What books or other sources? This isn't a universal rule. Wouldn't you want to be clipped into the previous piece before committing to the next one?

Long and Middendorf say to wait until your waist is even with the piece, but they add "usually".

The description from FISH says to clip in when you're still standing on the previous piece.

I deff dont clip the piece I am standing on, there is no point, its not like you are going to fall off of it, and if it blows, then you did nothing but just increase your fall. Clip it while still low in the aiders after moving on to the next piece.
You are right, tough, about no "rules" there might be times, such as right over a ledge, that it would be prudent. But a big thing about improving your aid climbing is to not be scared, clipping the piece you are on just means you are trying to falsely alleviate the fear, there is usually no real benefit.

Would it make sense to clip ahead to the next piece if you are sure that it is solid especially if the one you're on is marginal?

No, you gain nothing other than cluster. It is aid. You only fall if the piece rips, clipping it does nothing.

Burly Bob

Another question from a noobie here:

Reading through various materials/sources/books etc., it said that one should only clip the rope in the piece after removing the bottom aider w/o explaining why. What are the reasons beside it being less of a cluster to deal with? Many thanks.

If you are on a hook, and the next piece is a bolt, sure, clip that bolt with the rope as soon as you can, but mostly Burly Bob is right.

IF you fell after clipping the piece you are standing on (and that means slipping and falling out of your aiders), you're going to take a daisy fall regardless of whether you clipped the rope to your current piece or not. So, one of two things happen: 1) Daisy fall rips piece and you fall to your next good piece (longer fall from the extra rope out from clipping the current piece), 2) Daisy arrests fall and does not rip piece (clipping current piece didn't do anything). Since there is no advantage to clip the piece you are currently standing on, why deal with the cluster by adding the rope and additional biners/draws?

You're assuming a particular sequence, that he's still attached (loosely) with his daisy after clipping the rope, and that the piece is above his waist.

I am assuming that he is not unclipping the daisy from the piece/aider. If he isn't, he better be clipping SOMETHING, either the rope or a draw to the aider, or his aider and piece are most likely gone if the piece rips.

And no, I am not assuming that the piece is above his waist. He can be top stepped, or sub-top stepped (ie. piece below waist) and still take a daisy fall.

We were talking about the rope being clipped. If he's clipped in short to a loop or a draw, or the piece is above him and the daisy is tight, or he has unclipped his daisy from the piece, then no daisy fall. On some aid some people don't even use daisies.

Your conclusion is only true for some techniques and sequences.

You were assuming the piece is above his waist in your first case, where the piece he's on rips. You said "longer fall from extra rope out". That's only true if he clips above his waist.

I think it's safe to say though, that it is very common to have daisy chains connected to the aiders pretty much full time.

If you are clipped in short, or with a draw and are levering on it into the top step or sub-top step and somehow fall, technically it is the same thing as a daisy fall.

If you're going to clip the rope to the piece you're currently on, it's probably safe to say that you aren't going to wait until you're above the piece

I must freely admit that I don't usually consider sequences that don't use daisy chains because it seems like too much risk of dropping aiders, or losing an aider clipped to the piece if you fail a bounce test. The sequence where you clip a daisy, then unclip after the bounce test, then clip the rope to the piece seems like too many steps to move efficiently

That's irrelevent as to whether or not you've clipped the rope.

No, it isn't safe to say that. Xtrmecat posted that he usually reaches down to clip the rope. That Long/Middendorf book recommends clipping when you're even with the piece, not below it. Macnamara says to clip the rope to the previous piece after you've clipped in close to the next piece.

That's your opinion. But you've made a blanket statement based on your own preference, ignoring the fact that many other people, accomplished climbers, do things differently. It can depend on the situation as much as personal preference.

Do you always use the same gear and sequence when aiding regardless of terrain and difficulty?

I see nobody saying to clip after you're above the piece that you're standing on. I've never heard of someone doing that, because it doesn't make sense. Xtrmecat was talking about clipping the piece AFTER he's on the new one....same with Macnamara.

Ok, you got me...I made a statement based on the use of a static connection to the aiders which covers the great majority of aid techniques. So, why exactly are you arguing with me, instead of simply pointing out another scenario, and the advantages/disadvantages for the benefit of the OP?

Wow, you guys have nuked the hell out of this aid climbing..
put the books down and go get some miles under your feet..


-Zephyr