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Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing???
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bbowers


Sep 29, 2010, 7:21 PM
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Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing???
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I used to be on a pretty regimented lifting schedule... 5 days a week for 10 weeks , then break. Different stuff every day, I was the guy walking around with a pen and notepad tracking my progress because my workouts were so different from week to week and day to day I never could remember how many sets/reps and of what. I'm going to list the exercises I did, grouped by muscle group NOT how I did them day to day. I want to know if any of them are useful to implement for climbing. I don't care about other ones I didn't list right now... I want to know if any of what I am listing below only is useful for training for climbing. Some of it I know is, but I need some insight. I'll mark what's good and what isn't as we go along.

Here goes:

Chest-
Bench Press (barbell/dumbbell)
Wide grip bench press (barbell)
Close grip bench press (barbell)
Incline bench press (barbell/dumbbell)
Dips w/ and w/o weight
Flys (dumbbells)
Incline Flys (dumbbells)
Cable flys
Decline flys (dumbbells)

Triceps-
Overhead tricep extension (dumbbell/barbell)
Triceps pushdown
Lying tricep extension (barbell/dumbbell)
tricep bench dips (w and w/o weight)
Tricep cable extension
Reverse tricep pushdown
One arm tricep pushdown
Tricep rope pushdown

Biceps-
Bicep Curl (Barbell/dumbbell)
Preacher Curl Machine
Preacher Curl (Barbell)
Hammer Curls
Cable curls
Incline Bench curls
Concentration curls
Lying Cable curls

Forearms-
Wrist curls (barbell/dumbbells)
Reverse wrist curls (Barbell.dumbbells)

Back-
Deadlift
Front pull ups
T-bar rows
Barbell rows
Close grip pull ups
One arm row
Front lateral pulldown
Seated close grip row
Seated wide grip row
Pull ups (assisted, to fatigue)
Back extenuation (w and w/o weight)
Good mornings

Shoulders-
Arnold press
Shoulder press (dumbbell/barbell)
Lateral raise (dumbbell/cable)
Front shoulder raise (barbell/dumbbell/cable)
Shrugs (dumbbells/barbell)
Front shoulder press
Upright row (dumbbell/barbell/cable)
Bent over lateral raise (dumbbells/cable)

Abs-
Hanging leg lifts
Hanging leg lifts (to side)
Cable crunches
Oblique crunches
Roman chair lift
Raised leg crunches
Crunches
Seated leg lifts

Legs-
Squats (Barbell)
Leg press
Lying leg curl
Leg extensions
Seated Calf raises
Standing calf raises (dumbbells)
Front Squats
Lunges (barbell)
Leg extensions (one leg)
Standing leg curls
Smith machine squats
Toe raises


jt512


Sep 29, 2010, 7:26 PM
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bbowers


Sep 29, 2010, 7:38 PM
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Re: [jt512] Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing??? [In reply to]
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I can't imagine everything there in the list is wasting time...


jt512


Sep 29, 2010, 7:48 PM
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bbowers


Sep 29, 2010, 7:51 PM
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Re: [jt512] Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing??? [In reply to]
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First off I'm a climber, used to lift a long time ago. I'm still going to call bs, but whatever. I've read a ton of training books, they list exercises and lifting that can be done to supplement climbing. Obviously there's all kinds of climbing specific training, but I'm pretty sure that some of these can be used and/or modified in some way to be beneficial for climbing.


jt512


Sep 29, 2010, 8:06 PM
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Re: [bbowers] Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing??? [In reply to]
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bbowers wrote:
First off I'm a climber, used to lift a long time ago. I'm still going to call bs

You asked. I did you the courtesy of answering. And now you're "call[ing] bs."

Fine. Pretend I never posted. I'll delete my responses, and you have fun climbing 5.10b. Experience shows that there are plenty of other 5.85.10 weight lifters who will be more than happy to tell you what you want to hear.

Jay


chadnsc


Sep 29, 2010, 9:08 PM
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Re: [bbowers] Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing??? [In reply to]
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On it's own will any weight lifting realistically improve your climbing . . . No

Will some of that help to keep you muscles balanced so you don't succumb to overuse injuries brought on by climbing induced strength imbalances. . . . Yes

Will lifting weights as part of a fitness routine help keep you in shape . . . Yes

Will lifting weights as part of a fitness routine help keep you in climbing shape . . . No

Are there other ways gain the benefits of strength training without lifting weights . . . Yes

If you like to lift weights will doing so realistically hinder your climbing . . . No

Is it possible to overdue your weight lifting and hinder your climbing . . Yes

Should you be asking for work out advice from this site . . . . No

Is Jay being a little baby by taking his 'bal'l and running home . . . Yes


(This post was edited by chadnsc on Sep 29, 2010, 9:13 PM)


jt512


Sep 29, 2010, 9:27 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing??? [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:

Is Jay being a little baby by taking his 'bal'l and running home . . . Yes

Bullshit. He asked for input. I did him the favor of replying. And his response was "I'm calling bullshit." OK, it's bullshit. No problem then. 5.10b isn't all that bad, after all, now, is it?

You want my advice. Fine. I'll be happy to give it. If you do what I do, you'll likely be able to do what I do; ie, climb 5.12+.

If you're going to ask for advice in a public forum, and then tell someone who goes out of his way to respond that their advice is "bullshit," then why on earth should I leave my post out there. I don't owe it to them to help them in spite of their hubris.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 29, 2010, 9:33 PM)


whipper


Sep 29, 2010, 10:24 PM
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Re: [jt512] Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing??? [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
bbowers wrote:
First off I'm a climber, used to lift a long time ago. I'm still going to call bs

You asked. I did you the courtesy of answering. And now you're "call[ing] bs."

Fine. Pretend I never posted. I'll delete my responses, and you have fun climbing 5.10b. Experience shows that there are plenty of other 5.85.10 weight lifters who will be more than happy to tell you what you want to hear.

Jay

Jay, you talk this shit all the time....Have you ever heard of Mark Twight? Gym Jones? or the fact that I am in the weight room when I travel, and climb at a high enough level to call bullshit on you.


jt512


Sep 29, 2010, 10:37 PM
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Re: [whipper] Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing??? [In reply to]
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whipper wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bbowers wrote:
First off I'm a climber, used to lift a long time ago. I'm still going to call bs

You asked. I did you the courtesy of answering. And now you're "call[ing] bs."

Fine. Pretend I never posted. I'll delete my responses, and you have fun climbing 5.10b. Experience shows that there are plenty of other 5.85.10 weight lifters who will be more than happy to tell you what you want to hear.

Jay

Jay, you talk this shit all the time....Have you ever heard of Mark Twight? Gym Jones? or the fact that I am in the weight room when I travel, and climb at a high enough level to call bullshit on you.

Well, I'm not really sure what that means, but when I travel I'm not in the weight room and I climb harder than you. So what, if anything, is your point?

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 29, 2010, 10:45 PM)


AntinJ


Sep 29, 2010, 11:04 PM
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jomagam


Sep 30, 2010, 1:10 AM
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Re: [jt512] Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing??? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I did him the favor of replying. And his response was "I'm calling bullshit." OK, it's bullshit. No problem then. 5.10b isn't all that bad, after all, now, is it?

Well, what was your response ? He already saw it, so you're not really punishing him by removing it. Maybe others want to know too.


leyton


Sep 30, 2010, 3:11 AM
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Re: [bbowers] Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing??? [In reply to]
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bbowers wrote:

All good questions dude.

I have not been climbing too long, but I would say all of the above is good. Anything you do really is good.

The only reason I do the odd pressup is to ensure muscle balance, and like another said, to prevent injury.

I think stretching is a really good item to add to the list too, It is very very important.

Oh and for all the others out there whom climb 5.12+. Because I am short, a little weighty, and n00b, does that mean the climbs I do are harder ? if so. Why does one need to judge anothers difficultys ? Angelic


ghisino


Sep 30, 2010, 5:25 AM
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Re: [bbowers] Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing??? [In reply to]
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i find work in the weight room useful for 2 things, mainly

a)specific injury prevention work, very high reps, very low resistance. Mainly shoulder stuff, i.e. external rotation with theraband.

b)Targeting some very specific big-muscle issue that's a clear limiting factor on some climb i want to do, yet hard to train extensively by just climbing/trying the move (because, for instance, the move is also fingery and i'd risk a pulley injury by trying it too much)

it could be useful as well if you already do such a high training volume that you have no skin left and/or risk finger injuries if you try to do more. So, instead of doing nothing, you can do weight lifting stuff, at least off the comp/good conditions season when being totally burned out is noty a problem.
But i guess we are in the "international competition climber having 2 sessions a day 6 days a week" zone.

Apart from the above, the most climbing-effective way to spend your training time would be climbing, period.
Apply the notions of intensity, volume, rest, overload, supercompensation you should have learnt while weight lifting, and you will probably do better than just climbing casually.

btw if you have a weight lifting background you are probably a bit heavy for climbing, and look at how to lose some muscle, istead of bouilding it.
most successful climbers (pros, the guys who manage V10 in 2 years, etc) are rather skinny, i'd say BMI between 20 and 22.
The reason is not just strenght-to-weight ratio, if not you'd see a lot of proficient heavier climbers : there are a few, but thy are an exception.
You have to think about it as a racing car running on rather small, soft compound tyres (skin) and having rather fragile suspensions (tendons&pulleys) : go for a massive, extremely powerful engine, and you'll wear out tyres too fast and break suspensions too often...


ceebo


Sep 30, 2010, 5:43 AM
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Re: [leyton] Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing??? [In reply to]
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If it hits your muscles (burns or what ever) in the same way you get it from climbing then i think it would help, as too how much i dont know?. Im not sure what most of the things on your list mean but id take a guess 95% of it is useless in turms of getting strong for climbing. Take squats for example, your legs in climbing will push off so many diffrent angles i dont even think squats will help all that much?

Also if i learn right, their is ''how hard'' you can pull on a hold, and for ''how long'' you can do that. I think in wieght training you will only be gaining strength in the ''how hard'' part. Bare in mind on sport the first things to give in are fingers/4arms and typically due to endurence issues (or technique) both of wich i cant see gains from in wieght training.

It may have a bigger help in bouldering though, so long as the right muscles are getting traind with the wieghts.

I seem to be wrong alot, for the record Cool

Also just a pot shot, but their seems to be no mention of finger training like deadhangs etc. Perhaps it is dangerous to get the rest of your body so strong and then expect your fingers to be able to hold on tight while you power past a crux, may lead to injury and more likely just falling off.


(This post was edited by ceebo on Sep 30, 2010, 5:52 AM)


whipper


Sep 30, 2010, 7:24 AM
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Re: [jt512] Weight Lifting - Is any of this useful for climbing??? [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
whipper wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bbowers wrote:
First off I'm a climber, used to lift a long time ago. I'm still going to call bs

You asked. I did you the courtesy of answering. And now you're "call[ing] bs."

Fine. Pretend I never posted. I'll delete my responses, and you have fun climbing 5.10b. Experience shows that there are plenty of other 5.85.10 weight lifters who will be more than happy to tell you what you want to hear.

Jay

Jay, you talk this shit all the time....Have you ever heard of Mark Twight? Gym Jones? or the fact that I am in the weight room when I travel, and climb at a high enough level to call bullshit on you.

Well, I'm not really sure what that means, but when I travel I'm not in the weight room and I climb harder than you. So what, if anything, is your point?

Jay

Really Jay, you climb harder than me,,,,I doubt it. Sorry I dont happen to be one of the new kids you can intimidate on here, Not sure what my profile says, but I have read enough of your posts to have a pretty good idea of what you climb.

I do work out in every way possible, and yes, when I am not near a climbing area because I travel with work, I am in the weight room, or running the trails. When I travel to an area that has climbing, I climb.

Even if working out with weights doesn't help your climbing directly, it is not going to hurt it at all, and any higher level of fitness helps in everything you do. Of course you know that we are not talking body building here, we are talking strength training, big difference that Jay will never understand, if you. Op, dont understand it, I suggest you learn the difference.


jt512


Sep 30, 2010, 9:00 AM
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whipper wrote:
jt512 wrote:
whipper wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bbowers wrote:
First off I'm a climber, used to lift a long time ago. I'm still going to call bs

You asked. I did you the courtesy of answering. And now you're "call[ing] bs."

Fine. Pretend I never posted. I'll delete my responses, and you have fun climbing 5.10b. Experience shows that there are plenty of other 5.85.10 weight lifters who will be more than happy to tell you what you want to hear.

Jay

Jay, you talk this shit all the time....Have you ever heard of Mark Twight? Gym Jones? or the fact that I am in the weight room when I travel, and climb at a high enough level to call bullshit on you.

Well, I'm not really sure what that means, but when I travel I'm not in the weight room and I climb harder than you. So what, if anything, is your point?

Jay

Really Jay, you climb harder than me,,,,I doubt it. Sorry I dont happen to be one of the new kids you can intimidate on here, Not sure what my profile says, but I have read enough of your posts to have a pretty good idea of what you climb.

I do work out in every way possible, and yes, when I am not near a climbing area because I travel with work, I am in the weight room, or running the trails. When I travel to an area that has climbing, I climb.

Even if working out with weights doesn't help your climbing directly, it is not going to hurt it at all, and any higher level of fitness helps in everything you do. Of course you know that we are not talking body building here, we are talking strength training, big difference that Jay will never understand, if you. Op, dont understand it, I suggest you learn the difference.

In other words, you had no real disagreement with me in the first place, and just wanted to pick a fight.


onceahardman


Sep 30, 2010, 9:09 AM
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He didn't say, "weight training won't help your climbing directly"...He said, "even if weight training won't help"...

Those mean different things.

Last I heard you weren't climbing as much, due to injury. Sounds like the guy weight training has no such problem. Just a single data point, but it IS a single data point.

I sincerely hope your injuries improve though. I'd be happy to answer any specific questions.


jt512


Sep 30, 2010, 9:34 AM
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onceahardman wrote:
He didn't say, "weight training won't help your climbing directly"...He said, "even if weight training won't help"...

Those mean different things.

Last I heard you weren't climbing as much, due to injury. Sounds like the guy weight training has no such problem. Just a single data point, but it IS a single data point.

I sincerely hope your injuries improve though. I'd be happy to answer any specific questions.

Sounds like a data entry error.

Jay


hugepedro


Sep 30, 2010, 9:38 AM
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leyton wrote:
I have not been climbing too long, but I would say all of the above is good. Anything you do really is good.

Awesome!


onceahardman


Sep 30, 2010, 9:38 AM
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jt512 wrote:
onceahardman wrote:
He didn't say, "weight training won't help your climbing directly"...He said, "even if weight training won't help"...

Those mean different things.

Last I heard you weren't climbing as much, due to injury. Sounds like the guy weight training has no such problem. Just a single data point, but it IS a single data point.

I sincerely hope your injuries improve though. I'd be happy to answer any specific questions.

Sounds like a data entry error.

Jay


How unusual for you to be totally non-responsive.


malcolm777b


Sep 30, 2010, 11:39 AM
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ceebo wrote:
If it hits your muscles (burns or what ever) in the same way you get it from climbing then i think it would help, as too how much i dont know?. Im not sure what most of the things on your list mean but id take a guess 95% of it is useless in turms of getting strong for climbing. Take squats for example, your legs in climbing will push off so many diffrent angles i dont even think squats will help all that much?

I disagree. Squats are probably one of the best exercises on that list. You should consider the squat as one of the best core exercises you can perform, rather than a leg exercise.


jt512


Sep 30, 2010, 12:01 PM
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onceahardman wrote:
jt512 wrote:
onceahardman wrote:
He didn't say, "weight training won't help your climbing directly"...He said, "even if weight training won't help"...

Those mean different things.

Last I heard you weren't climbing as much, due to injury. Sounds like the guy weight training has no such problem. Just a single data point, but it IS a single data point.

I sincerely hope your injuries improve though. I'd be happy to answer any specific questions.

Sounds like a data entry error.

Jay


How unusual for you to be totally non-responsive.

How unusual for you to be totally wrong.

I deleted my posts for a reason. All the OP wants is affirmation from other 5.85.10 climbers just like him. And that's pretty much what he's getting. If he wants to remain a 5.10 climber all his life, then he should continue his program of non-specific training. That seems to be his plan, since he called advice to do otherwise "bullshit."

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 30, 2010, 12:07 PM)


hellavelo


Sep 30, 2010, 12:25 PM
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I think it all boils down to what you want to excel at. After primarily climbing routes, I have recently been bouldering almost exclusively. I did a 3 month cycle where I mostly lifted and climbed a couple volume days a week and it has given me a great platform to train on. I canno train harder and more effectively than before.

BUT...I believe that there is a certain point that you should start training strength specifically. I believe that you don't need to focus on strength until you are a V6 climber...or somewhere around 12b/c for routes. From my experience, and what I have witnessed in my community, these grades are EASILY attainable simply through technique practice and consistent climbing.

That said, after I had been climbing V7/8 for a few years, I decided that I needed a little bit of a more consistent strength base. After doing this cycle my climbing has morphed completely...in a great way.


disturbingthepeace


Sep 30, 2010, 2:12 PM
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I'm guessing that your past lifting has built you a great base from which you can build your climbing from. If you've been lifting like this for several year than large muscle group strength is not going to your Limiting Factor. So in this regard I would argue that very little of the exercises you are doing is going to be useful in training for climbing.

I began climbing after being active in lifting. I lifted for almost 6 years, 3 times a week. The results were great and it certainly helped me build a good strength base for climbing and injury prevention in the large muscle groups. However after trying to do both (lift and climb) I realized that getting stronger in these large muscle groups wasn't going to help my climbing as much as working on my finger strength and movement skills. After I quit lifting (beyond some lightweight elbow exercises) my climbing greatly improved. For one my elbows got a chance to recover and two, I had more energy and time for climbing.

So if I were you and want to get better at climbing, I would take a hard look at your weaknesses (might be best to have someone else point them out to you, or even pay a climbing trainer because if you've spent money on it maybe you'll listen to them). If your weakness isn't large muscle groups, then I would greatly scale back the lifting, and use that time for climbing. If you feel it is necessary keep some shoulder exercises and wrist rotation exercises in for injury prevention. I often do some ab exercises after my climbing workout.

Disclaimer: This advice is written from a sport / trad / bouldering standpoint. If you want to climb everest or haul pigs for Tommy on the side of El Cap then what your doing is probably great. Also lifting / running / swimming / whatever is going to be better for you on the weeks you can't climb then sitting on the couch drinking beers.

Also as a plus once your somewhere around 12+ / V7 you can start hangboarding training and carry your pen and notepad to the climbing gym to track your hangboarding and campus workouts.

Good luck and have fun!

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