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USnavy


Jan 14, 2011, 1:54 AM
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Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes?
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For those unfamiliar, Uni Core technology is used mainly by Beal and a select few other manufacturers. It binds the sheath with the core which eliminates sheath slippage and eliminates the independent core and sheath pattern found with conventional dynamic ropes.

Well big wall climbing ropes seem like they would benefit most from this technology where the second is using a toothed ascender to climb a pitch.

Watch the following video,

http://bealplanet.com/...master/index-us.html

The video seems to prove that when you are ascending a rope with an ascender, the load is carried almost exclusively by the sheath of the rope. In the video it shows that if the sheath fails while using a toothed ascender, the rope fails and youíre dead. This is extremely scary considering that the number one threat to the second on a big wall route is rope abrasion from the rope running over sharp rock. The video seems to suggest that if you were seconding an aid route and rock started sawing through the rope over a corner, all it would take is some moderate sheath damage and your done for.

This is where the Uni Core technology could come in very useful. With Uni Core it seems as if the rock would have to completely saw through the entire rope before your done for, which would greatly increase your safety margin as a second. However not only does Beal not make a big wall Uni Core rope, they donít even list aid climbing as a practical use for any of their Uni Core ropes.

So that brings me to my question, why not? It seems like Uni Core technology is more practical in big wall ropes than it is in any other application.


wwalt822


Jan 14, 2011, 8:12 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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Have there been any incidents of a static or dynamic rope being cut while jugging? I'm not talking about a fall onto ascenders or any kind of shock loading, just the simple act of jugging.


vegastradguy


Jan 14, 2011, 8:33 AM
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Re: [wwalt822] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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wwalt822 wrote:
Have there been any incidents of a static or dynamic rope being cut while jugging? I'm not talking about a fall onto ascenders or any kind of shock loading, just the simple act of jugging.

none that i know of- ive heard of falling onto ascenders slicing the sheath, the rope being cut over a sharp edge, etc. but the actual jug cutting the sheath? nope.

im intrigued by the unicore idea, im not sure how it works as a dynamic line- although at this point, it looks like its meant for indoor use only, which means its probably low-stretch dynamic line. i'll have to see if i can find Beal @ the show next week and find out more...


(This post was edited by vegastradguy on Jan 14, 2011, 8:36 AM)


patto


Jan 14, 2011, 8:37 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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F#@k me... That sheath loading is scary. Most likely though eventually the bunching up sheath will stop the fall but not something i'd want to rely on.

A gri-gri used for jugging wouldn't have the same issue though.


wwalt822


Jan 14, 2011, 8:46 AM
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Re: [patto] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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Another similar but i guess more relevant question. Are there any incidents of a rope being sawed through due to jugging? Or any rope cutting incidents not caused by a fall, something sharp falling onto the rope, or a gumby at the gunks.


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Jan 14, 2011, 9:12 AM
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Re: [wwalt822] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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wwalt822 wrote:
Another similar but i guess more relevant question. Are there any incidents of a rope being sawed through due to jugging? Or any rope cutting incidents not caused by a fall, something sharp falling onto the rope, or a gumby at the gunks.

I believe the well-known fatal fall by John Harlin II in 1966 in the Alps occurred while jugging. In the early 70s, a friend of mine fell traversing along an overhang. Tied in with a swami, there was not time to delay lest suffocation ensue.

He prusiked 15 ft. or so to regain the overhang. His 11mm rope was cut halfway through by the time he got to the overhang. He could observe it cutting as he moved up. As a result of the incident, he had a religious epiphany and gave up climbing.

r.c


(This post was edited by robdotcalm on Jan 14, 2011, 10:20 AM)


potreroed


Jan 14, 2011, 9:29 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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The moral of the story? Use Beal ropes when you climb big walls.


USnavy


Jan 15, 2011, 3:35 AM
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Re: [patto] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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patto wrote:
Most likely though eventually the bunching up sheath will stop the fall but not something i'd want to rely on.

I wouldent count on it. Watch the video. In the video they have 80 kg just sitting on the rope. When they cut the sheath the mass slides down the rope and the core strands fail one by one until the entire rope fails.

patto wrote:
MA gri-gri used for jugging wouldn't have the same issue though.
Yes it would. The device you are using to jug on is completely irrelevant, I am revering to rope failure from abrasion where the rope could come into contact with a sharp piece of rock. Every time you move while jugging the rope bounces. If the rope is running over anything sharp the constant rubbing of the rope against the rock can eventually cut through the rope.

vegastradguy wrote:
wwalt822 wrote:
Have there been any incidents of a static or dynamic rope being cut while jugging? I'm not talking about a fall onto ascenders or any kind of shock loading, just the simple act of jugging.

but the actual jug cutting the sheath? nope.
I am not talking about the jug cutting the rope, I am talking about the rock cutting the rope from abrasion while jugging. Watch the video and you will see.

wwalt822 wrote:
Have there been any incidents of a static or dynamic rope being cut while jugging?
Yes. I have a rope sitting in my house that was severely damaged from abrasion on an arete from only 30 feet of jugging! I will post pics later.


Partner j_ung


Jan 15, 2011, 7:00 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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I worry about this very issue every time I ascend a rope. I'm no wall climber, so I won't attempt to apply my experience to that, but in years of route setting, FA-ing, rebolting and the odd foray into photography I guess I've jugged more than my fair share of fixed ropes. Under those circumstances it is entirely possible (and not at all difficult) to be smooth enough in your jugging to reduce bounce and rope rub to effectively zero.


majid_sabet


Jan 15, 2011, 9:41 AM
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Re: [vegastradguy] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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vegastradguy wrote:
wwalt822 wrote:
Have there been any incidents of a static or dynamic rope being cut while jugging? I'm not talking about a fall onto ascenders or any kind of shock loading, just the simple act of jugging.

none that i know of- ive heard of falling onto ascenders slicing the sheath, the rope being cut over a sharp edge, etc. but the actual jug cutting the sheath? nope.

im intrigued by the unicore idea, im not sure how it works as a dynamic line- although at this point, it looks like its meant for indoor use only, which means its probably low-stretch dynamic line. i'll have to see if i can find Beal @ the show next week and find out more...

There has been several cases in yosemite where jug cut ropes resulting in fatality.


patto


Jan 15, 2011, 2:46 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
patto wrote:
Most likely though eventually the bunching up sheath will stop the fall but not something i'd want to rely on.

I wouldent count on it. Watch the video. In the video they have 80 kg just sitting on the rope. When they cut the sheath the mass slides down the rope and the core strands fail one by one until the entire rope fails.
It isn't clear to me that the rope fails by having its core cut as opposed to the ascender running off the end. You are likely correct but as I said, it is not clear to me from the video that this is the case.

patto wrote:
A gri-gri used for jugging wouldn't have the same issue though.
USnavy wrote:
Yes it would. The device you are using to jug on is completely irrelevant, I am revering to rope failure from abrasion where the rope could come into contact with a sharp piece of rock. Every time you move while jugging the rope bounces. If the rope is running over anything sharp the constant rubbing of the rope against the rock can eventually cut through the rope.
A gri gri grips the whole rope including the core. Hence my suggestion that this isn't a concern on such a device. (Well abrasion is a concern but the Uni Core won't help that)


(This post was edited by patto on Jan 15, 2011, 3:43 PM)


ptlong2


Jan 15, 2011, 5:58 PM
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patto wrote:
USnavy wrote:
patto wrote:
Most likely though eventually the bunching up sheath will stop the fall but not something i'd want to rely on.

I wouldent count on it. Watch the video. In the video they have 80 kg just sitting on the rope. When they cut the sheath the mass slides down the rope and the core strands fail one by one until the entire rope fails.
It isn't clear to me that the rope fails by having its core cut as opposed to the ascender running off the end. You are likely correct but as I said, it is not clear to me from the video that this is the case.

USnavy is wrong. They completely severed the sheath with a knife and since the rope is not terminated the jug just pulled the sheath off the end of the core. Normally the end of the rope wouldn't just be waving in the wind immediately below your ascender.


majid_sabet wrote:
There has been several cases in yosemite where jug cut ropes resulting in fatality.

Times and places? Details?


USnavy


Jan 15, 2011, 9:04 PM
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Re: [ptlong2] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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ptlong2 wrote:
patto wrote:
USnavy wrote:
patto wrote:
Most likely though eventually the bunching up sheath will stop the fall but not something i'd want to rely on.

I wouldent count on it. Watch the video. In the video they have 80 kg just sitting on the rope. When they cut the sheath the mass slides down the rope and the core strands fail one by one until the entire rope fails.
It isn't clear to me that the rope fails by having its core cut as opposed to the ascender running off the end. You are likely correct but as I said, it is not clear to me from the video that this is the case.

USnavy is wrong. They completely severed the sheath with a knife and since the rope is not terminated the jug just pulled the sheath off the end of the core. Normally the end of the rope wouldn't just be waving in the wind immediately below your ascender.


majid_sabet wrote:
There has been several cases in yosemite where jug cut ropes resulting in fatality.

Times and places? Details?
Watching the video more, it looks like your right. But in either case, having the sheath fail on you while jugging could have some pretty serious consequences. But why don't introduce it into big wall ropes?


(This post was edited by USnavy on Jan 15, 2011, 9:04 PM)


Gmburns2000


Jan 16, 2011, 6:08 AM
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USnavy wrote:
For those unfamiliar, Uni Core technology is used mainly by Beal and a select few other manufacturers. It binds the sheath with the core which eliminates sheath slippage and eliminates the independent core and sheath pattern found with conventional dynamic ropes.

Well big wall climbing ropes seem like they would benefit most from this technology where the second is using a toothed ascender to climb a pitch.

Watch the following video,

http://bealplanet.com/...master/index-us.html

The video seems to prove that when you are ascending a rope with an ascender, the load is carried almost exclusively by the sheath of the rope. In the video it shows that if the sheath fails while using a toothed ascender, the rope fails and youíre dead. This is extremely scary considering that the number one threat to the second on a big wall route is rope abrasion from the rope running over sharp rock. The video seems to suggest that if you were seconding an aid route and rock started sawing through the rope over a corner, all it would take is some moderate sheath damage and your done for.

This is where the Uni Core technology could come in very useful. With Uni Core it seems as if the rock would have to completely saw through the entire rope before your done for, which would greatly increase your safety margin as a second. However not only does Beal not make a big wall Uni Core rope, they donít even list aid climbing as a practical use for any of their Uni Core ropes.

So that brings me to my question, why not? It seems like Uni Core technology is more practical in big wall ropes than it is in any other application.

OK, this is where my n00bness really comes through: how dynamic is this compared to other dynamic ropes?

With regard to stretch, does this new method (method or technology...it seems to be a method to me) make a difference? It seems to me that combining the sheath and core the end result would be stiffer, if that makes sense.

Also curious why it isn't marketed for walls, but since gym-specific ropes tend to be a bit more static, I wonder I wonder if they're simply trying to get this into the marketplace where they'll sell more ropes before making any adjustments to make it suitable for walls. I'm not sure what adjustments would need to made, but maybe there is a chance they've made a product they feel is good for the gym and not yet ready for walls. (shrugs)

thanks for the video.


jt512


Jan 16, 2011, 8:07 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
For those unfamiliar, Uni Core technology is used mainly by Beal and a select few other manufacturers. It binds the sheath with the core which eliminates sheath slippage and eliminates the independent core and sheath pattern found with conventional dynamic ropes.

Well big wall climbing ropes seem like they would benefit most from this technology where the second is using a toothed ascender to climb a pitch.

Watch the following video,

http://bealplanet.com/...master/index-us.html

The video seems to prove that when you are ascending a rope with an ascender, the load is carried almost exclusively by the sheath of the rope. In the video it shows that if the sheath fails while using a toothed ascender, the rope fails and youíre dead. This is extremely scary considering that the number one threat to the second on a big wall route is rope abrasion from the rope running over sharp rock. The video seems to suggest that if you were seconding an aid route and rock started sawing through the rope over a corner, all it would take is some moderate sheath damage and your done for.

This is where the Uni Core technology could come in very useful. With Uni Core it seems as if the rock would have to completely saw through the entire rope before your done for, which would greatly increase your safety margin as a second. However not only does Beal not make a big wall Uni Core rope, they donít even list aid climbing as a practical use for any of their Uni Core ropes.

So that brings me to my question, why not? It seems like Uni Core technology is more practical in big wall ropes than it is in any other application.

OK, this is where my n00bness really comes through: how dynamic is this compared to other dynamic ropes?

Why don't you look that up on the Beal site?

In reply to:
Also curious why it isn't marketed for walls...

Exactly what application do you think a rope called the Wallmaster is marketed for?

Jay


Gmburns2000


Jan 16, 2011, 11:07 AM
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jt512 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
For those unfamiliar, Uni Core technology is used mainly by Beal and a select few other manufacturers. It binds the sheath with the core which eliminates sheath slippage and eliminates the independent core and sheath pattern found with conventional dynamic ropes.

Well big wall climbing ropes seem like they would benefit most from this technology where the second is using a toothed ascender to climb a pitch.

Watch the following video,

http://bealplanet.com/...master/index-us.html

The video seems to prove that when you are ascending a rope with an ascender, the load is carried almost exclusively by the sheath of the rope. In the video it shows that if the sheath fails while using a toothed ascender, the rope fails and youíre dead. This is extremely scary considering that the number one threat to the second on a big wall route is rope abrasion from the rope running over sharp rock. The video seems to suggest that if you were seconding an aid route and rock started sawing through the rope over a corner, all it would take is some moderate sheath damage and your done for.

This is where the Uni Core technology could come in very useful. With Uni Core it seems as if the rock would have to completely saw through the entire rope before your done for, which would greatly increase your safety margin as a second. However not only does Beal not make a big wall Uni Core rope, they donít even list aid climbing as a practical use for any of their Uni Core ropes.

So that brings me to my question, why not? It seems like Uni Core technology is more practical in big wall ropes than it is in any other application.

OK, this is where my n00bness really comes through: how dynamic is this compared to other dynamic ropes?

Why don't you look that up on the Beal site?

In reply to:
Also curious why it isn't marketed for walls...

Exactly what application do you think a rope called the Wallmaster is marketed for?

Jay

I went to the website dipshit.

Maybe I'm misreading it, but it says it is specifically for the climbing wall environment. I dunno, is that a big wall or a gym? Did you go to the website before you replied? I'm assuming you didn't.

Also, couldn't find the elongation % on the site either.

But hey, maybe I'm blind, can't read, and generally really fucking dumb. I'm sure I know where I stand with you.


USnavy


Jan 16, 2011, 3:24 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
For those unfamiliar, Uni Core technology is used mainly by Beal and a select few other manufacturers. It binds the sheath with the core which eliminates sheath slippage and eliminates the independent core and sheath pattern found with conventional dynamic ropes.

Well big wall climbing ropes seem like they would benefit most from this technology where the second is using a toothed ascender to climb a pitch.

Watch the following video,

http://bealplanet.com/...master/index-us.html

The video seems to prove that when you are ascending a rope with an ascender, the load is carried almost exclusively by the sheath of the rope. In the video it shows that if the sheath fails while using a toothed ascender, the rope fails and youíre dead. This is extremely scary considering that the number one threat to the second on a big wall route is rope abrasion from the rope running over sharp rock. The video seems to suggest that if you were seconding an aid route and rock started sawing through the rope over a corner, all it would take is some moderate sheath damage and your done for.

This is where the Uni Core technology could come in very useful. With Uni Core it seems as if the rock would have to completely saw through the entire rope before your done for, which would greatly increase your safety margin as a second. However not only does Beal not make a big wall Uni Core rope, they donít even list aid climbing as a practical use for any of their Uni Core ropes.

So that brings me to my question, why not? It seems like Uni Core technology is more practical in big wall ropes than it is in any other application.

OK, this is where my n00bness really comes through: how dynamic is this compared to other dynamic ropes?

Why don't you look that up on the Beal site?

In reply to:
Also curious why it isn't marketed for walls...

Exactly what application do you think a rope called the Wallmaster is marketed for?

Jay

I went to the website dipshit.

Maybe I'm misreading it, but it says it is specifically for the climbing wall environment. I dunno, is that a big wall or a gym? Did you go to the website before you replied? I'm assuming you didn't.

Also, couldn't find the elongation % on the site either.

But hey, maybe I'm blind, can't read, and generally really fucking dumb. I'm sure I know where I stand with you.

It looks like Beal makes two Uni Core ropes, the Wall Master 10.5mm and Wall School 10.2mm.

Here is the description for the Wall Master, "Designed specifically for the climbing wall environment - the thicker sheath associated with the Uni Core process makes for a tougher rope perfectly adapted to resist wear due to repeated belays and low impact falls. The astonishing Uni Core process permanently binds the sheath to the core of the rope radically decreasing the occurrence of slippage."

Both of their Uni Core ropes explicitly state they are designed for use on indoor climbing walls.

I donít think itís an issue of dynamics; their 10.5mm Uni Core rope has an impact force of 8.4 kN which is appropriate for use as a dynamic rope. Both their Uni Core ropes are CE, EN and UIAA certified as a dynamic rope, they are not low stretch ropes.


binrat


Jan 16, 2011, 4:43 PM
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Mammut Pro Cord, they have been making it for at least three years now, great stuff.
http://www.mammut.ch/en/ropes_reep_procords.html


Gmburns2000


Jan 16, 2011, 5:58 PM
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USnavy wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
For those unfamiliar, Uni Core technology is used mainly by Beal and a select few other manufacturers. It binds the sheath with the core which eliminates sheath slippage and eliminates the independent core and sheath pattern found with conventional dynamic ropes.

Well big wall climbing ropes seem like they would benefit most from this technology where the second is using a toothed ascender to climb a pitch.

Watch the following video,

http://bealplanet.com/...master/index-us.html

The video seems to prove that when you are ascending a rope with an ascender, the load is carried almost exclusively by the sheath of the rope. In the video it shows that if the sheath fails while using a toothed ascender, the rope fails and youíre dead. This is extremely scary considering that the number one threat to the second on a big wall route is rope abrasion from the rope running over sharp rock. The video seems to suggest that if you were seconding an aid route and rock started sawing through the rope over a corner, all it would take is some moderate sheath damage and your done for.

This is where the Uni Core technology could come in very useful. With Uni Core it seems as if the rock would have to completely saw through the entire rope before your done for, which would greatly increase your safety margin as a second. However not only does Beal not make a big wall Uni Core rope, they donít even list aid climbing as a practical use for any of their Uni Core ropes.

So that brings me to my question, why not? It seems like Uni Core technology is more practical in big wall ropes than it is in any other application.

OK, this is where my n00bness really comes through: how dynamic is this compared to other dynamic ropes?

Why don't you look that up on the Beal site?

In reply to:
Also curious why it isn't marketed for walls...

Exactly what application do you think a rope called the Wallmaster is marketed for?

Jay

I went to the website dipshit.

Maybe I'm misreading it, but it says it is specifically for the climbing wall environment. I dunno, is that a big wall or a gym? Did you go to the website before you replied? I'm assuming you didn't.

Also, couldn't find the elongation % on the site either.

But hey, maybe I'm blind, can't read, and generally really fucking dumb. I'm sure I know where I stand with you.

It looks like Beal makes two Uni Core ropes, the Wall Master 10.5mm and Wall School 10.2mm.

Here is the description for the Wall Master, "Designed specifically for the climbing wall environment - the thicker sheath associated with the Uni Core process makes for a tougher rope perfectly adapted to resist wear due to repeated belays and low impact falls. The astonishing Uni Core process permanently binds the sheath to the core of the rope radically decreasing the occurrence of slippage."

Both of their Uni Core ropes explicitly state they are designed for use on indoor climbing walls.

I donít think itís an issue of dynamics; their 10.5mm Uni Core rope has an impact force of 8.4 kN which is appropriate for use as a dynamic rope. Both their Uni Core ropes are CE, EN and UIAA certified as a dynamic rope, they are not low stretch ropes.

thanks. another stupid question: can anyone lay out in layman's terms why 8.4kn is appropriate for a dynamic rope? I always thought what made a dynamic rope was it's ability to stretch and that the kn was more for falls and durability.

Sorry if the question is dumb: the lab is the one place I just don't know much about (i.e. - I suck at physics).


ptlong2


Jan 17, 2011, 12:09 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
I went to the website dipshit.

Maybe I'm misreading it, but it says it is specifically for the climbing wall environment. I dunno, is that a big wall or a gym? Did you go to the website before you replied? I'm assuming you didn't.

Also, couldn't find the elongation % on the site either.

But hey, maybe I'm blind, can't read, and generally really fucking dumb. I'm sure I know where I stand with you.

On the page you linked to above it says "Exclusively for indoor wall climbing".

On that same page there is a link to the specifications (including dynamic elongation).
http://www.bealplanet.com/...p?id=319&lang=us


(This post was edited by ptlong2 on Jan 17, 2011, 12:27 PM)


majid_sabet


Jan 17, 2011, 12:49 PM
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Re: [ptlong2] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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ptlong2 wrote:
patto wrote:
USnavy wrote:
patto wrote:
Most likely though eventually the bunching up sheath will stop the fall but not something i'd want to rely on.

I wouldent count on it. Watch the video. In the video they have 80 kg just sitting on the rope. When they cut the sheath the mass slides down the rope and the core strands fail one by one until the entire rope fails.
It isn't clear to me that the rope fails by having its core cut as opposed to the ascender running off the end. You are likely correct but as I said, it is not clear to me from the video that this is the case.

USnavy is wrong. They completely severed the sheath with a knife and since the rope is not terminated the jug just pulled the sheath off the end of the core. Normally the end of the rope wouldn't just be waving in the wind immediately below your ascender.


majid_sabet wrote:
There has been several cases in yosemite where jug cut ropes resulting in fatality.

Times and places? Details?

I can't give you much detail about yosemite case since there was a fatality involved but climber fell on jumar and rope was cut in half. Also, there was a fatality on Zion few years back where climber was on haul line and his petzl protraxion cam failed causing him to fall 15 feet on jumar and rope was cut in half. the detail of Zion accident was posted here and on ST.


majid_sabet


Jan 17, 2011, 12:51 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
For those unfamiliar, Uni Core technology is used mainly by Beal and a select few other manufacturers. It binds the sheath with the core which eliminates sheath slippage and eliminates the independent core and sheath pattern found with conventional dynamic ropes.

Well big wall climbing ropes seem like they would benefit most from this technology where the second is using a toothed ascender to climb a pitch.

Watch the following video,

http://bealplanet.com/...master/index-us.html

The video seems to prove that when you are ascending a rope with an ascender, the load is carried almost exclusively by the sheath of the rope. In the video it shows that if the sheath fails while using a toothed ascender, the rope fails and youíre dead. This is extremely scary considering that the number one threat to the second on a big wall route is rope abrasion from the rope running over sharp rock. The video seems to suggest that if you were seconding an aid route and rock started sawing through the rope over a corner, all it would take is some moderate sheath damage and your done for.

This is where the Uni Core technology could come in very useful. With Uni Core it seems as if the rock would have to completely saw through the entire rope before your done for, which would greatly increase your safety margin as a second. However not only does Beal not make a big wall Uni Core rope, they donít even list aid climbing as a practical use for any of their Uni Core ropes.

So that brings me to my question, why not? It seems like Uni Core technology is more practical in big wall ropes than it is in any other application.

OK, this is where my n00bness really comes through: how dynamic is this compared to other dynamic ropes?

Why don't you look that up on the Beal site?

In reply to:
Also curious why it isn't marketed for walls...

Exactly what application do you think a rope called the Wallmaster is marketed for?

Jay

I went to the website dipshit.

Maybe I'm misreading it, but it says it is specifically for the climbing wall environment. I dunno, is that a big wall or a gym? Did you go to the website before you replied? I'm assuming you didn't.

Also, couldn't find the elongation % on the site either.

But hey, maybe I'm blind, can't read, and generally really fucking dumb. I'm sure I know where I stand with you.

It looks like Beal makes two Uni Core ropes, the Wall Master 10.5mm and Wall School 10.2mm.

Here is the description for the Wall Master, "Designed specifically for the climbing wall environment - the thicker sheath associated with the Uni Core process makes for a tougher rope perfectly adapted to resist wear due to repeated belays and low impact falls. The astonishing Uni Core process permanently binds the sheath to the core of the rope radically decreasing the occurrence of slippage."

Both of their Uni Core ropes explicitly state they are designed for use on indoor climbing walls.

I donít think itís an issue of dynamics; their 10.5mm Uni Core rope has an impact force of 8.4 kN which is appropriate for use as a dynamic rope. Both their Uni Core ropes are CE, EN and UIAA certified as a dynamic rope, they are not low stretch ropes.

thanks. another stupid question: can anyone lay out in layman's terms why 8.4kn is appropriate for a dynamic rope? I always thought what made a dynamic rope was it's ability to stretch and that the kn was more for falls and durability.

Sorry if the question is dumb: the lab is the one place I just don't know much about (i.e. - I suck at physics).

I think it has to do with how much human body can take.


USnavy


Jan 17, 2011, 1:52 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
For those unfamiliar, Uni Core technology is used mainly by Beal and a select few other manufacturers. It binds the sheath with the core which eliminates sheath slippage and eliminates the independent core and sheath pattern found with conventional dynamic ropes.

Well big wall climbing ropes seem like they would benefit most from this technology where the second is using a toothed ascender to climb a pitch.

Watch the following video,

http://bealplanet.com/...master/index-us.html

The video seems to prove that when you are ascending a rope with an ascender, the load is carried almost exclusively by the sheath of the rope. In the video it shows that if the sheath fails while using a toothed ascender, the rope fails and youíre dead. This is extremely scary considering that the number one threat to the second on a big wall route is rope abrasion from the rope running over sharp rock. The video seems to suggest that if you were seconding an aid route and rock started sawing through the rope over a corner, all it would take is some moderate sheath damage and your done for.

This is where the Uni Core technology could come in very useful. With Uni Core it seems as if the rock would have to completely saw through the entire rope before your done for, which would greatly increase your safety margin as a second. However not only does Beal not make a big wall Uni Core rope, they donít even list aid climbing as a practical use for any of their Uni Core ropes.

So that brings me to my question, why not? It seems like Uni Core technology is more practical in big wall ropes than it is in any other application.

OK, this is where my n00bness really comes through: how dynamic is this compared to other dynamic ropes?

Why don't you look that up on the Beal site?

In reply to:
Also curious why it isn't marketed for walls...

Exactly what application do you think a rope called the Wallmaster is marketed for?

Jay

I went to the website dipshit.

Maybe I'm misreading it, but it says it is specifically for the climbing wall environment. I dunno, is that a big wall or a gym? Did you go to the website before you replied? I'm assuming you didn't.

Also, couldn't find the elongation % on the site either.

But hey, maybe I'm blind, can't read, and generally really fucking dumb. I'm sure I know where I stand with you.

It looks like Beal makes two Uni Core ropes, the Wall Master 10.5mm and Wall School 10.2mm.

Here is the description for the Wall Master, "Designed specifically for the climbing wall environment - the thicker sheath associated with the Uni Core process makes for a tougher rope perfectly adapted to resist wear due to repeated belays and low impact falls. The astonishing Uni Core process permanently binds the sheath to the core of the rope radically decreasing the occurrence of slippage."

Both of their Uni Core ropes explicitly state they are designed for use on indoor climbing walls.

I donít think itís an issue of dynamics; their 10.5mm Uni Core rope has an impact force of 8.4 kN which is appropriate for use as a dynamic rope. Both their Uni Core ropes are CE, EN and UIAA certified as a dynamic rope, they are not low stretch ropes.

thanks. another stupid question: can anyone lay out in layman's terms why 8.4kn is appropriate for a dynamic rope? I always thought what made a dynamic rope was it's ability to stretch and that the kn was more for falls and durability.

Sorry if the question is dumb: the lab is the one place I just don't know much about (i.e. - I suck at physics).

I think it has to do with how much human body can take.

Your mom knows all about how much the human body can take.


shoo


Jan 17, 2011, 2:09 PM
Post #24 of 53 (5844 views)
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Re: [USnavy] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
USnavy wrote:

Based on the collection of quoted people above and not at all on what was actually written, I declare this the best thread ever on RC.com.


Gmburns2000


Jan 17, 2011, 2:38 PM
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Re: [ptlong2] Using Uni Core technology in big wall ropes? [In reply to]
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ptlong2 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
I went to the website dipshit.

Maybe I'm misreading it, but it says it is specifically for the climbing wall environment. I dunno, is that a big wall or a gym? Did you go to the website before you replied? I'm assuming you didn't.

Also, couldn't find the elongation % on the site either.

But hey, maybe I'm blind, can't read, and generally really fucking dumb. I'm sure I know where I stand with you.

On the page you linked to above it says "Exclusively for indoor wall climbing".

On that same page there is a link to the specifications (including dynamic elongation).
http://www.bealplanet.com/...p?id=319&lang=us

ah, thanks for the link. I didn't see that before.

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