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wiki
Oct 27, 2010, 4:57 AM
Post #26 of 111
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airscape wrote: wiki wrote: Hmmm. how to explain... I mean... When the cam is engaged, does the butt-end of the handle stick out (the bit everyone grabs when they feed rope in the Non-Petzl-Endorsed way), or is it all contained inside like an Eddy? It just seems like the next logical step for Petzl would be to use influences from its industrial devive the RIG, and improve the GriGri so it is almost foolproof! I know someone might disagree. But it is almost foolproof. If it's not then... I don't really know how anyone but a completely brand new belayer could fuck up the rope direction or some other grigri related problem. If you're going to kill someone with a grigri, you most likely will kill them with a grgri 2/atc/etc. in any case. I want one!!
This particular dropping problem tends to happen with slightly experienced climbers than beginners... you have seen them... they have just started climbing 5.12 in the gym and therefore think it is ok to belay however they want... misinterpreted the correct technique or leqarnt it off some other gym-bunny (not all 5.12 climbers of course, I've mainly seen this in the gym).
I was actually thinking more for work purposes - the main problem I have with a Grigri (as an adjustable lanyard) is knocking the protruding Cam on things (usually my elbow) every now and then and taking a small drop! Inconvenient!
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jt512
Oct 27, 2010, 6:05 AM
Post #27 of 111
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wiki wrote: airscape wrote: wiki wrote: Hmmm. how to explain... I mean... When the cam is engaged, does the butt-end of the handle stick out (the bit everyone grabs when they feed rope in the Non-Petzl-Endorsed way), or is it all contained inside like an Eddy? It just seems like the next logical step for Petzl would be to use influences from its industrial devive the RIG, and improve the GriGri so it is almost foolproof! I know someone might disagree. But it is almost foolproof. If it's not then... I don't really know how anyone but a completely brand new belayer could fuck up the rope direction or some other grigri related problem. If you're going to kill someone with a grigri, you most likely will kill them with a grgri 2/atc/etc. in any case. I want one!! This particular dropping problem tends to happen with slightly experienced climbers than beginners... you have seen them... they have just started climbing 5.12 in the gym and therefore think it is ok to belay however they want... misinterpreted the correct technique or leqarnt it off some other gym-bunny (not all 5.12 climbers of course, I've mainly seen this in the gym). I was actually thinking more for work purposes - the main problem I have with a Grigri (as an adjustable lanyard) is knocking the protruding Cam on things (usually my elbow) every now and then and taking a small drop! Inconvenient!
Rc.com at its best: two incoherent posters trying to have a conversation.
Jay
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gosharks
Oct 27, 2010, 6:52 AM
Post #28 of 111
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cjon3s wrote: Let me just clarify that I think weight does have an effect. Not on the friction or any of that, but lowering someone very heavy on a grigri is motr finnicky than with an atc. Thoughts?
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cjon3s
Oct 27, 2010, 6:57 AM
Post #29 of 111
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It was a noob belayer.
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jt512
Oct 27, 2010, 7:03 AM
Post #30 of 111
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gosharks wrote: cjon3s wrote: Let me just clarify that I think weight does have an effect. Not on the friction or any of that, but lowering someone very heavy on a grigri is motr finnicky than with an atc. Thoughts? No difference if you are lowering properly. I weigh 120lbs; everybody I belay weighs more than I do.
I hate to admit it, but I agree with cjon3s. The smoothness of lowering with a grigri is more rope dependent than with an ATC. Grigris are "grabby" with some ropes, and if you're lowering a heavier partner using one of these "grabby" ropes, then every time the grigri "grabs" you get pulled off your feet. ATCs don't seem to be as prone to this problem.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Oct 27, 2010, 7:05 AM)
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airscape
Oct 27, 2010, 7:19 AM
Post #31 of 111
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jt512 wrote: wiki wrote: airscape wrote: wiki wrote: Hmmm. how to explain... I mean... When the cam is engaged, does the butt-end of the handle stick out (the bit everyone grabs when they feed rope in the Non-Petzl-Endorsed way), or is it all contained inside like an Eddy? It just seems like the next logical step for Petzl would be to use influences from its industrial devive the RIG, and improve the GriGri so it is almost foolproof! I know someone might disagree. But it is almost foolproof. If it's not then... I don't really know how anyone but a completely brand new belayer could fuck up the rope direction or some other grigri related problem. If you're going to kill someone with a grigri, you most likely will kill them with a grgri 2/atc/etc. in any case. I want one!! This particular dropping problem tends to happen with slightly experienced climbers than beginners... you have seen them... they have just started climbing 5.12 in the gym and therefore think it is ok to belay however they want... misinterpreted the correct technique or leqarnt it off some other gym-bunny (not all 5.12 climbers of course, I've mainly seen this in the gym). I was actually thinking more for work purposes - the main problem I have with a Grigri (as an adjustable lanyard) is knocking the protruding Cam on things (usually my elbow) every now and then and taking a small drop! Inconvenient! Rc.com at its best: two incoherent posters trying to have a conversation. Jay
It must be crap not to have any friends.
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vegastradguy
Oct 27, 2010, 7:20 AM
Post #32 of 111
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jt512 wrote: gosharks wrote: cjon3s wrote: Let me just clarify that I think weight does have an effect. Not on the friction or any of that, but lowering someone very heavy on a grigri is motr finnicky than with an atc. Thoughts? No difference if you are lowering properly. I weigh 120lbs; everybody I belay weighs more than I do. I hate to admit it, but I agree with cjon3s. The smoothness of lowering with a grigri is more rope dependent than with an ATC. Grigris are "grabby" with some ropes, and if you're lowering a heavier partner using one of these "grabby" ropes, then every time the grigri "grabs" you get pulled off your feet. ATCs don't seem to be as prone to this problem. Jay
yeah, the 3 to 1 for the first few degrees on the new grigri is meant to give you more control to deal with this problem on a wider range of ropes. they also redesigned the actual track the rope sits in (it has a more 'V' shape to it, like an ATC-Guide without the ribs), which should also compensate somewhat for different diameters.
time will tell if it actually does- i wish Petzl had either had a testing area for the device at the show or at least let us play with them somewhat- as it stands, i really cant tell you how its going to perform.
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cjon3s
Oct 27, 2010, 9:03 PM
Post #33 of 111
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Thanks for being much more clear than I was able to be, Jay.
If the Gri Gri 2 feeds better than its predecessor, I'd be happy. I've used both the Cinch and Gri Gri and am kind of stuck on both devices. I love how easily it feeds, but I do not like lowering on it at all. The handle is pretty small compared to the Gri Gri and it's not something I'm super comfortable with. I'd rather just use an ATC.
Maybe this would be a compromise on weight and functionality between the two devices.
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vegastradguy
Oct 27, 2010, 9:43 PM
Post #34 of 111
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cjon3s wrote: Thanks for being much more clear than I was able to be, Jay. If the Gri Gri 2 feeds better than its predecessor, I'd be happy. I've used both the Cinch and Gri Gri and am kind of stuck on both devices. I love how easily it feeds, but I do not like lowering on it at all. The handle is pretty small compared to the Gri Gri and it's not something I'm super comfortable with. I'd rather just use an ATC. Maybe this would be a compromise on weight and functionality between the two devices.
I never found the handle size on the Cinch to be an issue, but to each their own.
fwiw, the GriGri2 will clock in at the same weight as the Cinch and, while its unlikely it will feed as well as the Cinch (nothing really does), it should feed much better than the original GriGri, at least according to Petzl.
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Colinhoglund
Oct 28, 2010, 5:26 AM
Post #35 of 111
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vegastradguy wrote: cjon3s wrote: Thanks for being much more clear than I was able to be, Jay. If the Gri Gri 2 feeds better than its predecessor, I'd be happy. I've used both the Cinch and Gri Gri and am kind of stuck on both devices. I love how easily it feeds, but I do not like lowering on it at all. The handle is pretty small compared to the Gri Gri and it's not something I'm super comfortable with. I'd rather just use an ATC. Maybe this would be a compromise on weight and functionality between the two devices. I never found the handle size on the Cinch to be an issue, but to each their own. fwiw, the GriGri2 will clock in at the same weight as the Cinch and, while its unlikely it will feed as well as the Cinch (nothing really does), it should feed much better than the original GriGri, at least according to Petzl.
From my limited experience it seems to feed WAY better than the original. I don't even like the GriGri and I'm giving the new one a good review! Only time will tell but this seems to be a vast improvement. (which is all Petzl does, they don't catchup, they LEAP ahead. ie. mono-wire draws and Quark Ergo)
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wiki
Oct 28, 2010, 7:00 AM
Post #36 of 111
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airscape wrote: jt512 wrote: wiki wrote: airscape wrote: wiki wrote: Hmmm. how to explain... I mean... When the cam is engaged, does the butt-end of the handle stick out (the bit everyone grabs when they feed rope in the Non-Petzl-Endorsed way), or is it all contained inside like an Eddy? It just seems like the next logical step for Petzl would be to use influences from its industrial devive the RIG, and improve the GriGri so it is almost foolproof! I know someone might disagree. But it is almost foolproof. If it's not then... I don't really know how anyone but a completely brand new belayer could fuck up the rope direction or some other grigri related problem. If you're going to kill someone with a grigri, you most likely will kill them with a grgri 2/atc/etc. in any case. I want one!! This particular dropping problem tends to happen with slightly experienced climbers than beginners... you have seen them... they have just started climbing 5.12 in the gym and therefore think it is ok to belay however they want... misinterpreted the correct technique or leqarnt it off some other gym-bunny (not all 5.12 climbers of course, I've mainly seen this in the gym). I was actually thinking more for work purposes - the main problem I have with a Grigri (as an adjustable lanyard) is knocking the protruding Cam on things (usually my elbow) every now and then and taking a small drop! Inconvenient! Rc.com at its best: two incoherent posters trying to have a conversation. Jay It must be crap not to have any friends.
+ 1
Maybe I should try to get killfiled so we can have a conversation without interruption...
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vegastradguy
Oct 28, 2010, 3:50 PM
Post #37 of 111
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Colinhoglund wrote: From my limited experience it seems to feed WAY better than the original. I don't even like the GriGri and I'm giving the new one a good review! Only time will tell but this seems to be a vast improvement. (which is all Petzl does, they don't catchup, they LEAP ahead. ie. mono-wire draws and Quark Ergo)
you must know someone @ petzl pretty well- most of my petzl buddies hadnt even gotten to play with it yet. (i assume they have or will soon, but probably not for another month yet)
as for as their mono-wire draws- i'm not entirely sure, but judging by the delay of their release of the small one and then indefinite hold on the big one, im thinking those might be a bit harder to manufacture than they thought. time will tell if they're truly worth the effort. i'm also curious to see if the price remains reasonable.
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Colinhoglund
Oct 28, 2010, 5:21 PM
Post #38 of 111
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vegastradguy wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: From my limited experience it seems to feed WAY better than the original. I don't even like the GriGri and I'm giving the new one a good review! Only time will tell but this seems to be a vast improvement. (which is all Petzl does, they don't catchup, they LEAP ahead. ie. mono-wire draws and Quark Ergo) you must know someone @ petzl pretty well- most of my petzl buddies hadnt even gotten to play with it yet. (i assume they have or will soon, but probably not for another month yet) as for as their mono-wire draws- i'm not entirely sure, but judging by the delay of their release of the small one and then indefinite hold on the big one, im thinking those might be a bit harder to manufacture than they thought. time will tell if they're truly worth the effort. i'm also curious to see if the price remains reasonable.
I'm somewhat 'acquainted' with a local rep/field tester since I've gone on a few Ice courses with him and work in local retail. Since the Canadian Rockies seems to be a proving ground there are several of these field testers here, and their all more than happy to share their latest toy with you if your lucky enough to run into them.
Wether it flops or not, I still think the ANGE is a particularly large leap ahead in technology. My slightly educated guess is that the larger was deemed redundant since the small one has the gate size of a Spirit. Looks bloody complex as well, i'm glad they're not releasing it till it is perfect.
(and just to stop sounding like a Petzl fan boy, I'm actually a huge Black Diamond whore )
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jt512
Oct 28, 2010, 5:28 PM
Post #39 of 111
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wiki wrote: airscape wrote: jt512 wrote: wiki wrote: airscape wrote: wiki wrote: Hmmm. how to explain... I mean... When the cam is engaged, does the butt-end of the handle stick out (the bit everyone grabs when they feed rope in the Non-Petzl-Endorsed way), or is it all contained inside like an Eddy? It just seems like the next logical step for Petzl would be to use influences from its industrial devive the RIG, and improve the GriGri so it is almost foolproof! I know someone might disagree. But it is almost foolproof. If it's not then... I don't really know how anyone but a completely brand new belayer could fuck up the rope direction or some other grigri related problem. If you're going to kill someone with a grigri, you most likely will kill them with a grgri 2/atc/etc. in any case. I want one!! This particular dropping problem tends to happen with slightly experienced climbers than beginners... you have seen them... they have just started climbing 5.12 in the gym and therefore think it is ok to belay however they want... misinterpreted the correct technique or leqarnt it off some other gym-bunny (not all 5.12 climbers of course, I've mainly seen this in the gym). I was actually thinking more for work purposes - the main problem I have with a Grigri (as an adjustable lanyard) is knocking the protruding Cam on things (usually my elbow) every now and then and taking a small drop! Inconvenient! Rc.com at its best: two incoherent posters trying to have a conversation. Jay It must be crap not to have any friends. + 1 Maybe I should try to get killfiled so we can have a conversation without interruption...
You two mental giants ought to think about what it takes to get offended by a comment like that of mine.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Oct 28, 2010, 5:31 PM)
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vegastradguy
Oct 28, 2010, 6:48 PM
Post #40 of 111
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Colinhoglund wrote: Wether it flops or not, I still think the ANGE is a particularly large leap ahead in technology. My slightly educated guess is that the larger was deemed redundant since the small one has the gate size of a Spirit. Looks bloody complex as well, i'm glad they're not releasing it till it is perfect. (and just to stop sounding like a Petzl fan boy, I'm actually a huge Black Diamond whore )
meh, its not really that much of a leap- there are other manufacturers that have been able to put things into the body of the carabiner, they just havent done it with the spring of a gate yet. this is not to belittle what petzl has done- i think its slick, to be sure, but its nothing that special in terms of tech.
at any rate, time will tell. the guys who think this shit up are smarter than me anyway, and im sure petzl has done/is doing its homework on just about anything it decides its going to do (except ropes, of course, but thats another story (and another manufacturer)).
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airscape
Oct 28, 2010, 7:12 PM
Post #41 of 111
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jt512 wrote: wiki wrote: airscape wrote: jt512 wrote: wiki wrote: airscape wrote: wiki wrote: Hmmm. how to explain... I mean... When the cam is engaged, does the butt-end of the handle stick out (the bit everyone grabs when they feed rope in the Non-Petzl-Endorsed way), or is it all contained inside like an Eddy? It just seems like the next logical step for Petzl would be to use influences from its industrial devive the RIG, and improve the GriGri so it is almost foolproof! I know someone might disagree. But it is almost foolproof. If it's not then... I don't really know how anyone but a completely brand new belayer could fuck up the rope direction or some other grigri related problem. If you're going to kill someone with a grigri, you most likely will kill them with a grgri 2/atc/etc. in any case. I want one!! This particular dropping problem tends to happen with slightly experienced climbers than beginners... you have seen them... they have just started climbing 5.12 in the gym and therefore think it is ok to belay however they want... misinterpreted the correct technique or leqarnt it off some other gym-bunny (not all 5.12 climbers of course, I've mainly seen this in the gym). I was actually thinking more for work purposes - the main problem I have with a Grigri (as an adjustable lanyard) is knocking the protruding Cam on things (usually my elbow) every now and then and taking a small drop! Inconvenient! Rc.com at its best: two incoherent posters trying to have a conversation. Jay It must be crap not to have any friends. + 1 Maybe I should try to get killfiled so we can have a conversation without interruption... You two mental giants ought to think about what it takes to get offended by a comment like that of mine. Jay
I don't get offended by anything.
I wouldn't really say Wiki was a mental giant, but thanks for the complement in any case.
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kiwiprincess
Oct 28, 2010, 7:25 PM
Post #42 of 111
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I've been using a Gri gri2 With my 9.4 rope I can just feed it like with an atc type Belay device and never need to hold the cam down. I love it as I usually dont use a grigri as it is too stiff and difficult to belay for me yet I have been using the gri gri 2 regularlly .
On an old fluffy 10.2 I do need to use the cam to feed but with a little practice am getting used to the thumb technique, and it works quite well (i found it hard to change habits at first)
Lowering it Is slower to release at the beginning of the movement and helps with control.
I am small and love how light and small it is.
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karcand
Oct 28, 2010, 8:07 PM
Post #43 of 111
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I wonder if this is just a patent ploy, is the patent for the GriGri coming up and the only way to renew it is to slightly alter the invention?
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airscape
Oct 28, 2010, 8:34 PM
Post #44 of 111
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karcand wrote: I wonder if this is just a patent ploy, is the patent for the GriGri coming up and the only way to renew it is to slightly alter the invention?
The new one can take thinner ropes and is much lighter.
and is apparently easier to feed.
It is a betterment of an already good product. That's what we want.
If they changed it just for the sake of marketing/patent right or whatever, why is it a bad thing?
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airscape
Oct 28, 2010, 8:35 PM
Post #45 of 111
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This might be the Windows Vista of belay devices!!
I still want one.
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seatbeltpants
Oct 28, 2010, 9:21 PM
Post #46 of 111
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i used one this past weekend and thought it was pretty good - lowering seems to be much better than the original model, this with the gg2 on a 9.4 rope. can't say i've ever used a grigri outside of the gym before so my basis for comparison is rubbish but it was better than i expected, and the other guys i was with who have used a grigri a fair bit agreed.
so i thought it worked all right, was small and reasonably light. the downside was that i found it a lot more difficult to belay a leader with than an atc - feeding was a pain in the arse, though i'm sure i'd sort that out with more use. i'd happily use one for belaying fatties on steep routes, but it's probably not something i'd buy.
steve
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kiwiprincess
Oct 28, 2010, 9:53 PM
Post #47 of 111
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did you try it just feeding the rope through like you would with an ATC? I found it super easy.
Obviously as soon as you need to depress the cam it is more complicated to feed out, but I DIDN'T NEED TO ON MY 9.4 (IT IS DRY TREATED AND ON IT'S FIRST SEASON THOUGH SO MAY BE SMOOTHER.)
Sorry for yelling pushed the caps lock by accident!
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seatbeltpants
Oct 28, 2010, 10:10 PM
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ALL GOOD!
yeah, it fed through fine as long as i kept it slow - if the guy climbing was out of sight though and he yanked up a load of slack to clip i didn't see it coming so it locked and left me fumbling to sort it out. totally my own incompetence / lack of experience, but it was a problem for me.
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wiki
Oct 29, 2010, 12:44 AM
Post #49 of 111
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jt512 wrote: wiki wrote: airscape wrote: jt512 wrote: wiki wrote: airscape wrote: wiki wrote: Hmmm. how to explain... I mean... When the cam is engaged, does the butt-end of the handle stick out (the bit everyone grabs when they feed rope in the Non-Petzl-Endorsed way), or is it all contained inside like an Eddy? It just seems like the next logical step for Petzl would be to use influences from its industrial devive the RIG, and improve the GriGri so it is almost foolproof! I know someone might disagree. But it is almost foolproof. If it's not then... I don't really know how anyone but a completely brand new belayer could fuck up the rope direction or some other grigri related problem. If you're going to kill someone with a grigri, you most likely will kill them with a grgri 2/atc/etc. in any case. I want one!! This particular dropping problem tends to happen with slightly experienced climbers than beginners... you have seen them... they have just started climbing 5.12 in the gym and therefore think it is ok to belay however they want... misinterpreted the correct technique or leqarnt it off some other gym-bunny (not all 5.12 climbers of course, I've mainly seen this in the gym). I was actually thinking more for work purposes - the main problem I have with a Grigri (as an adjustable lanyard) is knocking the protruding Cam on things (usually my elbow) every now and then and taking a small drop! Inconvenient! Rc.com at its best: two incoherent posters trying to have a conversation. Jay It must be crap not to have any friends. + 1 Maybe I should try to get killfiled so we can have a conversation without interruption... You two mental giants ought to think about what it takes to get offended by a comment like that of mine. Jay
I'm not offended at all. Just drunk forum posting as usual 
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Colinhoglund
Oct 29, 2010, 3:47 AM
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In reply to: meh, its not really that much of a leap- there are other manufacturers that have been able to put things into the body of the carabiner, they just havent done it with the spring of a gate yet. this is not to belittle what petzl has done- i think its slick, to be sure, but its nothing that special in terms of tech. at any rate, time will tell. the guys who think this shit up are smarter than me anyway, and im sure petzl has done/is doing its homework on just about anything it decides its going to do (except ropes, of course, but thats another story (and another manufacturer)).
I see your point. I just think it's a cool idea, a light biener that still clips well. Way better idea then that FS mini, clipping those would turn 5.10 into 5.HARD!
Ps. Thanks for all the Outdoor show reviews, much appreciated.
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