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If its a first acent how do you rate it???
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clmerma


Nov 14, 2001, 2:52 PM
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If its a first acent how do you rate it???
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If you get the chance to find a virgin rock face and bolt the crap out of it to set up your new climbs. What frame of reference do you use toi rate your problems?
Also if you rate it according to other climbs could those be off from like other well know well climbed. ie could you get on a 5.11b at your local crag and did a 5.9 kick you up a wall over a Rumney Rocks?


compclimber


Nov 14, 2001, 3:05 PM
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 I agree with "thetechnician" I hardly understand what your talking about. Could you clear it up a little bit.


Partner rrrADAM


Nov 14, 2001, 5:18 PM
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It's rated
subjectively
based on your experience.


saltspringer


Nov 14, 2001, 6:01 PM
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I've always rated to them subject to change...maybe I was really focused & feeling good so I sandbagged a bit, if other people climb the route & feel it's harder/easier, I'll usually change the grade, otherwise, the grade doesn't really help anyone else.

One climb that is way sandbagged is Doublecross in Jtree & I've heard that it leads to alot of problems; why not just tell it like it is & call it 5.9?


greatgarbanzo


Nov 14, 2001, 6:02 PM
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Ok, the situation you are picturing is my averyday climbing situation...

I bolt (dont bolt the hell out...) the wall usually before even top roping the route... I do his because i have lots f experience in determinating how the route is going to be and how the sequence it is just by looking at the wall... you may want to TR the route first just to see which are going to be the clipping holds.

After that you have to redpoint or onsigth the route

That done you can rate it.... HOW? well... i am writing an article rigth now on HOW TO RATE A ROUTE The article is based on the idea that the best way to rate a route is to get a given number of climbers (lets say... 10) to send the route. After they send the route you have to ask their opinion (to each one of them and separately) of how hard they think the route is. Then use this table to convert each of the ratings to the NUMERICAL SYSTEM:

5.7=7 5.11a=14
5.8=8 5.11b=15
5.9=9 5.11c=16
5.10a=10 5.11d=17
5.10b=11 5.12a=18
5.10c=12 5.12b=19
5.10d=13 5.12c=20...and so on...

...that done you simply make and average of the all the ratings toll to you by the 10 climbers and THATS THE RATING OF THE ROUTE!!!

Example for 5 climbers:
Climber Rating Conversion to the Nu.Sys.
1 5.10c 12
2 5.10d 13
3 5.10a 10
4 5.9 9
5 5.10b 11

AVERAGE = 11
Conversion to YDS. AVERAGE = 5.10b

ON MY ARTICLE I USE STATISTICAL INFORMATION COLLECTED THROUGHT THE NET SO YOU GET THE OPINION OF 200 CLIMBERS. This makes the grading more accurate and easy... now...

PLEASE HELP ME BY SUBMITING YOUR INFO AT:

http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=3703&forum=36

THANX


rocmonkey


Nov 23, 2001, 1:26 AM
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If you "bolt the hell out of the rock" you have:

1. No Respect for nature
2. No Respect for other climbers, and
3. Frankly I don't think you should be associated with our sport.

breathe stone
RoC

[ This Message was edited by: rocmonkey on 2001-11-23 01:27 ]


saltspringer


Nov 23, 2001, 2:36 AM
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yep, like rocmonkey said...first ascents don't mean much if all you're doing is trying to get your name in a guide book; sometimes it's better to TR a line and say "hey, that line is like 10 others around here so why add another route that's exactly the same?". It's easy to bolt routes almost anywhere there's a stretch of rock but that doesn't mean that you're contributing anything worthwhile to a climbing area...think before you bolt


jds100


Nov 23, 2001, 10:44 AM
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Clmerma: I hope you -and every climber- knows not to "bolt the crap out of" ANY bit of rock. If someone has told you that's how routes are established, please consider them wrong. Keep reading on this website, and in books, and you'll quickly realize how wrong that idea is. And, because you are from my home area, you should also know that "bolt[ing] the crap" out of rock in Missouri and southern Illinois will win you a lot of mean enemies.

As far as rating routes, I really have not had a problem considering what to rate new climbs in my area. I think if a climber has climbed a lot of routes, of a lot of different grades (ratings), especially in the area where the new climb is located, then hopefully that climber would have a good sense of what the ratings would feel like. I strongly object to someone establishing a route, and attaching a rating, without having climbed it, and without having the ability to climb it at all. I've seen that, and I think it's irresponsible, arrogant, and pretty damn stupid.

Clmerma, I personally don't think a climber is 'qualified' to establish a new route until he/she has a lot of climbing, on lead, on the resume. There is so much to developing a route or an area that needs to be understood, in addition to climbing ability. Talk to experienced -and I mean GENUINELY experienced climber- and climb a lot (years), before you presume to establish a route. It's not about getting your name in a guidebook; there's no respect for trashing the rock.

Garbonzo: I don't believe you can 'onsight' a route that you've rap-bolted and cleaned, but that's a different forum. Also, I do want some sense of consensus about the rating, but, again, if I don't have some sense of the rating of the route, at least within the number grade, I don't think I have any business putting the route up.



[ This Message was edited by: jds100 on 2001-11-23 10:47 ]


talons05


Dec 16, 2001, 10:15 PM
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I think Great G's explanation and system would work well in any area. And, I don't necessarily agree with Salt. ("why add another route that's exactly the same") No two routes are exactly the same. And getting FA's is not just about getting your name in the books. It gives you a sense of pride to say - I was the first to climb that. (Plus you get to give it a cool name) I don't think there's anything wrong with going for an accomplishment like a FA.

AW


beanny


Dec 29, 2001, 7:51 AM
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ahmm..not sure if this msg belongs...anyway can a rock wall 'route' be rated like the others?


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