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enigma


Dec 13, 2010, 2:12 AM
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The Climbing Game
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I climb with a group of locals and recently a new 17 old girl broke up with her climbing bf so this guy maybe 50 decided to take her under his wing. First thing he did while camping was share her two room tent w her. He's a excellent climber 5.11-5.12 and in a Ivy League PHD program. So he's teaching her to lead harder routes. She thinks he want to be a father figure. Slowly he's trying to isolate her and take her on these private trips. She seems so naive with his intentions. Could it be altrustic or is it a climbing game?


nessie


Dec 13, 2010, 2:18 AM
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Hmmm, sharing a tent with a girl less than half your age? i don't know but it sounds pretty creepy to me...Climbing wise if the guy wants to teach her the ropes great but there is a line between teaching and all the rest...


sbaclimber


Dec 13, 2010, 2:27 AM
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nessie wrote:
sharing a tent with a girl less than half your age....sounds pretty creepy to me...
+1


enigma


Dec 13, 2010, 2:30 AM
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nessie wrote:
Hmmm, sharing a tent with a girl less than half your age? i don't know but it sounds pretty creepy to me...Climbing wise if the guy wants to teach her the ropes great but there is a line between teaching and all the rest...

I tried to tell her saying he's a guy and I don't think its fatherly. I think he's just being super patient with her above and beyond any partner. He belayed her on a climb for 45 minutes (illusion dweller).
But what can I do?


nessie


Dec 13, 2010, 3:23 AM
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Re: [enigma] The Climbing Game [In reply to]
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I don't know whether you actually know the girl or the guy...if you don't really know her and you've tried to warn her than there is nothing more that you can do. However awfull it may sound it isn't your problem. However if you know her well enough than you might need to talk to her again or even her parents....


dan2see


Dec 13, 2010, 6:38 AM
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He likes her rack.

Hey! maybe the guy is cool, but the situation is not cool.

They can go climbing together, but not sleeping together.

Last summer I went scrambling a lot with my scramble-buddy, a young lady less than half my age. We had a lot of fun with rocks and flowers, and sometimes sociology. But when we got back to ground level, I drove her home to her mother.


(This post was edited by dan2see on Dec 13, 2010, 6:41 AM)


wonderwoman


Dec 13, 2010, 7:20 AM
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Tip off her parents. I would flip out, if I were her mother. That's just gross, and the kid has no idea what an older man's intentions might be. She probably enjoys the attention of an adult that she respects. 17 is still innocent. She's a child.


Partner macherry


Dec 13, 2010, 8:46 AM
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wonderwoman wrote:
Tip off her parents. I would flip out, if I were her mother. That's just gross, and the kid has no idea what an older man's intentions might be. She probably enjoys the attention of an adult that she respects. 17 is still innocent. She's a child.


+1


lena_chita
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Dec 13, 2010, 9:40 AM
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I didn't know it was called "The Climbing Game"...

As for the rest... hard to tell without knowing the people involved. It could be a legitimate situation of an older mentor talking a girl under his wing, or it could be creepy.


What exactly is your stake in this?


Do her parents know? I am presuming that she lives at home still. So if this guy is taking her on "private trips", presumably the parents are O.K. with her taking these trips with the guy?

I know that as a parent I would make it my business to know who my daughter is climbing with, and I cannot conceive of letting her go on a climbing trip without me PERSONALY knowing her partners/belayers. But I am looking at it as a climber parent.

It might be different for parents who are not familiar with the climbing community... And I also understand that there is no end to a teenage inventiveness when it comes to evading parental supervision...


Partner macherry


Dec 13, 2010, 9:45 AM
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enigma wrote:
I climb with a group of locals and recently a new 17 old girl broke up with her climbing bf so this guy maybe 50 decided to take her under his wing. First thing he did while camping was share her two room tent w her. He's a excellent climber 5.11-5.12 and in a Ivy League PHD program. So he's teaching her to lead harder routes. She thinks he want to be a father figure. Slowly he's trying to isolate her and take her on these private trips. She seems so naive with his intentions. Could it be altrustic or is it a climbing game?

it doesn't matter if this guy is an excellent climber or has a phd. if he's trying to isolate her and take her on climbing trips............ i don't know a bigger red flag.


lena_chita
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Dec 13, 2010, 12:09 PM
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macherry wrote:
enigma wrote:
I climb with a group of locals and recently a new 17 old girl broke up with her climbing bf so this guy maybe 50 decided to take her under his wing. First thing he did while camping was share her two room tent w her. He's a excellent climber 5.11-5.12 and in a Ivy League PHD program. So he's teaching her to lead harder routes. She thinks he want to be a father figure. Slowly he's trying to isolate her and take her on these private trips. She seems so naive with his intentions. Could it be altrustic or is it a climbing game?

it doesn't matter if this guy is an excellent climber or has a phd. if he's trying to isolate her and take her on climbing trips............ i don't know a bigger red flag.

Yes, of course. If this is in fact the situation.



I don't know what makes me question the OP's view of the situation, but for some reason I am.

Picture 1: creepy 50yo outsider takes sudden interest in 17yo, isolates her from all her friends in a group she used to climb with, starts poisoning her mind against her former friends, etc, etc. Everyone is concerned.

Picture 2: a 50yo climber is feeling fed up with the gossipy bunch of climbers that he has to contend with at the gym. He is stronger than the rest of them, but his usual partners are all out for some reason or another, so he makes do with random people. Then he notices a young girl, who hasn't been climbing for a long time, but she is showing potential. She is also currently without partners, after a break-up with her bf. He starts climbing with her and teaching her. People start gossiping, this makes him more isolated from the group, so he spends more time with the girl, who turns out to be a pretty good climbing partner. Gossip increases...




I don't know what's going on.

But I know that if *I* were anywhere near the situation, I wouldn't be posting online to ask what to do. If I were genuinely concerned about this girl, I would be trying to include her in my group of climber friends, introduce her to good solid climbers closer to her age, and otherwise keep an eye on her.

I would make it a point to find out what her family situation is, but my first assumption from across the country, not knowing anyone personally, would be that she lives at home with parents, and thus the parents O.K. her climbing trips, and maybe they have a reason why they think it is O.k.



What do we know?

The large age difference? Yes, it is unusual. Most 50 yolds don't show interest in being with 17yolds. So he must creep? ...or maybe he isn't. I had a firend who had a difficult family situation, and after several quick break-ups with teenage boyfriends she was in a pretty bad shape. Until she started spending a lot of time with this guy, who was more than twice her age, and recently lost his wife and two teenage kids in a car accident. It was the best thing that happened to both of them. And no, she was never involved with him. But the gossip mill was running full-force, and that forced them to be more isoated than they had any reason to be.


He shared a tent with her? And how does the OP know about it? Oh, the 50yo climber and the 17yo girl were not making it a secret that they were sharing a two-room tent? Maybe there wasn't anything they were trying to hide? Bc, you know, the 17yo might not be experienced enough, but the 50 yold is definitely experienced enough to know that people would talk, so if he were after sleeping with this girl, he might have been a bit more sneaky about it...

So either he is a complete idiot (with a PhD), or a creep who doesn't know how to go about being discreet, or he just didn't anticipate that people would talk because the thought of sexual attraction to this 17yo was about as far from his mind as the thought of attraction to his (hypothetical) 25yo daughter.

He takes her on "private trips"? Hmmm, I thought most climbing trips were like that... unless you mean the gumby group-a-thron! Of course, anyone who might want to avoid going on a 15-climber climbing trip, and instead wants to go with just one partner must be a creep.

He belayed her on a project for 45 minutes? Gee, must be DEFINITELY a creep. I mean, every single person who has belayed me on a long hangdogging session obviously wanted to sleep with me. And I, of course, never belay anyone one their project unless I really, really want to look at their butt, and geting all sorts of weird tingles from that.





Like I said, all we know is one POV, and for some reason I have trouble accepting it as unbiased. So I am making up an alternative story.


caughtinside


Dec 13, 2010, 12:40 PM
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I know all that there is to know, about the climbing game... the climbing game...


kiwiprincess


Dec 13, 2010, 1:30 PM
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I would have been just fine in this situation at that age. I could easily tell someone where to get if I was uncomfortable.
On the other hand it is an age where you can be unsure of yourself and led.

Talk to her about it. Ask if her parents know who she is climbing with?


chadnsc


Dec 13, 2010, 2:34 PM
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Re: [macherry] The Climbing Game [In reply to]
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macherry wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
Tip off her parents. I would flip out, if I were her mother. That's just gross, and the kid has no idea what an older man's intentions might be. She probably enjoys the attention of an adult that she respects. 17 is still innocent. She's a child.


+1

+2

She's a child, tell her parents.


(This post was edited by chadnsc on Dec 13, 2010, 2:34 PM)


clee03m


Dec 13, 2010, 4:20 PM
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I'm kinda with Lena on this one. I would assume her parents know what's going on. If so, I think it's possible for a 50 year old and 17 year old to climb together. It is also possible for them to sleep in the same tent without being sexual. OK maybe the dude may be attracted to her, but hopefully he won't show that or act on it.

Taking her on private trips? You mean they go climbing alone? Don't we do that alot when we climb multiple pitch?

I don't know. I think it's possible they are really good partners. I for one like climbing with dudes in their 50's. They tend to have decades of experience under their belt, know their rescue shit really well, married, chilled out, and ego is not in their vocabulary. And no weird sexual tension at least from my part, and they know better than to show it if they feel it.

Then again, he could be a pedophile. But honestly, I would be more worried about some horny 20 some year old than this dude.


wonderwoman


Dec 13, 2010, 4:35 PM
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I think enigma needs to give us more info. I hate to get all 'Dr. Drew', but you have to wonder where Daddy is.

I worked in a shelter where enough young girls were taken advantage of by older men who they trusted. This makes me skeptical. That, and I do not know any 50 year od men (or women) who want to spend a whole lot of one on one attention to a child who is not their own. It's not an every day thing. And yes, 17ys is still a child on the inside even if she may not look like one on the outside. It's worrisome.


enigma


Dec 13, 2010, 5:15 PM
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 First of all I know her a couple of months, I do not know her parents.
When she told me about sharing her tent I said he's a guy her response was it was for 2 persons.
I think its a Lolita type relationship in the making . I could be wrong.
However last time I saw them he referred to her as her partner and wouldn't climb with any of his friends at all. He's not married and not very attractive. So climbing is his game.
There's only so much I can do .


(This post was edited by enigma on Dec 13, 2010, 5:21 PM)


smallclimber


Dec 13, 2010, 5:31 PM
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Re: [enigma] The Climbing Game [In reply to]
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You could show him this article from todays newspaper.....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...r-old-boyfriend.html


"German man castrates teenage daughter's 57-year-old boyfriend
An enraged father who disapproved of his daughter's older boyfriend went to his home and castrated him with a bread knife.
By Allan Hall, Berlin 10:11PM GMT 12 Dec 2010
Helmut Seifert, 47, an ethnic German originally from Russia, was enraged when he heard his 17-year-old daughter was having a relationship with Phillip Genscher, 57"

OK seriously I don't know what to suggest, I know 17 is very young and impressionable but even if it were a sexual relationship its not actually illegal (or not in the UK, is 16 age of consent in US?) and he is not her teacher/professor etc. You can try to help but you might find the group's dissaproval might only make her (and him!) more determined.


sbaclimber


Dec 14, 2010, 1:07 PM
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smallclimber wrote:
You could show him this article from todays newspaper.....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...r-old-boyfriend.html


"German man castrates teenage daughter's 57-year-old boyfriend
An enraged father who disapproved of his daughter's older boyfriend went to his home and castrated him with a bread knife.
By Allan Hall, Berlin 10:11PM GMT 12 Dec 2010
Helmut Seifert, 47, an ethnic German originally from Russia, was enraged when he heard his 17-year-old daughter was having a relationship with Phillip Genscher, 57"
I've heard of scaring the boyfriend by greeting him with a shotgun at the door...but castration is just taking things a wee (way!) bit too far. Pirate
Lesson learned: don't date any one who is absolute psycho or related to one...


(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Dec 14, 2010, 1:07 PM)


danabart


Dec 14, 2010, 4:25 PM
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None of us knows the whole story or the people involved. It's entirely possible the whole thing is innocent: absolutely. And I could see spending the day climbing with a 17-year-old female. But I am 59; you would have to be an idiot to be a man of that age and not see all the potential hassles. She can have the tent; I'll sleep some place else. Yes, yes, yes, it may be above board. But no one needs to do that and who wants all the potential fallout?


(This post was edited by danabart on Dec 14, 2010, 4:26 PM)


lhwang


Dec 14, 2010, 7:07 PM
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I'm confused by the intent of your post. Is this girl a friend of yours and you want to know how you can help her or prevent her from getting hurt? Or is the purpose of your post to gossip maliciously about two people behind their backs? I sincerely hope it's not the latter.


enigma


Dec 14, 2010, 11:54 PM
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lhwang wrote:
I'm confused by the intent of your post. Is this girl a friend of yours and you want to know how you can help her or prevent her from getting hurt? Or is the purpose of your post to gossip maliciously about two people behind their backs? I sincerely hope it's not the latter.

There is no intent I just posted this because I think it helps people to become aware of real situations. Or perhaps someone has experienced something similar.

I won't even respond further to your negative
inappropriate comments.


I like this girl very much and care about her.
I've offered to speak to her on the phone or in person if she would like and to be there for her.

If you have nothing helpful to add it okay just to read without post.


(This post was edited by enigma on Dec 15, 2010, 12:11 AM)


gblauer
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Dec 15, 2010, 6:07 AM
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I have seen this before (more than once, in climbing and in gymnastics) and on each occasion it absolutely evovled into a sexual relationship. In one case, the couple actually got engaged, despite the age difference. I can tell you that years after, each of the young women felt victimized and abused (with the exception of the engaged couple).

This situation smacks of creepiness. The guy should have his head examined and the young woman should focus on finding a less risky partner. The problem is, she is probably enjoying the attention.


Partner macherry


Dec 15, 2010, 8:34 AM
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enigma wrote:
lhwang wrote:
I'm confused by the intent of your post. Is this girl a friend of yours and you want to know how you can help her or prevent her from getting hurt? Or is the purpose of your post to gossip maliciously about two people behind their backs? I sincerely hope it's not the latter.

There is no intent I just posted this because I think it helps people to become aware of real situations. Or perhaps someone has experienced something similar.

I won't even respond further to your negative
inappropriate comments.


I like this girl very much and care about her.
I've offered to speak to her on the phone or in person if she would like and to be there for her.

If you have nothing helpful to add it okay just to read without post.

if i read anything into ihwang's comments or any others is that you are the only one to know the "whole" story. none of us are there to observe or comment on this situation. If it is happening as you suggest, there are big warning signs. i don't think you need the rest of us to confirm this. you are the one who asked us if this is altruistic or a climbing game


airscape


Dec 15, 2010, 10:34 AM
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enigma wrote:
lhwang wrote:
I'm confused by the intent of your post. Is this girl a friend of yours and you want to know how you can help her or prevent her from getting hurt? Or is the purpose of your post to gossip maliciously about two people behind their backs? I sincerely hope it's not the latter.

There is no intent I just posted this because I think it helps people to become aware of real situations. Or perhaps someone has experienced something similar.

I won't even respond further to your negative
inappropriate comments.


I like this girl very much and care about her.
I've offered to speak to her on the phone or in person if she would like and to be there for her.

If you have nothing helpful to add it okay just to read without post.

I see.

You're just jealous because she won't sleep in your tent.

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