when you need to get off belay to help the messed up leader, this is one way (out of so many other ways) you could escape belay and assist the down leader.

1- make sure you always have few biner and a prusik hanging on your harness
2-set up an anchor near or belay belay
3- lock off belay and take min 5 feet of rope below belay device and put a fig 8
4-put another fig 8 , two feet below the first fig 8
5- take the remaining rope below the last fig 8 and attach the rope to a solid anchor.

6- put a prusik above belay
7- take the 5 feet of slack below the belay and run it at least once between two fig 8(biner) to get 2:1 or twice to get 4:1 mechanical advantage.
8- let some slack from the belay device till load is transferred between the two biner
9-once load is on the two fig 8, take the belay off and do your thing(help, cry,rescue,whatever).

to put yourself back on belay

1- attach belay to your harness and take off all slack
2- tension on MA 2:1 or 4:1 and till prusik is near belay then lock off belay.
3-undo the tension on 2:1/4:1 MA till load is back on belay
4-once load is back on belay, take fig 8 out /undo anchor and then lower

wabitt nomax is on
please start the flame

3- lock off belay and take min 5 feet of rope below belay device and put a fig 8

First thing that comes to mind is how do you tie a F8-on-a-bight with one hand. Shouldn't you first get hands-free with the classic mule-overhand method?

First thing that comes to mind is how do you tie a F8-on-a-bight with one hand. Shouldn't you first get hands-free with the classic mule-overhand method?

when you need to get off belay to help the messed up leader, this is one way (out of so many other ways) you could escape belay and assist the down leader.

1- make sure you always have few biner and a prusik hanging on your harness
2-set up an anchor near or belay belay
3- lock off belay and take min 5 feet of rope below belay device and put a fig 8
4-put another fig 8 , two feet below the first fig 8
5- take the remaining rope below the last fig 8 and attach the rope to a solid anchor.

6- put a prusik above belay
7- take the 5 feet of slack below the belay and run it at least once between two fig 8(biner) to get 2:1 or twice to get 4:1 mechanical advantage.
8- let some slack from the belay device till load is transferred between the two biner
9-once load is on the two fig 8, take the belay off and do your thing(help, cry,rescue,whatever).

to put yourself back on belay

1- attach belay to your harness and take off all slack
2- tension on MA 2:1 or 4:1 and till prusik is near belay then lock off belay.
3-undo the tension on 2:1/4:1 MA till load is back on belay
4-once load is back on belay, take fig 8 out /undo anchor and then lower

wabitt nomax is on
please start the flame

9-once load is on the two fig 8, take the belay off and do your thing(help, cry,rescue,whatever).

Interesting idea, but overcomplicated.
I can see the benefit of installing an advantage and using that to remove the belay if you forsee the need to raise, but this advantage doesn't function quite the way it should, i.e. it isn't a true ratchet. You'd have to do some more to it to get there. That and its range is extremely limited. Also, if you are treating biners like pulleys why not slap another 2:1 in the mix for the piece that held the leader's fall?
After a certain point, carabiners tend to make the advantage very "theoretical" and can even drag it back the other way.

Mike's method (and the one I've seen most often) I think is better. I can see using the tail of the line only if you don't have a loop long enough to make a prussik with a munter/mule, or you need that longer loop to ascend the rope after escaping the belay.
Also, it's much easier with this method to achieve az drag with a longer working range as well as a 4:1 by adding a simple counterweight 2:1 from the anchor to the rope below the prussik.

However, I think there's a good idea in there somewhere, for something.

Yes he should. Against my better judgment, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that it was just an oversight to not mention it. I actually do like the additions of the 4:1, which will take force off of the prussik.

I hate to state the obvious, but this is not necessary if the climber can be lowered back to the belay.

In case of an emergency, though, it's always a good idea to go hands-free, just to think. Taking a few minutes to decide on your best course of action will save time in the long run.

Josh

First thing that comes to mind is how do you tie a F8-on-a-bight with one hand. Shouldn't you first get hands-free with the classic mule-overhand method?

if leader is decked on the ledge 100 feet up you can't lower him

Really?! I had no idea! That's why I said IF the climber CAN be lowered, because a lot of people are so gung-ho about self-rescue, that they will undoubtedly do something unnecessarily.Josh

Really?! I had no idea! That's why I said IF the climber CAN be lowered, because a lot of people are so gung-ho about self-rescue, that they will undoubtedly do something unnecessarily.

Btw, if a climber is decked on a ledge, you wouldn't need to do any of that because they are not weighting the rope.

Josh

Majid, I can't think of a single problem involved in self-rescue that this set-up solves. Everything I can think of is accomplished more easily with one of the standard procedures.

I can't see any use for the improvised pulley, at least none that can't be done more easily with one of the standard system.

The theoretical mechanical advantage of the depicted improvised pulley is 2:1. But after carabiner friction, it will offer essentially no mechanical advantage. Because of the combination of friction and theoretical mechanical advantage, such things are very good for letting out slack, but they are essentially pointless for trying to tension a system. And putting another wrap in to get a theoretical 4:1 will give you a stuck mess with so much friction you won't be able to pull anything up at all with it.

I'm saying if there is a real use for that pulley that involves pulling in slack, it isn't going to work in the real world. This seems to leave us with a system that isn't needed and that won't work anyway so I'd say back to the drawing boards.

But before we get Version 1.1, could you please say explicitly what problems the standard methods have that are eliminated or at least ameliorated in your new system?

not really

the leader must be secure so you still need to lock off belay and start plan B by either climbing the rope or whatever so the treatment is the same

Also, what if leader was resting on fifi and got hit by rock. how are you going to lower him ?

i got you

In case of an emergency, though, it's always a good idea to go hands-free, just to think. Taking a few minutes to decide on your best course of action will save time in the long run.

If you can do this then you can do that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VXfrIAgpG0

But before we get Version 1.1, could you please say explicitly what problems the standard methods have that are eliminated or at least ameliorated in your new system?

I used my shoe laces as prusik and the same climbing rope so things look ugly. if you have separate cord and prusik then it would be much cleaner.