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Using an 8 mm rope
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Lazlo


Oct 3, 2010, 1:34 PM
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Using an 8 mm rope
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I have an 8.2 Dragonfly rope.

I'm trying to use it more lately in more of the situations where I normally use a much larger rope. I'm doing this, because this is my main mountaineering rope, but everything I've practiced in the past has been with a thicker rope.

example; self rescue situations, crevasse rescue practice, ascending, rappelling, ect.

This rope is much more difficult to handle when it's bearing full body weight (ie, rappels are more tenuous, prussic hitches don't hold as well)

What are some tips and tricks that I can use to make these situations safer and more manageable?

Example of 'tricks': Three wrap prussic over standard two wrap. Adding a carabiner brake in addition to my rappel device.

I'm thinking of using a small ascender instead of prussics. Thoughts on the Ropeman? (I hate Tiblocs)



Thoughts for a belay device?

Reversino?


DMM Buggette?


Toucan?



bill413


Oct 3, 2010, 1:53 PM
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Re: [Lazlo] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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Lazlo wrote:
I have an 8.2 Dragonfly rope.

I'm trying to use it more lately in more of the situations where I normally use a much larger rope. I'm doing this, because this is my main mountaineering rope, but everything I've practiced in the past has been with a thicker rope.

example; self rescue situations, crevasse rescue practice, ascending, rappelling, ect.

This rope is much more difficult to handle when it's bearing full body weight (ie, rappels are more tenuous, prussic hitches don't hold as well)

What are some tips and tricks that I can use to make these situations safer and more manageable?

Example of 'tricks': Three wrap prussic over standard two wrap. Adding a carabiner brake in addition to my rappel device.

I'm thinking of using a small ascender instead of prussics. Thoughts on the Ropeman? (I hate Tiblocs)
[image]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHf1ixUZahNp_h9Fplb--_ZKqkIjV1iE8xEStwN8dLAKLOLMo&t=1&usg=__JDAS6TUXXCf_KUoC7nYyPiVhRbM=[/image]


Thoughts for a belay device?

Reversino?
[image]http://gearflogger.typepad.com/weblog/images/2008/01/06/reversino.jpg[/image]

DMM Buggette?
[image]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIVnNDr-KXBFffIsKknDHVA_KW6xqQIJBmxDmpuiEbmkUF9kg&t=1&usg=__S8ES_4sdUWXMNYQ-XzTMTqO3sXs=[/image]

Toucan?
[image]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfmOGYHMqNJaO_2byWOoS4T85UkK6Z38STc3FN0oQqjjKzsfo&t=1&usg=__ijkAzOrJ87zb-LWa8Fl3eOcH7E8=[/image]

Belay device: Munter Hitch.
Otherwise: Maybe Reversino with 2 biners (N.B. recommendation made on theory, not real world testing). Check manufacturers specs for minimum recommended diameter.

Prussiks: General rule is that the fatter the prussik material is relative to the rope, the more raps will be needed.


cruxstacean


Oct 3, 2010, 3:46 PM
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Re: [Lazlo] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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Lazlo wrote:
I have an 8.2 Dragonfly rope.

I'm trying to use it more lately in more of the situations where I normally use a much larger rope. I'm doing this, because this is my main mountaineering rope, but everything I've practiced in the past has been with a thicker rope.

example; self rescue situations, crevasse rescue practice, ascending, rappelling, ect.

This rope is much more difficult to handle when it's bearing full body weight (ie, rappels are more tenuous, prussic hitches don't hold as well)

What are some tips and tricks that I can use to make these situations safer and more manageable?

Example of 'tricks': Three wrap prussic over standard two wrap. Adding a carabiner brake in addition to my rappel device.

I'm thinking of using a small ascender instead of prussics. Thoughts on the Ropeman? (I hate Tiblocs)
[image]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHf1ixUZahNp_h9Fplb--_ZKqkIjV1iE8xEStwN8dLAKLOLMo&t=1&usg=__JDAS6TUXXCf_KUoC7nYyPiVhRbM=[/image]


Thoughts for a belay device?

Reversino?
[image]http://gearflogger.typepad.com/weblog/images/2008/01/06/reversino.jpg[/image]

DMM Buggette?
[image]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIVnNDr-KXBFffIsKknDHVA_KW6xqQIJBmxDmpuiEbmkUF9kg&t=1&usg=__S8ES_4sdUWXMNYQ-XzTMTqO3sXs=[/image]

Toucan?
[image]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfmOGYHMqNJaO_2byWOoS4T85UkK6Z38STc3FN0oQqjjKzsfo&t=1&usg=__ijkAzOrJ87zb-LWa8Fl3eOcH7E8=[/image]

The Reversino is designed for small ropes using one normal biner. Probably a good choice.


altelis


Oct 3, 2010, 6:17 PM
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Re: [Lazlo] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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I really like the Ushba Basic ascender. Works on skinny ropes really well, and I really like integrating in as part of a glacier rig instead of an ascender or prussik.

And if I'm reading everything right its lighter too...


Lazlo


Oct 4, 2010, 7:43 AM
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Re: [altelis] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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altelis wrote:
I really like the Ushba Basic ascender. Works on skinny ropes really well, and I really like integrating in as part of a glacier rig instead of an ascender or prussik.

And if I'm reading everything right its lighter too...

Awesome! I hadn't thought of the Ushba. A friend of mine swears by it for TR solo.

If you used it in a 2:1, would you use it much like you would a Gri-gri?

Can it be placed on a taut rope? (ie escaping the system during crevasse rescue)


altelis


Oct 4, 2010, 9:01 AM
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Re: [Lazlo] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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Yes and No.

The beauty is that the rope runs straight through the device, no kinks, and you can slap it on a loaded line. It is, for all intents and purposes, exactly like a prussic.

So then that means no, you don't use it like a grigri in a 2:1. Again, since the rope runs straight through the Ushba, it exactly takes the place of a prussic.


rangerrob


Oct 4, 2010, 9:11 AM
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Re: [altelis] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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To reiterate an earlier poster on this, the bigger the diameter difference between prussik and rope, the better the bite. If you're using a 8MM rope and 6 mm prussik then you might want to consider going down to 5.5mm cord for your prussik. You can use all the fancy little gadgets you want, but nothing beats the versatility oif some skinny cord. And oh yeah.....a +1 for the Munter.

Light is right! Old school is way cool!
RR


Lazlo


Oct 4, 2010, 9:45 AM
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Re: [rangerrob] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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I agree with you. The prussic cords will never leave my harness.

I always use 5 mm prussic cords.

I got to thinking about the gear I already have. I have a mini trax (quick google search returns that it operates on 8mm-13mm ropes.) Will go on a taut line and also will work like a gri-gri (in a haul system). I haven't tried it as a harness ascender, but I bet it would be pretty smooth. Also fantastic for TR solo.

...and I could leave a pulley at home. That negates the extra weight.

I'll have to mess with it on my 8mm

Might have to pick up a Reversino.

(edit to add clarity on Grigri comment.)


(This post was edited by Lazlo on Oct 4, 2010, 9:50 AM)


sspssp


Oct 4, 2010, 2:35 PM
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Re: [Lazlo] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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I've been happy with the Trango Jaws for a belay device, but I'm sure other's also work. And a leather glove (or some other glove) that gives a good grip helps.

Yea, for the prussics to work it is going to take a pretty skinny cord. I've jugged with ropemen and find they work pretty good, but jugging that skinny of rope is not going to be that comforting.


hugepedro


Oct 7, 2010, 12:07 AM
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Re: [Lazlo] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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Lazlo wrote:
I agree with you. The prussic cords will never leave my harness.

I always use 5 mm prussic cords.

I got to thinking about the gear I already have. I have a mini trax (quick google search returns that it operates on 8mm-13mm ropes.) Will go on a taut line and also will work like a gri-gri (in a haul system). I haven't tried it as a harness ascender, but I bet it would be pretty smooth. Also fantastic for TR solo.

...and I could leave a pulley at home. That negates the extra weight.

I'll have to mess with it on my 8mm

Might have to pick up a Reversino.

(edit to add clarity on Grigri comment.)

Forget the Reversino, get the Reverso 3. I use it on my 7.7mm twins and it works great, and it can handle thicker cord as well, so, 1 device for all your ropes.


Skabbi


Oct 7, 2010, 3:55 AM
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Re: [Lazlo] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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Hi

I used a normal reverso with my Beal ice-lines (8.1mm) for years without a problem. Last season I dropped my reverso and decided to pick up the reversino to replace it. I don't know why, since they worked fine with the normal reverso.

Anyway, I hate the reversino. It's a complete pain to thread with stiff and/or frozen ropes, even the skinniest ones. Same goes for feeding rope through it. Maybe it's usable for twins but for 8.0-8.5 mm half-ropes I'd look for something else.

Skabbi


brokesomeribs


Oct 7, 2010, 6:02 PM
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Re: [altelis] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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The Ushba is documented to cut ropes at about 5.5 kN. Make absolutely sure that your ropes stay taut so you can't take a dynamic fall on it.


EvilMonkey


Nov 2, 2010, 5:32 AM
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Re: [Lazlo] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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i use a reversino with my 8.1 ropes. works great. no problems at all. my ropes are in good shape and never really freeze-up on me too bad though. as someone in an earlier post mentioned, the reverso 3 was introduced to handle large and small diameter ropes. i'm sure it works great. reverso/reversino can also be used as an ascender, so there you go.


OutdoorsNut


Dec 15, 2010, 7:43 PM
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Re: [EvilMonkey] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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If you go with the Ropeman, get the Ropeman 2. It works with 8.5 ropes per spec. With a fat locker it should work on an 8.2. YMMV.


majid_sabet


Dec 15, 2010, 10:29 PM
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Re: [Lazlo] Using an 8 mm rope [In reply to]
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The thickness of the prusic has to be between 50%-70% of the rope dia you are using so on 8.2, the P cord must be 5mm-6 mm max with min 3 wrap.

The best rap device for smaller rope is 8 cause it offers you several friction combination.All other devices requires a second biner or has to be made to handle smaller rope.


USnavy


Dec 15, 2010, 10:59 PM
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Munter Hitch FTW. You can create as much friction as you want by adding additional wraps around the spine of the carabiner.


summerprophet


Dec 16, 2010, 1:09 PM
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USnavy wrote:
Munter Hitch FTW. You can create as much friction as you want by adding additional wraps around the spine of the carabiner.

Dear lord... .don't ever do this with my rope.

For additional friction with a munter, research "Monster Munter", that would be a far better solution.


Lazlo


Dec 17, 2010, 5:59 AM
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Monster



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