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climber fell 80 feet,BIG COTTONWOOD CANYON
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majid_sabet


Sep 26, 2010, 6:40 PM
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climber fell 80 feet,BIG COTTONWOOD CANYON
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Does any one from the area knows what happened here ?

BIG COTTONWOOD CANYON --A 22-year-old rock climber was injured when he fell nearly 80 feet in Big Cottonwood Canyon Sunday.

http://www.ksl.com/...148&sid=12588657


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Sep 27, 2010, 10:15 AM)


socalclimber


Sep 26, 2010, 7:24 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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There are so many holes in the reporting of that one it could be a while before anything of substance is available.


marc801


Sep 26, 2010, 10:43 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
Does any one from the area knows what happened here ?

BIG COTTONWOOD CANYON --A 22-year-old rock climber was injured when he fell nearly 80 feet in Big Cottonwood Canyon Sunday.

http://www.ksl.com/...148&sid=12588657
For chrissakes Majid, change the title of the post. All we know is that the climber went 80' (which is the height of Dogwood crag). Any cause at this point is nothing but huge speculation. Even in the sketchy report the policeman was quoted saying the biner "...*MAY* have broken...".

This report from the Trib http://www.sltrib.com/...nds-serious.html.csp states:
In reply to:
The man was on belay while training to perform a rope rescue about 4 p.m. when his carabiner disengaged, said Unified Fire Authority Capt. Brad Taylor. Investigators do not know whether the equipment failed or if it had been hooked up incorrectly, Taylor said.
That's a far cry from "carabiner broke during descent".


(This post was edited by marc801 on Sep 26, 2010, 10:48 PM)


Bond-Vagabond


Sep 27, 2010, 8:06 AM
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Re: [marc801] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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A: The kid was climbing with friends and not part of a University of Utah rescue class.
B: The University of Utah rescue class was training in the area and first on the secene as first responders.
C: Most likely human error causing improper loading of said carabiner.
D: Some how the climber ater becoming disconnected from his rope was able to hold on to the rope until he crashed through a small tree tumbling another 15 to 20 feet to the ground.


nailzz


Sep 27, 2010, 1:38 PM
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Re: [Bond-Vagabond] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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Bond-Vagabond wrote:
A: The kid was climbing with friends and not part of a University of Utah rescue class.
B: The University of Utah rescue class was training in the area and first on the secene as first responders.
C: Most likely human error causing improper loading of said carabiner.
D: Some how the climber ater becoming disconnected from his rope was able to hold on to the rope until he crashed through a small tree tumbling another 15 to 20 feet to the ground.

Not flaming. Not trying to start a fight. But, do you have a source for this information?


arichy


Sep 27, 2010, 6:24 PM
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Re: [nailzz] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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Not sure where Bond-Vagabond got the info, but I was there and can confirm that all of what Bond-Vagabond says is true.

The University of Utah course called 911 and provided medical care until local EMS arrived- this crag is so front-country that EMS was there in approximately 10 minutes.

Full accident report at Remote Rescue Training Facebook page, discussion board.


Partner robdotcalm


Sep 27, 2010, 8:41 PM
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Re: [arichy] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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Here's a link to the accident as reported by the rescue group:
http://www.facebook.com/...1101&topic=19513

The climber was toproping and tied into the rope by using a figure-8 on a bight that was clipped to his harness (where?) using a locking carabiner. When he reached the top of the route and leaned back the bight became unattached from the carabiner.

Obviously, it is preferable to tie directly into the rope without the intermediation of a carabiner. However, as been mentioned several times on this site over the years, if you do tie using a carabiner you need to use two (the usual situation for tieing into the middle of the rope).

The climber is lucky to have survived. May his luck continue with a solid recovery. Bravo to the nearby rescue team that put its skills to good use.

Gratias et valete bene!
RobertusPunctumPacificus


curt


Sep 27, 2010, 10:27 PM
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Re: [robdotcalm] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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Very weird accident report--I also wish him a speedy and full recovery.

Curt


viciado


Sep 28, 2010, 2:33 AM
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Re: [robdotcalm] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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Glad he managed to control his fall. Here's to a speedy recovery and a hard lesson.

As pointed out, two locker will reduce the possibility of failure. As to the mechanism of failure, it is not hard to imagine that the locker was either not locked or that rope movement loosened the screw. In either case, once the gate is free to move when the rope is tensioned it is easy enough for the bight to pull it open (if only just enough to clear the nose) and then sideways which would result in the "hyper-extension" described and also release the rope.


wonderwoman


Sep 28, 2010, 7:32 AM
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Re: [robdotcalm] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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This is the second time that I have heard of an accident associated with clipping into an eight on a bight:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...i?post=711097#711097

This was amazing instinct, though!

At that moment his attachment to the knot failed (for some reason the carabiner gate “hyper-extended” and the bight of the knot came free from the carabiner) and he began to free-fall. Realizing the dire situation he was in, the climber reached out and grabbed the only thing he could- the strand of rope between the belayer and the anchor. Initially there was no counter balance on the rope and he continued to free fall, but after a few feet the knot at the end of the rope wedged up against the chains providing resistance so that he was able to slow his descent by gripping the now “fixed” strand of rope. Approximately 15 feet from the ground, he hit and broke through a tree, which further slowed his descent- and may have caused some minor injuries in the process.



arichy


Sep 28, 2010, 5:20 PM
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Re: carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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I just tried to post a photo of the busted biner here. Not sure if I got the technology right. If not, there's a photo of the broken biner on the Remote Rescue Training Facebook page.
Attachments: busted biner (9.09 KB)


majid_sabet


Sep 28, 2010, 6:20 PM
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Re: [robdotcalm] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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I have a case like this on my upcoming book where the climber ( very experienced) was killed after the fig 8 loop came off his biner and fell 45 feet during leading a sport route.



MS


potreroed


Sep 28, 2010, 7:30 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
I have a case like this on my upcoming book where the climber ( very experienced) was killed after the fig 8 loop came off his biner and fell 45 feet during leading a sport route.



MS
I can't even imagine a "very experienced" climber who would lead a route tied in that way. What a chump.


suprasoup


Sep 28, 2010, 11:43 PM
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Re: [potreroed] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
I have a case like this on my upcoming book where the climber ( very experienced) was killed after the fig 8 loop came off his biner and fell 45 feet during leading a sport route.



MS
I can't even imagine a "very experienced" climber who would lead a route tied in that way. What a chump.

Says the guy speaking ill of someone who died in an unfortunate accident.

edit: What a bizarre accident... Hope the young man has a speedy recovery. Mad props to the Rescue Team.

2nd edit: toned down the inflammatory speech...


(This post was edited by suprasoup on Sep 28, 2010, 11:51 PM)


potreroed


Sep 29, 2010, 11:27 AM
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Re: [suprasoup] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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I apologize if I offended anyone. With all due respect to his family and friends, I don't see this as an unfortunate accident but as a huge mistake by someone who should have known better.

By the way, I, too, have made some mistakes that almost cost me my life and deserve to be called a chump.


majid_sabet


Sep 29, 2010, 2:41 PM
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Re: [potreroed] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
I apologize if I offended anyone. With all due respect to his family and friends, I don't see this as an unfortunate accident but as a huge mistake by someone who should have known better.

By the way, I, too, have made some mistakes that almost cost me my life and deserve to be called a chump.

The practice of clipping to biner instead of direct tie to harness is common in TR or where too many people are climbing a common route using the same rope. I only seen it here and there in USA but in other countries, its scary.


majid_sabet


Sep 29, 2010, 2:47 PM
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Re: [potreroed] carabiner broke during descent [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
I have a case like this on my upcoming book where the climber ( very experienced) was killed after the fig 8 loop came off his biner and fell 45 feet during leading a sport route.



MS
I can't even imagine a "very experienced" climber who would lead a route tied in that way. What a chump.

experienced climbers have a tendency use the autopilot option by far more than lease experienced climbers. for some reasons, they believe that newton's gravity law evaporates when their odometer reset a few times and safety laws, some how becomes n00b's problem .


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