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Ice Screw Sizes?
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northcave


Oct 19, 2010, 1:46 AM
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Ice Screw Sizes?
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I'm in the market for a couple of ice screws. Since i only want two for now what lengths are best. 13/17/22.

I know they vary but am i best getting two medium or one short one long?

Opinions please?


cantbuymefriends


Oct 19, 2010, 2:35 AM
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Re: [northcave] Ice Screw Sizes? [In reply to]
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What are you gonna use'em for?
Ice climbing/scrambling? (since you're only planning on buying 2)
Drilling rap anchors/Abalakov's?
Crevasse rescue?
Hauling frozen bodies out of freezer rooms?
Other?

For option 1, I'd go with two 16-17 cm's.
For option 2-4, I'd go with two 22 cm, or maybe one 19 and one 22, depending on your local conditions.
That's my personal opinion, others will probably think different.


Guran


Oct 19, 2010, 4:27 AM
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Re: [cantbuymefriends] Ice Screw Sizes? [In reply to]
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^^^^ What he said.

I assume you just want two "personal" screws to anchor with if needed, right?

OK, get one medium (~17cm) and one long (~22cm). Unless you're on really crappy ice, at least one of them will be good. The shorter one will go in quicker and give you something to tie into. The longer one will be great for abalakovs.


shoo


Oct 19, 2010, 6:56 AM
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Re: [northcave] Ice Screw Sizes? [In reply to]
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northcave wrote:
I'm in the market for a couple of ice screws. Since i only want two for now what lengths are best. 13/17/22.

I know they vary but am i best getting two medium or one short one long?

Opinions please?

I third the "what the hell are you intending on doing with them?"

If you're doing alpiney stuff, I would suggest getting one super long (22cm) for making v-threads when the ice is fat, and the shorty for pro where the ice is thin.

If you're planning on doing any kind of real technical ice climbing, you are probably better off with a 22 and a 16, since you'll more likely be climbing things when they are fat. However, it isn't going to help you much to have just 2 screws, so whatever.


northcave


Oct 19, 2010, 7:03 AM
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Ok its just general use. I don't ice climb as such but generally do easy ski mountaineering up to PD. The screws would just be for emergency situations or where we can't get any other get into mixed terrain. Hence why i don't want to lug a full rack of screws. I thought two would be nice compromise especially if the other person has a couple also.

Cheers for the advice though... a long and a medium i think would be ideal based on the suggestions :)


shoo


Oct 19, 2010, 7:42 AM
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I would stick with a long and a shorty. The short and medium screws typically have the same amount of thread on them, which is where the strength of the placement comes from. The main advantage of longer screws is really for getting to nicer ice deeper in, since the thread only goes so far anyway. They aren't really that much "stronger" if you're placing them correctly in good ice.

In the case of ski mountaineering, you'll probably be placing in low-angle type of stuff where you won't be seeing high force falls anyway. You'll also rarely be in a situation in which you couldn't bash away at crappy surface ice if you needed to. The shorty is easier to carry, slightly lighter, and faster to place when the surface ice is good.

BTW, what screws are you planning on getting?


northcave


Oct 19, 2010, 8:01 AM
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shoo wrote:

BTW, what screws are you planning on getting?

Not sure. Maybe DMM? Supporting the local manufacturer lol


Colinhoglund


Oct 19, 2010, 8:02 AM
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Re: [northcave] Ice Screw Sizes? [In reply to]
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1+
Go for a long and a medium. Don't get a stubby though. Since surface glacial ice tends to have some kind of sunbaking and a fair amount of air in it, you'll want something that is more likely to get to the better ice below the surface. Remember its fast and light, there is nothing fast about digging to find a stubby placement compared to a few extra grams of a medium screw. Some might not agree, but a 16cm screw has a 60% better chance of hitting good ice then a 10cm one.


shoo


Oct 19, 2010, 8:40 AM
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Colinhoglund wrote:
1+
Go for a long and a medium. Don't get a stubby though. Since surface glacial ice tends to have some kind of sunbaking and a fair amount of air in it, you'll want something that is more likely to get to the better ice below the surface. Remember its fast and light, there is nothing fast about digging to find a stubby placement compared to a few extra grams of a medium screw.

Good points. My experience is with ice in the northeast US, which is in no way glacial ice. Glacial ice, go longer. More rocky stuff, go shorter. The disadvantage of longer screws is when you can't place them that deep (i.e. rock underneath, hollows out under the surface ice, etc.). Then you have to sling the screws short, which isn't all that effective if you're placing your screws at the correct angle or pull other shenanigans. Time wasted, strength compromised.

I would hardly call a 13cm a stubby, though. 13cm is still long enough to be called a general use size. 10cm is cutting things pretty short unless you're going all alpine rock/mixed.


AntinJ


Oct 19, 2010, 10:07 AM
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22 & a 13!

Noah - I thought you were in YOS, get off RC and go climbing!


shoo


Oct 19, 2010, 11:01 AM
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Re: [AntinJ] Ice Screw Sizes? [In reply to]
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northcave wrote:
shoo wrote:

BTW, what screws are you planning on getting?

Not sure. Maybe DMM? Supporting the local manufacturer lol

I would suggest something with a turny thumb screw mechanism. They are substantially faster to place, though I've never used a non-speed turning screw to tell you from personal experience. Grivel, Petzl, and BD all make great screws. Haven't ever placed (or even seen) DMM's offering, but no thumb screw = no dice for me.

[Off topic]

AntinJ wrote:
Noah - I thought you were in YOS, get off RC and go climbing!

Got back on Thursday. Yos = ridiculousness. Lots of good stories. Will be back there for sure.

[/Off topic]


(This post was edited by shoo on Oct 19, 2010, 11:01 AM)


Guran


Oct 20, 2010, 3:39 AM
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Re: [shoo] Ice Screw Sizes? [In reply to]
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shoo wrote:
I would suggest something with a turny thumb screw mechanism. They are substantially faster to place, though I've never used a non-speed turning screw to tell you from personal experience. Grivel, Petzl, and BD all make great screws. Haven't ever placed (or even seen) DMM's offering, but no thumb screw = no dice for me.

Seconded.
The Grivel 360 is by far the easiest screw to place that I've used, but a bit of a pain to rack.
Black diamond express is almost as easy and racks far better.
Petzls laser sonic is ok... not as easy to place as the other two but very convenient to clean.


julio412


Nov 2, 2010, 4:25 PM
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This advice maybe a little late, but here it goes anyway.
Since you're carrying these as backup on moderate icy terrain, I'd recommend 2 titanium 20 cm screws.
Titanium is lighter, so i think you'd be more inclined to carry them.
The main thing though is the bore size; if you can find the larger bore size screws( about an 1" dia.)( ebay. neice.com, summitpost,etc)this would greatly help in holding strength in somewhat softer, possibly layered slab like conditions.Ice forming on slopes differs than in gullies or waterice, as it is more likely to be formed by wind and sun vs. melting and /or compression and time.Granted these don't place as easily as a good steel screw, it's more a question of surface area vs. depth, as you'll probably end up bottoming out on some rock slab anyway.
I've only ridden one slab avalanche; that's enough, thank you very much.


qwert


Nov 8, 2010, 2:33 AM
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julio412 wrote:
This advice maybe a little late, but here it goes anyway.
Since you're carrying these as backup on moderate icy terrain, I'd recommend 2 titanium 20 cm screws.
Titanium is lighter, so i think you'd be more inclined to carry them.
The main thing though is the bore size; if you can find the larger bore size screws( about an 1" dia.)( ebay. neice.com, summitpost,etc)this would greatly help in holding strength in somewhat softer, possibly layered slab like conditions.Ice forming on slopes differs than in gullies or waterice, as it is more likely to be formed by wind and sun vs. melting and /or compression and time.Granted these don't place as easily as a good steel screw, it's more a question of surface area vs. depth, as you'll probably end up bottoming out on some rock slab anyway.
I've only ridden one slab avalanche; that's enough, thank you very much.
Stay away from titanium screws!
(unless i missed something, and you can now actually get some that work as more than just a conversation piece)

Especially if you use it as a backup/emergency device, you want something that you can get in fast and secure.

qwert


brokesomeribs


Nov 8, 2010, 10:53 AM
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This advice stopped making sense years ago.

The newest steel screws from Grivel, BD, etc are infinitely better, stronger, faster, and safer. Additionally, new advances in machining the steel tubes have reduced wall thickness to the point that the steel screws are lighter than titanium screws.


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