http://vimeo.com/15728237

And now you know why the PAS is superior to other systems.

Please ignore the fact that she is anchored with the rope. Thank you.

This seems to be a response to people on RC.com that advocate building the anchor itself out of the PAS. Please show me those people. Honestly, I feel like I just don't see people advocating that. What I generally see is people generally advocating it as either just a connection while putting together an anchor (especially if it's going to be made out of cordelette) or for rapping.

Fixed!

I watched the entire video. I am still perplexed as to what benefit the POS has over gear I already own and carry along. Other than spending my hard earned on stuff I really do not need. I already am tied into the rope, it is right there, seems prudent to use it. Gear is getting slung, so I have a sling or two that are along for the ride also, I already own them, and they are right there.

I did notice her anchored in with the rope, just like I do. And the thousands of other climbers I have encountered this year out in many destination crags. Why exactly did she need to change over to the POS? I don't know either, unless it was to earn her keep with the manufacturer. Ahhh, something going on here.

I thought perhaps when she got to the part of rapping with an injured client or haul bag, that perhaps was where this device could justify it's existence. Nope, I was wrong again. Why is it we need to "BUY" this thing that is just like all the other things? Ok slightly different than the others things just like it.

Oh, and she isn't much of a guide if she cannot clip both bolts with one daisy,(pretty basic skill) which aren't even smart to anchor off with anyway(Why is she anchoring with a daisy? Against every manufacturers advice?). Just a lot of smoke and mirrors here, and a rather long video of simple procedures for something I see no real benefit in. And that statement coming from a gear whore.

Burly Bob

Don't do that.

If you can't show me how anything but a small minority of posts advocate building the anchor itself out of a PAS, then just say so, delete your post, correct mine, and re-consider posting on RC.com

I use the rope when I build anchors. I dont, however, when I'm rapping. It is in this case that many people find the usefulness of a PAS.

Well sure, if you want to be a shithead.

1.) I don't see what the claim of building an anchor out of the PAS has to do with it's use in general or facetious content of the video I provided.

2.) The majority of use for the PAS that I've seen advocated on this site is as a tie in (or an anchor) at the top of a single pitch sport climb with two bolts while rethreading. I'll let you do the search for that, those claims are abundant and easy to find.

3.) If you had watched the entire video (it is boring and silly so I don't blame you if you didn't) you would see that the PAS is also demonstrated in use prior to a rap and as a rap extension.

Now quit your bitching and appreciate the fact that she is tied in, or anchored in, with her rope and not the PAS.

Read my very first sentence again (without your edits). It is directly related to the last sentence of your OP.


If you're on a two pitch sport climb then you most likely just have draws or nothing. Whether you bring slings or a PAS, you're carrying specialized gear that isn't otherwise useful.


I did watch the entire video. I saw that. I never said that they didn't demonstrate the PAS as useful for setting up a rap and extending one.


Here we are, finally back to your last OP sentence. For my response, see my first sentence(s) in this thread.

http://vimeo.com/15728237

And now you know why the PAS is superior to other systems.

Please ignore the fact that she is anchored with the rope. Thank you.

1. Someone mentioned using the PAS for building an achor. Why introduce additional static material into the system? If you're not using the rope by itself, a dynamic cordelette (such as Sterling's) would be preferable, in my mind.

2. Interesting that the guide (at the end of the video) set up her rappel and then let go of the brake side of her rope (with no leg wraps or autoblock, etc.) while she unclipped herself from the anchor. A weird oversight in an instructional video, isn't it?

If you're on a two pitch sport climb then you most likely just have draws or nothing. Whether you bring slings or a PAS, you're carrying specialized gear that isn't otherwise useful.

At approx 01:30 into the vid, the Metolius Ambassador advocated that a climber can use just one PAS to anchor as demonstrated. With that set-up, the attachment of the climber to both anchor bolts would still end up relying on the integrity of each one of the lower PAS loops between (and including) the PAS end loop girth hitched onto the harness and the mid-loop that was clipped by one of the biners to one of the anchor bolts. A single-point failure of any one of those lower PAS loops would result in complete detachment and catastrophic failure of the entire PAS anchoring system.

Each of the PAS linking loops consists of one single loop, as in each is not consisting of an inner and an outer loop sewn together like the redundant belay loop of a harness. The rope has long been commonly accepted as one piece of climbing equipment that usually needs not be redundant. Is Metolius and its ambassador suggesting that each linking loop on the PAS should now also be considered as "unfailable" like the rope? Has ten bartacks on 16 mm slings of 27% dyneema and 73% nylon become another accepted standard for "unfailability" that would no longer require that particular component of the system to be redundant?

I mean, it's great if that's the case. And it would be important and helpful to state that very clearly on the paperwork that comes with the newly purchased product or on the product webpage:
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/...l_anchor_system.html

But the PAS description on the Metolius website above only says that the PAS is safer than daisy chains because the latter is designed for body weight applications only, and safer than slings or quickdraws at the anchor without explicitly stating why, and did not give any indication of extra "unfailability" that would exempt any portion of the PAS from the usual redundancy requirement of anchoring.

Considering also there exists evidence that the PAS can fail:
http://www.supertopo.com/...rsonal-Anchor-System
http://www.caves.org/...yardsPartII-2006.pdf
with breakage at fall factor of 1.25 (test #29) and fusing of the PAS first and second loops on the test weight side at fall factor of 1.00 (test #28), the suggested use of only one PAS for anchoring might well be quite questionable.

Anyway, there's all that if one is into using either the daisy chain (plus sling) or the PAS for anchoring purposes. I happen to not use either and have gotten along fine for many years without either, as many others have, and am still convinced today that whatever silly system that I use is just as safe (or possibly safer based on some daisy and PAS applications out there) and more convenient overall than both. But that's just me.

So I'm not a PAS fan, but I wouldn't describe slings as specialized gear, they're about as versatile as it comes. they may be rarely used on a sport climb, but you still could run into a bolt that you want to have a longer runner on.

Two comments... or questions:

1. Someone mentioned using the PAS for building an achor. Why introduce additional static material into the system? If you're not using the rope by itself, a dynamic cordelette (such as Sterling's) would be preferable, in my mind.