" in the video for feeding slack quickly. However, older versions of the instructions did say that it was permissible to use what they now call the "classic" method, and they did not show the index finger and thumb around the rope, as they seem to in the video. Keeping the index finger and thumb around the rope was a climber innovation. Here are Petzl's instructions for how to pay out slack quickly with a grigri from an old version of their website. Click on "Paying out slack with a grigri." This is what they advocated for years. Below is the relevant picture from the web page. Note the belayer's belay hand position in the third frame. It's not touching the rope. Jay With all your anal safety gripes you actually think that's a good or even acceptable idea? I have anal safety gripes? Name one. I've already answered the question of whether I think it's safe. If you want me to elaborate, try re-ask the question in a respectful manner. Jay What I don't understand is how someone who appears to be very safety conscious thinks it's a good idea to let go of the brake strand if not necessary. The reason that the "classic" method can be performed safely is that your hand is at most an inch away from the brake strand, and it is a simple matter to just slide your hand down the device and back onto the rope. You never let go and regrasp anything. Additionally, the fingers that are holding the cam open should be placed on the middle of the cam lever, where they have little leverage. It's enough to hold the cam open to pull out rope, but it would be difficult, if not impossible, to prevent the cam from engaging in response to the force of a lead fall. Like I said earlier, I've never heard of an accident caused by using this technique. There is weak evidence that this might have been the case in the present accident, but I'm skeptical. The "classic" technique is rare, in my experience, whereas far more dangerous methods of "blocking" the cam are common. Frankly, the argument is practically moot anyway, since the "classic" technique can be performed with the thumb and first one or two fingers kept around the rope. In reply to: If the girl would have looked at the climber it would probably not have been an accident. However, with the "new"method the chances of catching an unforseen fall increase, without any cost other then learning the new way (which is quite easy if you're used to a gri-gri). First of all, I'm skeptical of the claim that inattention was the most important cause of this accident. How can a belayer be so inattentive that they fail to notice 50 feet of rope running through their hands? I think it is more likely that the belayer did see the fall (perhaps not immediately), reacted improperly to it and defeated the cam. Again, owing to lack of leverage, this is difficult to do if you're employing the classic method correctly, which further leads me to believe that she was not. That said, it is completely inexcusable to not be paying close attention to your climber while they are clipping. How else can the belayer possibly know how much slack to pay out and how to properly react to a fall when the leader might have two armfuls of rope pulled out? In reply to: So considering the costs of the new benefits (very low) I don't see why you wouldn't do it. Sure the chance of it making a difference is small but if it does it makes a huge difference. Cheers I'm not convinced that the new method is actually safer than the old, provided the old method is correctly employed. With the new method I don't feel like I've got a secure grip on the rope while I'm pressing the cam down with my thumb. You can't actually hold the rope while pulling slack out (maybe with a thin enough or slick enough rope you can). In fact, I find that any friction between my hand and the rope makes it harder and slower to pull rope out. Consequently, I have a very loose grip on the rope (really not a grip at all) involving mainly my weakest two fingers, and not involving my thumb at all. That's not enough of a grip to guarantee that the cam will actuate in the event of a fall. I'm not convinced that if the rope starts to run that I could maintain control of it long enough to get my whole brake hand on the rope. In fact, I'm not convinced that the rope cannot by yanked out of my hand entirely. In contrast, with the classic method, I've almost always got at least my thumb and one or two of my strongest fingers around the rope. Even if the rope starts to run, it's not going to get jerked out my hand, and I can easily slide my hand down the rope a couple inches to get my whole brake hand on it. The only time I ever have no part of my brake hand on the rope is when the rope is so worn, dirty, or thick that I have to move my hand further up the lever in order to squeeze the cam hard enough to get rope out. Even then, sliding my hand back down on to the rope is quick, simple, and secure; and, if the rope is that difficult to get through the grigri, the grigri is going to lock up without assistance, anyway. Jay
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currupt4130
Nov 16, 2010, 1:19 AM
Post #117 of 142
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I was out climbing the other day and saw a girl doing this. Made me think of this thread and figured I'd post a picture. She had her thumb on the cam and was holding it down the entire time.
(This post was edited by currupt4130 on Nov 16, 2010, 1:21 AM)
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airscape
Nov 16, 2010, 9:11 AM
Post #118 of 142
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currupt4130 wrote: I was out climbing the other day and saw a girl doing this. Made me think of this thread and figured I'd post a picture. She had her thumb on the cam and was holding it down the entire time. [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=5355;[/image]
Lying, cheating, son of a bitch husband on the sharp end?
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Arrogant_Bastard
Nov 16, 2010, 4:50 PM
Post #120 of 142
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lena_chita wrote: currupt4130 wrote: I was out climbing the other day and saw a girl doing this. Made me think of this thread and figured I'd post a picture. She had her thumb on the cam and was holding it down the entire time. not that I am saying that it is good, but her thumb is not on the cam in this picture... just saying.
I think he's just trying to find an excuse for having pictures of girls standing next to him at the crags and feeling a need to post them on the internet.
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ClimbSoHigh
Nov 16, 2010, 5:12 PM
Post #121 of 142
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Oh, that's my belayer... HI!!
At least she is looking up! 
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jt512
Nov 16, 2010, 5:22 PM
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lena_chita wrote: currupt4130 wrote: I was out climbing the other day and saw a girl doing this. Made me think of this thread and figured I'd post a picture. She had her thumb on the cam and was holding it down the entire time. not that I am saying that it is good, but her thumb is not on the cam in this picture... just saying.
I can't actually see her thumb, but from the position of her hand I think it would just about have to be on the cam.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Nov 16, 2010, 5:22 PM)
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vegastradguy
Nov 16, 2010, 5:32 PM
Post #123 of 142
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i can see her thumb (the top of it) and its definitely on the cam.
glad shes not my belayer.
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kennoyce
Nov 16, 2010, 8:05 PM
Post #124 of 142
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jt512 wrote: lena_chita wrote: currupt4130 wrote: I was out climbing the other day and saw a girl doing this. Made me think of this thread and figured I'd post a picture. She had her thumb on the cam and was holding it down the entire time. [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=5355;[/image] not that I am saying that it is good, but her thumb is not on the cam in this picture... just saying. I can't actually see her thumb, but from the position of her hand I think it would just about have to be on the cam. Jay
It does look like her thumb is on the cam. While this is certainly not an acceptable practice by any stretch of the imagination, it is the most common mistake I see of people using the "New" belay method.
My personal favorite thing about the photo is the fact that her hands are in the incorrect "New" method position (thumb on the cam) except that she is not holding onto the brake side of the rope at all. With her brake hand in its current position, there is no way she could easily get her brake hand onto the brake side of the rope meaning that she is completely relying on the cam (which of course is being held open with her thumb) to catch the fall.
I certainly hope that currupt4130 said something to her and didn't just let her continue to belay in this fashion.
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Arrogant_Bastard
Nov 16, 2010, 8:30 PM
Post #125 of 142
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kennoyce wrote: I certainly hope that currupt4130 said something to her and didn't just let her continue to belay in this fashion.
Does posting a pic of her on the internet count?
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