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bampoulin
Jan 3, 2011, 6:57 PM
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The manufacturers do not seem to make kids ice gear. I'm looking for info on setting up a 7yr old girl to ice climb. Seems getting a boot/crampon set is the most difficult challenge. She can swing a hammer ok, so an ice pick might be ok. She is a good rock climber, now we want to try ice. Any ideas on putting together those items or general comments about kids ice climbing would be great. Thanks.
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shoo
Jan 3, 2011, 7:21 PM
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bampoulin wrote: The manufacturers do not seem to make kids ice gear. I'm looking for info on setting up a 7yr old girl to ice climb. Seems getting a boot/crampon set is the most difficult challenge. She can swing a hammer ok, so an ice pick might be ok. She is a good rock climber, now we want to try ice. Any ideas on putting together those items or general comments about kids ice climbing would be great. Thanks.
Are you an experienced ice climber yourself, or is this just something you want to try on a whim? That you have referred to ice tools as "ice picks" suggests the latter, but I may be wrong.
I can't think of any ice gear that would be remotely usable for a 7 year old, and probably for good reason. I personally don't think ice is in any way an appropriate environment for children that young, both because I doubt they'd be able to do it well enough to have fun, and because of excessive danger.
Even with ideal equipment, I highly doubt that a child would be able to swing an ice tool or kick a crampon with enough force and coordination to be able to penetrate the ice sufficiently to create solid tool and foot placement. It's really just a matter of physics. You need a certain amount of power and control to be able to swing tools and feet. 7 year olds just won't have it.
You also have to add in the additional issues of temperature and moisture management that are more pronounced in ice climbing than in other winter sports. Between those two, you have a child who likely won't be able to climb much, and may be miserable.
That's not even addressing the issues with safety. Ice is not at all the same environment as rock. The objective dangers in ice are far greater than rock, both in terms of severity and likelihood of occurrence. I am all for kids getting their hands dirty and playing rough in the outdoors, but I sincerely think that this is way too much.
If you decide to pursue this further, contact a reputable guiding service and ask their opinion. I suspect they will have similar feelings on the subject.
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jeepnphreak
Jan 3, 2011, 9:51 PM
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I know I have seen 8-9 year old ice climbing in my area.
The tools I know I have seen
ice tool:
http://www.amazon.com/Lil-Monster-Ice-Tool-Grivel/dp/B000T26OJU
as for boots most I have seen wear a child sized ski boot.
I have not seen a kids mountaineering boot.
Crampons Im not so sure about...
It looks like you are in WI
check out these guys and they may have better answers for you
http://www.theicepit.org/
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dr_feelgood
Jan 3, 2011, 9:55 PM
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shoo wrote: bampoulin wrote: The manufacturers do not seem to make kids ice gear. I'm looking for info on setting up a 7yr old girl to ice climb. Seems getting a boot/crampon set is the most difficult challenge. She can swing a hammer ok, so an ice pick might be ok. She is a good rock climber, now we want to try ice. Any ideas on putting together those items or general comments about kids ice climbing would be great. Thanks. Are you an experienced ice climber yourself, or is this just something you want to try on a whim? That you have referred to ice tools as "ice picks" suggests the latter, but I may be wrong. I can't think of any ice gear that would be remotely usable for a 7 year old, and probably for good reason. I personally don't think ice is in any way an appropriate environment for children that young, both because I doubt they'd be able to do it well enough to have fun, and because of excessive danger. Even with ideal equipment, I highly doubt that a child would be able to swing an ice tool or kick a crampon with enough force and coordination to be able to penetrate the ice sufficiently to create solid tool and foot placement. It's really just a matter of physics. You need a certain amount of power and control to be able to swing tools and feet. 7 year olds just won't have it. You also have to add in the additional issues of temperature and moisture management that are more pronounced in ice climbing than in other winter sports. Between those two, you have a child who likely won't be able to climb much, and may be miserable. That's not even addressing the issues with safety. Ice is not at all the same environment as rock. The objective dangers in ice are far greater than rock, both in terms of severity and likelihood of occurrence. I am all for kids getting their hands dirty and playing rough in the outdoors, but I sincerely think that this is way too much. If you decide to pursue this further, contact a reputable guiding service and ask their opinion. I suspect they will have similar feelings on the subject.
+1. Do not expect me to apologize if I send off a chunk of ice and it hits your precious child. Ice climbing is inherently more hazardous than rock climbing, even in the most controlled environment.
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iknowfear
Jan 3, 2011, 11:10 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: shoo wrote: bampoulin wrote: The manufacturers do not seem to make kids ice gear. I'm looking for info on setting up a 7yr old girl to ice climb. Seems getting a boot/crampon set is the most difficult challenge. She can swing a hammer ok, so an ice pick might be ok. She is a good rock climber, now we want to try ice. Any ideas on putting together those items or general comments about kids ice climbing would be great. Thanks. Are you an experienced ice climber yourself, or is this just something you want to try on a whim? That you have referred to ice tools as "ice picks" suggests the latter, but I may be wrong. I can't think of any ice gear that would be remotely usable for a 7 year old, and probably for good reason. I personally don't think ice is in any way an appropriate environment for children that young, both because I doubt they'd be able to do it well enough to have fun, and because of excessive danger. Even with ideal equipment, I highly doubt that a child would be able to swing an ice tool or kick a crampon with enough force and coordination to be able to penetrate the ice sufficiently to create solid tool and foot placement. It's really just a matter of physics. You need a certain amount of power and control to be able to swing tools and feet. 7 year olds just won't have it. You also have to add in the additional issues of temperature and moisture management that are more pronounced in ice climbing than in other winter sports. Between those two, you have a child who likely won't be able to climb much, and may be miserable. That's not even addressing the issues with safety. Ice is not at all the same environment as rock. The objective dangers in ice are far greater than rock, both in terms of severity and likelihood of occurrence. I am all for kids getting their hands dirty and playing rough in the outdoors, but I sincerely think that this is way too much. If you decide to pursue this further, contact a reputable guiding service and ask their opinion. I suspect they will have similar feelings on the subject. +1. Do not expect me to apologize if I send off a chunk of ice and it hits your precious child. Ice climbing is inherently more hazardous than rock climbing, even in the most controlled environment.
+2. Ice Climbing is serious business... You are cold, you sweat, are colder again, get hit by ice, get the screaming barfies in both hands multiple times - and this is on a good day!
Or are you just talking about glacier trekking and easy mountaineering? That is more adapted to children, IF there is someone in the group that knows what he is doing.
(And you could start by getting size adjustable crampons that fit on any mountain boot, and a single classic glacier ice axe - if you are so intent on spending money on gear)
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julio412
Jan 3, 2011, 11:37 PM
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I'm not one to to challenge a parent's thoughts- in general; but I gotta admit I think you're pushing it here.
Unless this kid is some kind of Messner,Haston,( fill in your hero) in the making,I really don't think he/she will have the cognitive skills to appreciate ice,
and will end up being just another ice whacker you see every weekend.
Beyond that, both Grivel and Petzl make/made tools.
Crampons and boots, you're on your own.
M
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drews256
Jan 4, 2011, 12:41 AM
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Don't underestimate the power of a 7 year old...they are more skilled and coordinated than most people think they are...especially if they have been rock climbing for a while.
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keep_it_real
Jan 4, 2011, 12:51 AM
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You might try a small pair of kids ski boots. Really, any stiff sole boot with some kind of heel bail should do. For crampons, you could probably cut down and shorten the center adjustment bar.
Yes, ice climbing in general probably has more objective dangers than rock climbing however, it's very easy to minimize those dangers mostly by choice of climbing area or the climb in particular. Top roping on some solid low-angle ice without much above (rock, avy, more ice) is probably no more dangerous or maybe even safer than climbing at a crag with rock fall potential above.
Either way, some people have different acceptable levels of risk as well as different ideas of what those risks are and it's up to the individual to decide for themselves. The concern is good though. Be safe.
(This post was edited by keep_it_real on Jan 4, 2011, 1:14 AM)
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rangerrob
Jan 4, 2011, 3:35 AM
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I think we're up to +4 for the this is a bad idea response. for all the above reasons. Falling ice, the cold environment (as opposed to hiking in the cold....climbing means standing still for long periods followed by short bursts of activity), very sharp things being swung by children, and a host of other things. I would not take a child under say 12 or 13 ice climbing. Where that line is drawn is probably a matter of conjecture, but I think most reasonable people would say 7 is too young. This is coming from the biggest ice fan on the east coast.
Besides, children shouldn't be drinking Scotch
RR
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skiclimb
Jan 4, 2011, 3:31 PM
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Trying to explain why this seemed like a good idea to the judge/jury looks like a difficult task to me.
I'm sure there are kids who are athletically capable of ice climbing at age 7. But making sure they are being safe at all times seems incredibly difficult and stressful. Could it be done safely.. probably..would that be fun for anyone involved.. doubt it.
popping yourself in the face with the backend of the tool, bashing your knuckles, scraping a point across your calf..Who hasn't done that? How do you protect them from sloppy tool handling and sharp points when 10 ft up or more? Good for kids?.. naaah
(This post was edited by skiclimb on Jan 4, 2011, 3:37 PM)
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bampoulin
Jan 4, 2011, 6:13 PM
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Thanks again to all who posted with respectful, insightful comments. They helped us have a more thorough discussion at home. We were looking into this and have decided to stick to the rock climbing for now.
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olderic
Jan 4, 2011, 7:00 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: [ +1. Do not expect me to apologize if I send off a chunk of ice and it hits your precious child. Ice climbing is inherently more hazardous than rock climbing, even in the most controlled environment.
Fair enough - as long as you don't expect an apology when the kid sends a chunk at your macho noggin and then spears you with a tool when your ego threatened self is in a daze
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dr_feelgood
Jan 6, 2011, 4:04 AM
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olderic wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: +1. Do not expect me to apologize if I send off a chunk of ice and it hits your precious child. Ice climbing is inherently more hazardous than rock climbing, even in the most controlled environment. Fair enough - as long as you don't expect an apology when the kid sends a chunk at your macho noggin and then spears you with a tool when your ego threatened self is in a daze
I don't expect an apology when anyone kicks ice off. It is part of the game. I sent down a kegerator sized block of ice down today; while no children died as a result, if they had, I would feel neither guilty nor culpable. If you perceive my ego as threatened, that is on you.
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altelis
Jan 6, 2011, 5:27 AM
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dr_feelgood wrote: olderic wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: +1. Do not expect me to apologize if I send off a chunk of ice and it hits your precious child. Ice climbing is inherently more hazardous than rock climbing, even in the most controlled environment. Fair enough - as long as you don't expect an apology when the kid sends a chunk at your macho noggin and then spears you with a tool when your ego threatened self is in a daze I don't expect an apology when anyone kicks ice off. It is part of the game. I sent down a kegerator sized block of ice down today; while no children died as a result, if they had, I would feel neither guilty nor culpable. If you perceive my ego as threatened, that is on you.
I dunno. While I think I would know, in a rational sense, that I wasn't guilty or culpable, I can't imagine at least not FEELING guilty & culpable.
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kiwiprincess
Jan 6, 2011, 6:00 AM
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I don't think you can get kids crampons my dad used to cut steps for us untill we were about 12.
Take her alpine Climbing/trekking, self arresting,snowshoeing and skiing so she'll be great at mountain access later.
I love ice climbing.. but have scars where I have knocked Ice in my face, and I would make sure to be in a group incase of accidents.
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anykineclimb
Jan 6, 2011, 6:27 PM
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you can get some starp on type crampons. thats what my buddy uses for his son. you'll probbaly have to turn the bar around that connects the front and back. doing this brings both ends together and fits a pretty small boot.
speaking of boots, pretty much any winter boot will work for kids that young. you can also look for womens boots as they run smaller
tools- the grivel lil monsters are pretty sweet. they're short and the hands are protected from the ice. The Ouray Ice Park kids college uses cut down ice tools so thats another option I guess...
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lovesclimbing
May 10, 2011, 4:03 PM
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Seems that there are some good saftey points here for takeing a 7 year old out on some m/p grade 5 lines but as a father of 5, 4 of the kids come out rock climbing and ice climbing with age ranging from 5-13 years old I think that aside from people trying to say whats best for your kids need to relize that you will always try to keep them safe, what I have done so far I bought a second hand set of tools, cut the handles down and the picks, I cut off the hammers and I also cut the handles verticaly and bolted them together in order to make it easier for small hands to hold on, I also made pinkee rests. As for where we climb, if the ice is not picked out I take them to very easy WI2 and will cut small steps, late season is by far the best time that I have found to take kids ice climbing, the ice is climbed out in order to give good foot holds and tool placements, genrealy with the sun the temp is quite warm, as well late season around here you find that the climbers who are climbing easier stuff will be starting to look for rock or go skiing so the crags are not as busy. Whem I go out with all 4 of the kids I will bring a friend in order to help out with the mangage all 4 kids, I also have every kidd cary something in and out, even my 5 year old will have a small pack with extra drinks and snacks. Once the kids are on the path in and I finish my pre safty meeting I will take off leaveing them with my partner to bring them in I will run up the climb that we will be doing and set up a top rope so that once the kids get there they can have snacks and get dressed as we go over another site safty meeting and than they can start climbing. Something that I have found very helpful is I will pair the kids up, 13 year old with 5 year old, and 10 year old with 8 year old, and always stay with your partner, when the one pair is not climbing they can explore and play and chip and eat ice or what have you. Key thing is that they need to have fun and not make it just climbing, when your out with your kids its about them and not the climbing.
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mushroom
Sep 4, 2011, 5:20 AM
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My children will have crampons on their feet the day they can walk.
Who recommends talking to a guiding service on rc.com? Really?
Rock is dangerous. Ice is dangerous. Walking out your front door is dangerous. Im not seeing the difference. I've had ridiculous shit nearly kill me in all three. Its all about conditions. Ice at its best is far safer than rock at its worst by a long shot.
Something's gonna get you if you spend enough time in the mountains. Mother Nature always wins. So rejoice! You made danger your calling and you died doing what you loved.
My reply to the OP: youre probably going to need some custom crampons. I would look into getting them climbing in ski boots since you can get crampons on those. The real question is how to outfit em when theyre 8, 9, 10, 11 and so on without spending a fortune. Used gear for the win!
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