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bustloose
Nov 8, 2010, 7:24 PM
Post #26 of 48
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spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: aerili wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Well, the physiologists are disagreeing on that theory now. Would you have a link for that ? There's a link in the second reply in this thread for what you seek. Looks like Coke is sponsoring them. That's what I thought at first glance, but it seems more like Coke is just referencing the study. The study itself seemed to be independent of any suspect funding. Go look up what Dr. Colgan has to say about caffeine and performance. in essence he notes that all tests on caffeine and athletics are done with couch potatoes, not true athletes which greatly skews the findings. He suggests that the diuretic effect of caffeine in normal doses will have no effect on a properly hydrated athlete. He also notes that you will receive no performance benefits from normal doses of caffeine, especially if you intake caffeine regularly.
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kachoong
Nov 8, 2010, 7:26 PM
Post #27 of 48
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bustloose wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: aerili wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Well, the physiologists are disagreeing on that theory now. Would you have a link for that ? There's a link in the second reply in this thread for what you seek. Looks like Coke is sponsoring them. That's what I thought at first glance, but it seems more like Coke is just referencing the study. The study itself seemed to be independent of any suspect funding. Go look up what Dr. Colgan has to say about caffeine and performance. in essence he notes that all tests on caffeine and athletics are done with couch potatoes, not true athletes which greatly skews the findings. He suggests that the diuretic effect of caffeine in normal doses will have no effect on a properly hydrated athlete. He also notes that you will receive no performance benefits from normal doses of caffeine, especially if you intake caffeine regularly. You'd be surprised how good for you couch potatoes are. With the skin is supposedly better.
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bustloose
Nov 8, 2010, 8:31 PM
Post #28 of 48
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kachoong wrote: bustloose wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: aerili wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Well, the physiologists are disagreeing on that theory now. Would you have a link for that ? There's a link in the second reply in this thread for what you seek. Looks like Coke is sponsoring them. That's what I thought at first glance, but it seems more like Coke is just referencing the study. The study itself seemed to be independent of any suspect funding. Go look up what Dr. Colgan has to say about caffeine and performance. in essence he notes that all tests on caffeine and athletics are done with couch potatoes, not true athletes which greatly skews the findings. He suggests that the diuretic effect of caffeine in normal doses will have no effect on a properly hydrated athlete. He also notes that you will receive no performance benefits from normal doses of caffeine, especially if you intake caffeine regularly. You'd be surprised how good for you couch potatoes are. With the skin is supposedly better. provided you bake them instead of deep fry of course!
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jt512
Nov 8, 2010, 8:37 PM
Post #29 of 48
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K-Tanz wrote: High fructose corn syrup is burned especially fast . . . No it isn't.
In reply to: . . . and will spike things like insulin faster than table or "real" sugar. No it won't. If by "real" sugar you mean sucrose, then I would expect the insulin response of high fructose corn syrup and "real" sugar to be similar. Jay
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jt512
Nov 8, 2010, 8:51 PM
Post #30 of 48
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spikeddem wrote: theextremist04 wrote: From my endurance mountain biking background, eating food that tastes good is really important. But try to find balance- PB&J is good, Poptarts, Snickers, etc. instead of just pure sugar. How is a Snickers balanced? What's keeping it off the "pure sugar" side? Well, it's 44% fat. Jay
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bearbreeder
Nov 8, 2010, 8:59 PM
Post #31 of 48
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just eat .... dont worry about it too much as long as you get enough carbs and protein its not like yr going out for a multiweek expedition anyways when yr burning 4000-5000 calories a day or more ,,,, the bigger danger is not eating or hydrating enough
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jt512
Nov 8, 2010, 9:08 PM
Post #32 of 48
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bustloose wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: aerili wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Well, the physiologists are disagreeing on that theory now. Would you have a link for that ? There's a link in the second reply in this thread for what you seek. Looks like Coke is sponsoring them. That's what I thought at first glance, but it seems more like Coke is just referencing the study. The study itself seemed to be independent of any suspect funding. Go look up what Dr. Colgan has to say about caffeine and performance. in essence he notes that all tests on caffeine and athletics are done with couch potatoes, not true athletes which greatly skews the findings. I don't know who Dr. Colgan is, but if he said that then he doesn't know what he is talking about. There have been dozens of studies of the effect of caffeine on well-trained to elite athletes. That said, where do most climbers fall on the couch-potato–true-athlete continuum, anyway. Jay
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happiegrrrl
Nov 9, 2010, 8:09 PM
Post #33 of 48
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To the OP - Tucjer Tech, who puts up routes in JTree, in a swami, has never pulled any snack from his pack other than cans of beer, from what I have witnessed. Whiskey Mike, a local Gunkie, seems to subsist on ...whiskey...and pretzels and Twizzler licorice, and he leads 10's. If you're into the concept of maximizing performance and nutrition is one of the tools, that's fine(and then yeah...maybe soda and chips isn't the best plan). But it seems to me plenty of climbers have gone pretty far with not such a focus on food....
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bustloose
Nov 9, 2010, 8:31 PM
Post #34 of 48
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jt512 wrote: bustloose wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: aerili wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Well, the physiologists are disagreeing on that theory now. Would you have a link for that ? There's a link in the second reply in this thread for what you seek. Looks like Coke is sponsoring them. That's what I thought at first glance, but it seems more like Coke is just referencing the study. The study itself seemed to be independent of any suspect funding. Go look up what Dr. Colgan has to say about caffeine and performance. in essence he notes that all tests on caffeine and athletics are done with couch potatoes, not true athletes which greatly skews the findings. I don't know who Dr. Colgan is, but if he said that then he doesn't know what he is talking about. There have been dozens of studies of the effect of caffeine on well-trained to elite athletes. That said, where do most climbers fall on the couch-potato–true-athlete continuum, anyway. Jay I promise you Jay, that he knows what he is talking about. But i refuse to argue it with you, for obvious reasons
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sbaclimber
Nov 9, 2010, 9:01 PM
Post #35 of 48
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Registered: Jan 22, 2004
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bustloose wrote: jt512 wrote: bustloose wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: aerili wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Well, the physiologists are disagreeing on that theory now. Would you have a link for that ? There's a link in the second reply in this thread for what you seek. Looks like Coke is sponsoring them. That's what I thought at first glance, but it seems more like Coke is just referencing the study. The study itself seemed to be independent of any suspect funding. Go look up what Dr. Colgan has to say about caffeine and performance. in essence he notes that all tests on caffeine and athletics are done with couch potatoes, not true athletes which greatly skews the findings. I don't know who Dr. Colgan is, but if he said that then he doesn't know what he is talking about. There have been dozens of studies of the effect of caffeine on well-trained to elite athletes. That said, where do most climbers fall on the couch-potato–true-athlete continuum, anyway. Jay I promise you Jay, that he knows what he is talking about. But i refuse to argue it with you, for obvious reasons I don't know (or care) what Jay thinks about this guy or your opinion of him, but one look at his website makes me 100% skeptical of anything he might have to say convinces me that is only trying to sell me something.... Edit for clarification I suspect there is *plonk* about to be heard...
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Nov 9, 2010, 9:06 PM)
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spikeddem
Nov 9, 2010, 9:06 PM
Post #36 of 48
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sbaclimber wrote: bustloose wrote: jt512 wrote: bustloose wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: aerili wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Well, the physiologists are disagreeing on that theory now. Would you have a link for that ? There's a link in the second reply in this thread for what you seek. Looks like Coke is sponsoring them. That's what I thought at first glance, but it seems more like Coke is just referencing the study. The study itself seemed to be independent of any suspect funding. Go look up what Dr. Colgan has to say about caffeine and performance. in essence he notes that all tests on caffeine and athletics are done with couch potatoes, not true athletes which greatly skews the findings. I don't know who Dr. Colgan is, but if he said that then he doesn't know what he is talking about. There have been dozens of studies of the effect of caffeine on well-trained to elite athletes. That said, where do most climbers fall on the couch-potato–true-athlete continuum, anyway. Jay I promise you Jay, that he knows what he is talking about. But i refuse to argue it with you, for obvious reasons I don't know (or care) what Jay thinks about this guy or your opinion of him, but one look at his website makes me 100% skeptical of anything he might have to say convinces me that is only trying to sell me something.... Edit for clarification I suspect there is *plonk* about to be heard... And a +1
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silascl
Nov 9, 2010, 9:08 PM
Post #37 of 48
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bustloose wrote: jt512 wrote: bustloose wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: aerili wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Well, the physiologists are disagreeing on that theory now. Would you have a link for that ? There's a link in the second reply in this thread for what you seek. Looks like Coke is sponsoring them. That's what I thought at first glance, but it seems more like Coke is just referencing the study. The study itself seemed to be independent of any suspect funding. Go look up what Dr. Colgan has to say about caffeine and performance. in essence he notes that all tests on caffeine and athletics are done with couch potatoes, not true athletes which greatly skews the findings. I don't know who Dr. Colgan is, but if he said that then he doesn't know what he is talking about. There have been dozens of studies of the effect of caffeine on well-trained to elite athletes. That said, where do most climbers fall on the couch-potato–true-athlete continuum, anyway. Jay I promise you Jay, that he knows what he is talking about. But i refuse to argue it with you, for obvious reasons Not to be pedantic, but the claim you've made, that there are no studies on the effects of caffeine in true athletes is dead wrong. I reference such a study halfway down the first page of this thread.
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hafilax
Nov 9, 2010, 9:18 PM
Post #38 of 48
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IIRC, caffeine aids in converting fat into energy.
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jt512
Nov 9, 2010, 10:58 PM
Post #39 of 48
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bustloose wrote: jt512 wrote: bustloose wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: aerili wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Well, the physiologists are disagreeing on that theory now. Would you have a link for that ? There's a link in the second reply in this thread for what you seek. Looks like Coke is sponsoring them. That's what I thought at first glance, but it seems more like Coke is just referencing the study. The study itself seemed to be independent of any suspect funding. Go look up what Dr. Colgan has to say about caffeine and performance. in essence he notes that all tests on caffeine and athletics are done with couch potatoes, not true athletes which greatly skews the findings. I don't know who Dr. Colgan is, but if he said that then he doesn't know what he is talking about. There have been dozens of studies of the effect of caffeine on well-trained to elite athletes. That said, where do most climbers fall on the couch-potato–true-athlete continuum, anyway. Jay I promise you Jay, that he knows what he is talking about. But i refuse to argue it with you, for obvious reasons Nice innuendo: "for obvious reasons." The only obvious reason you don't want to "argue" is that you're been caught dead wrong and have no argument to make. You can make all the promises you want, but you've already demonstrated one of two things: Dr. Whats-his-name doesn't know what he's talking about (or he just lies), or you've misrepresented what he said. Like I said, there are dozens of studies of the effect of caffeine intake on athletic performance in highly trained athletes; and anybody who says otherwise is either grossly misinformed or lying. Jay
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bustloose
Nov 10, 2010, 8:55 PM
Post #40 of 48
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silascl wrote: bustloose wrote: jt512 wrote: bustloose wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: aerili wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Well, the physiologists are disagreeing on that theory now. Would you have a link for that ? There's a link in the second reply in this thread for what you seek. Looks like Coke is sponsoring them. That's what I thought at first glance, but it seems more like Coke is just referencing the study. The study itself seemed to be independent of any suspect funding. Go look up what Dr. Colgan has to say about caffeine and performance. in essence he notes that all tests on caffeine and athletics are done with couch potatoes, not true athletes which greatly skews the findings. I don't know who Dr. Colgan is, but if he said that then he doesn't know what he is talking about. There have been dozens of studies of the effect of caffeine on well-trained to elite athletes. That said, where do most climbers fall on the couch-potato–true-athlete continuum, anyway. Jay I promise you Jay, that he knows what he is talking about. But i refuse to argue it with you, for obvious reasons Not to be pedantic, but the claim you've made, that there are no studies on the effects of caffeine in true athletes is dead wrong. I reference such a study halfway down the first page of this thread. yes, i should have qualified that this comes from older literature. you have pointed out that there has been more recent research done on the subject, i have not ever looked for it. the point is that points he makes are still valid, and i would imagine that they are in line with recent studies on the effects of caffeine and performance. and jay, you can just f*ck off, for obvious reasons.
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sbaclimber
Nov 10, 2010, 9:00 PM
Post #41 of 48
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bustloose wrote: silascl wrote: bustloose wrote: jt512 wrote: bustloose wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: aerili wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Well, the physiologists are disagreeing on that theory now. Would you have a link for that ? There's a link in the second reply in this thread for what you seek. Looks like Coke is sponsoring them. That's what I thought at first glance, but it seems more like Coke is just referencing the study. The study itself seemed to be independent of any suspect funding. Go look up what Dr. Colgan has to say about caffeine and performance. in essence he notes that all tests on caffeine and athletics are done with couch potatoes, not true athletes which greatly skews the findings. I don't know who Dr. Colgan is, but if he said that then he doesn't know what he is talking about. There have been dozens of studies of the effect of caffeine on well-trained to elite athletes. That said, where do most climbers fall on the couch-potato–true-athlete continuum, anyway. Jay I promise you Jay, that he knows what he is talking about. But i refuse to argue it with you, for obvious reasons Not to be pedantic, but the claim you've made, that there are no studies on the effects of caffeine in true athletes is dead wrong. I reference such a study halfway down the first page of this thread. yes, i should have qualified that this comes from older literature. you have pointed out that there has been more recent research done on the subject, i have not ever looked for it. the point is that points he makes are still valid, and i would imagine that they are in line with recent studies on the effects of caffeine and performance. and jay, you can just f*ck off, for obvious reasons. ...and yet another example of a spectacularly flawed understanding of how science works.... Anyone could still claim that the sun revolves around the earth is still a "valid" point if they choose to ignore the "more recent" research.... Edit: what's the max number of sub-quotes?
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Nov 10, 2010, 9:01 PM)
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jt512
Nov 10, 2010, 9:02 PM
Post #42 of 48
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bustloose wrote: silascl wrote: bustloose wrote: jt512 wrote: bustloose wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: spikeddem wrote: tradrenn wrote: aerili wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Well, the physiologists are disagreeing on that theory now. Would you have a link for that ? There's a link in the second reply in this thread for what you seek. Looks like Coke is sponsoring them. That's what I thought at first glance, but it seems more like Coke is just referencing the study. The study itself seemed to be independent of any suspect funding. Go look up what Dr. Colgan has to say about caffeine and performance. in essence he notes that all tests on caffeine and athletics are done with couch potatoes, not true athletes which greatly skews the findings. I don't know who Dr. Colgan is, but if he said that then he doesn't know what he is talking about. There have been dozens of studies of the effect of caffeine on well-trained to elite athletes. That said, where do most climbers fall on the couch-potato–true-athlete continuum, anyway. Jay I promise you Jay, that he knows what he is talking about. But i refuse to argue it with you, for obvious reasons Not to be pedantic, but the claim you've made, that there are no studies on the effects of caffeine in true athletes is dead wrong. I reference such a study halfway down the first page of this thread. yes, i should have qualified that this comes from older literature. you have pointed out that there has been more recent research done on the subject, i have not ever looked for it. the point is that points he makes are still valid, and i would imagine that they are in line with recent studies on the effects of caffeine and performance. and jay, you can just f*ck off, for obvious reasons. That was completely uncalled for. Jay
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hafilax
Nov 10, 2010, 9:06 PM
Post #43 of 48
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I think that good food will help you recover better especially the next day but you might not feel much difference the day of. If you struggle to eat real food while climbing then empty calories are probably better than none. Some sugar post climb should help a bit with glycogen replenishment. real food > just calories > nothing
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sspssp
Nov 11, 2010, 9:35 PM
Post #44 of 48
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spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Your coke isn't hydrating you. So when I spent three weeks traveling abroad and drank nothing but coke out of a can, I actually died of dehydration and I have been in hell ever since (chained to a keyboard/internet).
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sspssp
Nov 11, 2010, 9:39 PM
Post #45 of 48
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seatbeltpants wrote: when i am climbing though i essentially just try to consume water, carbs, and a bit of other stuff during the day. i find that i eat more if i want to eat what i bring, so instead of pure water fresh sprung from a virgin mountain, i drink coke. instead of an organic rye sandwich with wild ham and free range mustard, i eat a packet of corn chips and a chunk of salami. is this actually so bad? I find it hard to eat enough calories, especially in really warm or cold conditions. I agree totally that bringing stuff, that you might not want as part of your permanent diet, that you enjoy more can help. I can understand those who claim that downing a liter of soda and a chocolate bar will lead to a sugar crash. But for me, low sugar is a problem. I find sipping sugary drinks over the course of the day helps me stay active/energetic. Although I usually go sports drink like gatorade. I don't know about you, but I drink so much coffee that the caffeine in a coke is irrelevant.
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bill413
Nov 12, 2010, 1:27 AM
Post #46 of 48
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sspssp wrote: spikeddem wrote: I'm only going to address the water vs coke issue. Caffeine is a diuretic. Your coke isn't hydrating you. So when I spent three weeks traveling abroad and drank nothing but coke out of a can, I actually died of dehydration and I have been in hell ever since (chained to a keyboard/internet). Well, there's your proof right there.
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onceahardman
Nov 12, 2010, 1:59 AM
Post #47 of 48
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In reply to: and jay, you can just f*ck off, for obvious reasons. I agree, this was completely uncalled for. If you want to argue nutrition or exercise physiology as it relates to caffeine, have at it. Defend the science. When you instead argue ad hominem,or "against the man", you make a logical error. This weakens the rest of your point. Likewise, when you "appeal to authority" without being familiar with the literature. I'm not saying you have to "like" Jay, I'm saying you have poorly defended your opinion.
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theguy
Nov 12, 2010, 2:47 AM
Post #48 of 48
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jt512 wrote: That was completely uncalled for. Jay Since the last post bemoaning the current state of the site, the tone seems to have improved, and I think I have to give much of the credit to Jay, since he had been responsible for much of the tone prior to that post. So I believe Jay's right: let's encourage current good behaviour, rather than tar people for past bad behaviour, particularly when the tarring itself exemplifies that sort of behaviour.
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