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ErikF


Dec 23, 2010, 5:20 AM
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Scottsdale-PinnaclePeak-Tom'sThumb-McDowells
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Scottsdale rock climbing update – Pinnacle Peak and North McDowells

For the past decade local climbers have been working with the City of Scottsdale to maintain the great rock climbing resources in north Scottsdale. Scottsdale’s climbing occurs in three somewhat distinct areas – Here are some updates or things to keep in mind as you may plan your climbing trips. Winter is a great time to visit.

Pinnacle Peak Park

Great work by local climbers in the past allowed for the City to develop a rock climbing plan for some of the crags in the Park. “Climber only” paths lead from the main trail to such crags as Pinnacle Peak itself, AMC Boulder, Y-Crack and Cactus Flower.

The main thing to be aware of is that Park rules are very specific that it is a trespass violation to be caught within the park boundaries before sunrise or after sunset. “Stuck ropes” is not an excuse. Plan your day accordingly. Expect the rule to be enforced with heavy fines if it is violated.

North McDowells (south of Dynamite – Tom’s Thumb and vicinity)

With the City’s approval of a rock climbing plan last year to preserve the historic rock climbing, the ongoing development of climber paths to the climbing crags, and the installation of trail signage provided by a grant the AMC received from the Access Fund, rock climbing in the McDowell Sonoran Preserve is established. There are dozens of crags and hundreds of granite climbs.

The main distinction with this climbing resource is that it exists within the McDowell Sonoran Preserve that has very strict guidelines to protect the physical and living environment. For example, no camping and no off trail hiking are allowed. Climbers must stay on the designated access paths. Chapter 21 of City Code stipulates uses and practices in the Preserve.

This month the City of Scottsdale approved the plans for the Tom's Thumb Trail Head. This was the culmination of a long process of engineering studies, the staff’s evaluation of opportunities and constraints, and public out reach that involved multiple meetings with various user groups and the public at large by the City. Under the approved plan and due to the City’s site design requirements the trail head will be built at approximately 128th Street and El Paraiso alignments, which will mean another 5 to 10 minutes of hiking to the main crags.

See Marked Council Agenda - December 13, 2010 - Item 8 (clicking on the item takes you via hyperlink to the staff report) http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/...0_Regular_Agenda.pdf

See Planning Commission Minutes - October 27, 2010 - Item 4 (clicking on the item takes you via hyperlink to the staff report) http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/...Approved_Minutes.pdf

Construction will begin in 2011 with completion in late Spring 2012. We hope to be able to maintain reasonable access during the construction process. It is likely that some or total disruption will occur during the construction process. It is important that climbers respect any and all City requests, signage and closures.

Remember - the major goal was to keep all of the historic rock climbing in the north McDowells and we are on track to meet that objective.

North McDowells – north of Dynamite

Climbing remains open on the crags surround Little Granite Mountain and Cholla Mountain. The main concern for climbers is that the land is within the Recommended Study Boundary of the McDowell Sonoran Preserve so all the protective rules of the Preserve are in effect.

But even more importantly near term is that the land is owned by the State as State Trust Land. All climbers on State Trust Land should obtain the necessary use permits from the State Land Department which are available on their web site. Possession of the necessary permits is being enforced by the City of Scottsdale Police Department and fines involve potential trespassing violations.

Erik Filsinger
AMC Land Advocacy Chair


pheenixx


Dec 23, 2010, 12:47 PM
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Re: [ErikF] Scottsdale-PinnaclePeak-Tom'sThumb-McDowells [In reply to]
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YOU DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT ACCESS IN ARIZONA

STAY OUT of access issues Erik --you screwed up the location of the trailhead for climbers in the McDowells and now you are negotiating to LOOSE Oak Flat & Queen Creek..!!!

YOUR HELP will NOT be necessary in 2011
thank you


ErikF


Dec 24, 2010, 5:42 AM
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Re: [pheenixx] Scottsdale-PinnaclePeak-Tom'sThumb-McDowells [In reply to]
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pheenixx wrote:
YOU DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT ACCESS IN ARIZONA

STAY OUT of access issues Erik --you screwed up the location of the trailhead for climbers in the McDowells ..!!!

YOUR HELP will NOT be necessary in 2011
thank you

Hi Kirra (pheenixx),
And a good day to you too...

Seems like Scottsdale is another area where we disagree, though I'm not sure what your objection is. If you don't like the plan, contact the City. The City's planning for the Preserve developed over many years and I don't recall your involvement in any of the many meetings, trail building sessions, and the like, so you might be missing some facts. The area is part of the City of Scottsdale's McDowell Sonoran Preserve and the City has very specific policies governing the Preserve, design of improvements and the like.

In general the City has been very good to rock climbing in the Preserve and it is incorrect to believe otherwise given that for many of members of the preservation movement in Scottsdale rock climbing is a somewhat foreign enterprise they initially believed was incompatible with the mission of the Preserve. It bears keeping in mind that, when climbing on someone else's land, rock climbing is a privilege that has to be earned and maintained, not a right. But if you disagree, let the City know.

...so I suspect we disagree, again...

But in the spirit of the Season, Happy Holidays in hopefully a white Denver, Kirra, and I hope that 2011 will be a good year for you, the "best ever," as the saying goes. I plan to make it so for me.

Erik


pheenixx


Dec 24, 2010, 8:11 AM
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Re: [ErikF] Scottsdale-PinnaclePeak-Tom'sThumb-McDowells [In reply to]
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HAHAHAHAHAA-- you think you know it all, never a good thing to assume anything..!!!

not sure who you think I am or who your speaking of but your personal battles here are not of my (or the communities) concern

you seem to be good at finger pointing behind closed doors -guess it's nice to be good at something


gecko4


Dec 29, 2010, 11:12 AM
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Re: [ErikF] Scottsdale-PinnaclePeak-Tom'sThumb-McDowells [In reply to]
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Erik,

In all fairness, if one is going to demand/call out for tranparency here on the forums, shouldn't you also let people know when you are posting about issues related to City of Scottsdale lands that you are also an appointed member of the Scottsdale Planning Commission until at least 4/25/12? Not that I agree with flaming others at all as has been done to you above, just a goose/gander sort of thing.

http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/boards/pc.asp

For me, knowing that you represent one of the local climbing club's view on this issue and are an appointee to the governing municipality's land planning board helps me more clearly interpret your posts, not that there is any overlap of course.

Thank you,

Fred


(This post was edited by gecko4 on Dec 29, 2010, 11:25 AM)


Gmburns2000


Dec 29, 2010, 12:26 PM
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Re: [pheenixx] Scottsdale-PinnaclePeak-Tom'sThumb-McDowells [In reply to]
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pheenixx wrote:
YOU DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT ACCESS IN ARIZONA

STAY OUT of access issues Erik --you screwed up the location of the trailhead for climbers in the McDowells and now you are negotiating to LOOSE Oak Flat & Queen Creek..!!!

YOUR HELP will NOT be necessary in 2011
thank you




kovacs69


Dec 29, 2010, 3:52 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Scottsdale-PinnaclePeak-Tom'sThumb-McDowells [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
pheenixx wrote:
YOU DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT ACCESS IN ARIZONA

STAY OUT of access issues Erik --you screwed up the location of the trailhead for climbers in the McDowells and now you are negotiating to LOOSE Oak Flat & Queen Creek..!!!

YOUR HELP will NOT be necessary in 2011
thank you

[image]http://www.cre8asiteforums.com/forums/style_emoticons/others/popcorn.gif[/image]

+1


ErikF


Jan 5, 2011, 7:59 AM
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Re: [gecko4] Scottsdale-PinnaclePeak-Tom'sThumb-McDowells [In reply to]
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Hi Fred/Kirra,

We know each other well, but for the record the Planning Commission is the body, mandated by Arizona Statutes and codified into City Ordinance, that makes recommendation to the City Council on most matters relating to land use, zoning, etc. I have had the honor of serving on that body after being appointed by City Council a couple of years ago. I have a degree in City Planning and the position draws on professional and avocation experience. By profession I am the Chief Operation Officer of a civil engineering company.

I also can mention that prior to that I served 6 years on the McDowell Sonoran Preserve Commission, the last couple as Vice Chair. That is the City body that makes recommendation to City Council on matters relating to the McDowell Sonoran Preserve, where the north McDowell climbing areas are located. Starting in the 1990's I also participated and served on the MSPC's planning sub-committee. An effort has been made from its inception in the early 1990's to include various stakeholders and user groups in the planning process for the Preserve. As a general rule across all of its citizen advisory committees, the City goes to considerable efforts to involve its citizens.

Both the Planning Commission and the McDowell Sonoran Preserve Commission are governed by City and State open meeting laws and there is a full public record available for all meetings, which themselves are open to the public.

Along the way I and others worked with City staff to identify the historic climbing areas, mainly based on Waugh's, Opland's, and Karabin's climbing guides as well as field investigations, and have them reflected on the Preserve's rock climbing plan. We were able to justify many more climbing crags than were originally anticipated by staff and they have been very open to input. I also worked with City staff to layout the approved climber trails, construct those trails and maintain same. More recently I worked with the AMC to obtain the grant from the Access Fund to purchase and subsequently install the trail markers to help keep climbers on the sanctioned climber trails and help them hike from the main City trail system to the crags.

Looking forward to another great year.

Best,
Erik Filsinger


pheenixx


Jan 5, 2011, 3:43 PM
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Re: [ErikF] Scottsdale-PinnaclePeak-Tom'sThumb-McDowells [In reply to]
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ErikF/Egomaniac/Selfinterest-Lobyist/Sham-man/Rick/Paul/....
People Of Unquestionable Shame

can't stomach reading any more *$?% spewed toward mysterious identities in your quest for fame

personal corp. "medals" DO NOT automatically grant anyone the authorization to deceive others

you forgot to mention you are currently behind Legal court actions attacking fellow climbers because they are trying to defend and protect their climbing lands


your an an access chair..?!?!? --It's on the Internet, so it must be. The only access you should have from that chair is... {personal thoughts inserted here}

mention the meetings that you didn't tell the climbers about, on the initial planning stages of the McDowells Preserve --oops..!! Now there is no $$ planned in for that familiar trailhead folks wanted --oops..!! Some are really tired of your personal & political 'special interest agenda' and it's negative effects

If you had to take a potty break during that meeting you should have at least had the smarts to back that moment up -bye


ErikF


Jan 5, 2011, 4:37 PM
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Re: [pheenixx] Scottsdale-PinnaclePeak-Tom'sThumb-McDowells [In reply to]
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pheenixx wrote:
ErikF/Egomaniac/Selfinterest-Lobyist/Sham-man/Rick/Paul/....
People Of Unquestionable Shame

can't stomach reading any more *$?% spewed toward mysterious identities in your quest for fame

personal corp. "medals" DO NOT automatically grant anyone the authorization to deceive others

you forgot to mention you are currently behind Legal court actions attacking fellow climbers because they are trying to defend and protect their climbing lands


your an an access chair..?!?!? --It's on the Internet, so it must be. The only access you should have from that chair is... {personal thoughts inserted here}

mention the meetings that you didn't tell the climbers about, on the initial planning stages of the McDowells Preserve --oops..!! Now there is no $$ planned in for that familiar trailhead folks wanted --oops..!! Some are really tired of your personal & political 'special interest agenda' and it's negative effects

If you had to take a potty break during that meeting you should have at least had the smarts to back that moment up -bye

Thanks, Kirra.


Partner gandolf


Jan 6, 2011, 7:27 AM
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Re: [pheenixx] Scottsdale-PinnaclePeak-Tom'sThumb-McDowells [In reply to]
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pheenixx,

Yes I too hoped to have a parking lot in the location of the 'temporary' North McDowell's Access Area parking, but unfortunately the City of Scottsdale didn't see the advantage of a parking lot "just for climbers" in that area. In reality the area of the new proposed parking lot will only add a .5 to 1 mile hike to the climbing area's (depending on which area you choose to climb at). That equates to 10 - 20 minutes of walking added on to your climbing time. Is that really worth getting that upset over? Personally I am glad that the City of Scottsdale has been working with local climbers to keep all of the area's open for climbing.


gecko4


Jan 13, 2011, 11:43 AM
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Re: [ErikF] Scottsdale-PinnaclePeak-Tom'sThumb-McDowells [In reply to]
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ErikF wrote:
We know each other well

Actually Erik, we don't, er, didn't, but now . . . maybe a little better . . .

I'm not sure that others in the climbing community do either but of course you've provided some more insight in your tome above. Like I discussed in my post, I simply said that if one demands transparency, then one should expect it to be demanded of themselves on these forums.

I appreciate the information that you've provided. It's clear that you are involved with a lot of things and have done a lot of things. You obviously have many pokers in the fire and there are by your own admission a lot of levers at your disposal so-to-speak, at least that's pretty easy to conclude.

Regardless of how you manipulate these things, and I use this term only to illustrate the obvious necessity for dexterity and diplomacy in what could certainly become conflicting situations, I now know you better, though certainly not well. I feel that with your involvement in a diverse range of deals and a clear propensity to wear so many hats of different color I am better informed to judge what you have to say when you speak for yourself and your interests, whatever they may be at the time.

Thank you and Best Regards.

Fred


(This post was edited by gecko4 on Jan 13, 2011, 11:52 AM)


gecko4


Feb 15, 2011, 2:08 PM
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ErikF wrote:
Hi Fred/Kirra,

We know each other well, but for the record the Planning Commission is the body, mandated by Arizona Statutes and codified into City Ordinance, that makes recommendation to the City Council on most matters relating to land use, zoning, etc. I have had the honor of serving on that body after being appointed by City Council a couple of years ago. I have a degree in City Planning and the position draws on professional and avocation experience. By profession I am the Chief Operation Officer of a civil engineering company.

I also can mention that prior to that I served 6 years on the McDowell Sonoran Preserve Commission, the last couple as Vice Chair. That is the City body that makes recommendation to City Council on matters relating to the McDowell Sonoran Preserve, where the north McDowell climbing areas are located. Starting in the 1990's I also participated and served on the MSPC's planning sub-committee. An effort has been made from its inception in the early 1990's to include various stakeholders and user groups in the planning process for the Preserve. As a general rule across all of its citizen advisory committees, the City goes to considerable efforts to involve its citizens.

Both the Planning Commission and the McDowell Sonoran Preserve Commission are governed by City and State open meeting laws and there is a full public record available for all meetings, which themselves are open to the public.

Along the way I and others worked with City staff to identify the historic climbing areas, mainly based on Waugh's, Opland's, and Karabin's climbing guides as well as field investigations, and have them reflected on the Preserve's rock climbing plan. We were able to justify many more climbing crags than were originally anticipated by staff and they have been very open to input. I also worked with City staff to layout the approved climber trails, construct those trails and maintain same. More recently I worked with the AMC to obtain the grant from the Access Fund to purchase and subsequently install the trail markers to help keep climbers on the sanctioned climber trails and help them hike from the main City trail system to the crags.

Looking forward to another great year.

Best,
Erik Filsinger

Thanks again.

Fred


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