interesting. when i sling a horn i take note of several things 1. the solidness of the horn, no flakes, 3-4" in dia. slip angles and angle of applied force. also i was under the impression that clove hitching with a sling weakens it. i use a sling in size accordance to the size of the horn. and while i was "draping" the sling, it is doubled up, and usually small enough not to slip over the top or pull off... still crazy?

Excellent discussion, and good consistency with an earlier thread that I started. http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

I would unquestionably take a Sandrock chickenhead over a thin bridge any time. The other thread has a few recommendations of a Tri-cam in a horizontal. Any reason why not?

id take a tri cam in that horinzontal if the rock is solid anyday ....

horn looks ok from the photo ... but looks like it might be a biatch to thread, more so than a tricam anways

the nut looks sketchy to me

... also i was under the impression that clove hitching with a sling weakens it.

Bearbrainer, you're like the the George W. Bush of rockclimbing.com: your every opinion is exactly backwards, and your command of the English language is infantile.

jay

still madder as a hatter mista jay? .... boooooooo ;)

still madder as a hatter mista jay? .... boooooooo ;)

You found a nut that you couldn't see "sketchy?" From what I can see in that photo that nut could be anywhere from total bomber to total Fantasy Island. Jay wins. (oh, yeah - "still madder as" seems to be "still mad as" in standard English.)

Actually, if you look in that photo, you can see that the nut is simply threaded through a hole in the rock - the entire head of the nut is visible. The strength of the placement is derived from the thin column of rock beneath the head of the nut, that looks to be no more than 2cm thick. Not knowing what kind of rock it is makes it hard to judge, but I'd definitely be preferring the slung column than the nut in that photo.

Here's a way to keep the strength up, sorta:

[image]http://www.mountainproject.com/images/6/4/106120604_medium_a783e0.jpg[/image]

Girth hitch through a biner. Bomber...ha ha.

So bizarre, this idea of preferring a nut to good natural pro.

Jay

What's more troubling is the fact that the climber girth hitched around 2 separate ice columns. If that girth is loaded, it will dramatically multiply the force, crushing the thin ice columns together. To put it in other terms, the angle between the slung pillars is approaching 180 degrees. You would never do that with 2 cams - why do it with equally suspect pillars?

This anchor would have been much better if that sling was rigged like an inverted "W" and threaded around each pillar individually to wind up with something looking similar to how a cordellete is rigged. It's hard to verbalize, but I could MS Paint something if necessary.

Oh, and Craig Luebben's research back when he wrote How To Ice Climb showed that incorporating your tools into an anchor is a pretty poor idea when other options exist.

I don't think even a PERFECTLY placed axe can be reliably expected to hold a lead fall. Leashes aren't even rated to my knowldege, and that's what it looks like the climber clipped into here. On Cobras, the leashes are bolted with a tiny 4mm thread screw, IIRC. A sharp fall could easily pull those tools from the ice and impale them into the climber's thigh/abdomen, break the holding screws, or both.

It would have to be some utterly horrifying conditions before I incorporated my tools into a belay. I carry 10cm stubbies and pins for conditions like that.

F that nut. It's a ridiculous placement no matter what the rock. The thread might be fine. There's no real way to tell without being there.