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Re: [k.l.k] Why are Ad Hominem Attacks Allowed By Some Users?
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jakedatc


Feb 8, 2011, 1:19 PM
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     Re: [k.l.k] Why are Ad Hominem Attacks Allowed By Some Users?
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k.l.k wrote:
Ironically, the BET slums are one of the least ridiculous environments here, largely because they post about nothing but baking, gardening, and pets.

Ironically, the BET group has had more climbing trips, weekends and unofficial gatherings than most other areas on the site. There are groups of 3-5 who regularly climb together a few times a month(or more) in 3 separate parts of the country.

included in the normal chatter there are trip reports, photos, gear reviews, and other climbing discussion. As far as i can tell the member with the least experience is still around 10 years.

since you are not included in the climbing trips, climbing discussion or much else perhaps you should re-read the thread title and OP?


Arrogant_Bastard


Feb 8, 2011, 1:22 PM
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jakedatc wrote:
k.l.k wrote:
Ironically, the BET slums are one of the least ridiculous environments here, largely because they post about nothing but baking, gardening, and pets.

Ironically, the BET group has had more climbing trips, weekends and unofficial gatherings than most other areas on the site. There are groups of 3-5 who regularly climb together a few times a month(or more) in 3 separate parts of the country.

We also have Epoch, just to show we're not elitists.


meatbomz


Feb 8, 2011, 1:33 PM
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jakedatc wrote:
k.l.k wrote:
Ironically, the BET slums are one of the least ridiculous environments here, largely because they post about nothing but baking, gardening, and pets.

Ironically, the BET group has had more climbing trips, weekends and unofficial gatherings than most other areas on the site. There are groups of 3-5 who regularly climb together a few times a month(or more) in 3 separate parts of the country.

included in the normal chatter there are trip reports, photos, gear reviews, and other climbing discussion. As far as i can tell the member with the least experience is still around 10 years.

since you are not included in the climbing trips, climbing discussion or much else perhaps you should re-read the thread title and OP?

I think k.l.k. is one of Jack's cronies who comes in from time to time and yanks our chain. IIRC he also knows alot about music and camhead sucks his cock when he talks about the history of the mandolin in the music of the mississipi delta and shit like that.


blondgecko
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Feb 8, 2011, 1:58 PM
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     Re: [jakedatc] Why are Ad Hominem Attacks Allowed By Some Users? [In reply to]
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jakedatc wrote:
k.l.k wrote:
Ironically, the BET slums are one of the least ridiculous environments here, largely because they post about nothing but baking, gardening, and pets.

Ironically, the BET group has had more climbing trips, weekends and unofficial gatherings than most other areas on the site. There are groups of 3-5 who regularly climb together a few times a month(or more) in 3 separate parts of the country.

included in the normal chatter there are trip reports, photos, gear reviews, and other climbing discussion. As far as i can tell the member with the least experience is still around 10 years.

since you are not included in the climbing trips, climbing discussion or much else perhaps you should re-read the thread title and OP?

Don't you think this is just a little... selfish? Exactly the sort of content that would otherwise attract people to the site and encourage them to post their own stories. The stuff that actually builds a community - and, incidentally, brings in the traffic to pay for the site that you're making free use of - and you hide it away in a thread that is deliberately made as uninviting and closed to outsiders as you can possibly make it.

That there's more climbing content and community in the BET thread than elsewhere on the site is not something for the BET crew to be proud of - IMHO it's something they should be ashamed of.


Arrogant_Bastard


Feb 8, 2011, 2:16 PM
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blondgecko wrote:
That there's more climbing content and community in the BET thread than elsewhere on the site is not something for the BET crew to be proud of - IMHO it's something they should be ashamed of.

He was just responding to lamentations that we don't climb and there's nothing but nonsense in the BET. We discuss climbing in a constant jumbled stream of climbing, nonsense, PTFTW, gardens, swinger's lifestyles, and pictures of cats covered in misspelled words. It works just fine for us. You can't fault us because we don't feel like typing up trip reports.


(This post was edited by Arrogant_Bastard on Feb 8, 2011, 2:16 PM)


Arrogant_Bastard


Feb 8, 2011, 2:17 PM
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caughtinside


Feb 8, 2011, 2:17 PM
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     Re: [blondgecko] Why are Ad Hominem Attacks Allowed By Some Users? [In reply to]
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blondgecko wrote:

That there's more climbing content and community in the BET thread than elsewhere on the site is not something for the BET crew to be proud of - IMHO it's something they should be ashamed of.

That's pretty funny. The truth is, all the climbing chatter is mixed in with the rest of the stuff. WHat's the alternative? Post a bunch of trip reports? I did that for a while, it's kind of fun, but at the end of the day it's mostly just spray. I'd rather just spray my buddies down and talk a little smack.

The BET is really just a chat room, and I prefer that format over the split forums. The model for those forums seems to be to ask a question and get a million responses, and then a couple guys wank about who is right and who is rong. Who cares? sez I.

And the whole point of the BET being semi- exclusive is so that it doesn't become like the rest of the site-- a million voices drowning each other out with idiocy. I prefer the idiocy of those I know. We don't need poster ratings, or star ratings or a search function, because you basically know the other posters, so there isn't the same choss to sift through.

The BET was born kind of because the rest of the site was going to shit in that there was just so much bad information being posted so often, that it became comical! It still is. You can log onto this site and read some insane stuff. If you have a certain sense of humor, it will make you laff. So you joke about it a bit with your friends.

That brand of humor ain't for everyone, and that's fine. There is a largely serious, humorless site out there called mountainproject, which is a great site and I use it quite a bit. This site is difficult to take seriously, because there is just so much stupid shit that gets posted.

Also... I think that often posters have a life cycle on sites. I don't think this site is very informative any more, because I've read probably 97% of any possible topics already. It is all going to be repetition at this point. If it wasn't for the big fun in the BET, I'd be long gone, because there's just not much for me ont he rest of the site, because it's geared to beginner Q&A questions, or the rare disagreement about belaying. Maybe that's why cracklover's friends bailed, because there was no new meaningful content. but, if they're only going to PM him, and not either contribute something worthwhile, or at least complain to a mod who could potentially but won't do something, I guess they don't get a vote.


jakedatc


Feb 8, 2011, 2:24 PM
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     Re: [blondgecko] Why are Ad Hominem Attacks Allowed By Some Users? [In reply to]
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blondgecko wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
k.l.k wrote:
Ironically, the BET slums are one of the least ridiculous environments here, largely because they post about nothing but baking, gardening, and pets.

Ironically, the BET group has had more climbing trips, weekends and unofficial gatherings than most other areas on the site. There are groups of 3-5 who regularly climb together a few times a month(or more) in 3 separate parts of the country.

included in the normal chatter there are trip reports, photos, gear reviews, and other climbing discussion. As far as i can tell the member with the least experience is still around 10 years.

since you are not included in the climbing trips, climbing discussion or much else perhaps you should re-read the thread title and OP?

Don't you think this is just a little... selfish? Exactly the sort of content that would otherwise attract people to the site and encourage them to post their own stories. The stuff that actually builds a community - and, incidentally, brings in the traffic to pay for the site that you're making free use of - and you hide it away in a thread that is deliberately made as uninviting and closed to outsiders as you can possibly make it.

That there's more climbing content and community in the BET thread than elsewhere on the site is not something for the BET crew to be proud of - IMHO it's something they should be ashamed of.

Perhaps, but it is not jumbled with "what shoe should I get", "I climbed 5.11c my first day how Rad am I??" "Stealth Rubber is so much better than Sportiva!" etc.

Think of it as a highly self moderated forum. The other forums could be moderated this way with post removals but it would be labor intensive for the mods. For one thread it is easy enough to do.

rap bolting this one and see that i've been GU'd a bit.. but editing is weker than rap bolting so... here we go.


jakedatc


Feb 8, 2011, 2:31 PM
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     Re: [caughtinside] Why are Ad Hominem Attacks Allowed By Some Users? [In reply to]
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caughtinside wrote:
blondgecko wrote:

That there's more climbing content and community in the BET thread than elsewhere on the site is not something for the BET crew to be proud of - IMHO it's something they should be ashamed of.

That's pretty funny. The truth is, all the climbing chatter is mixed in with the rest of the stuff. WHat's the alternative? Post a bunch of trip reports? I did that for a while, it's kind of fun, but at the end of the day it's mostly just spray. I'd rather just spray my buddies down and talk a little smack.

The BET is really just a chat room, and I prefer that format over the split forums. The model for those forums seems to be to ask a question and get a million responses, and then a couple guys wank about who is right and who is rong. Who cares? sez I.

And the whole point of the BET being semi- exclusive is so that it doesn't become like the rest of the site-- a million voices drowning each other out with idiocy. I prefer the idiocy of those I know. We don't need poster ratings, or star ratings or a search function, because you basically know the other posters, so there isn't the same choss to sift through.

The BET was born kind of because the rest of the site was going to shit in that there was just so much bad information being posted so often, that it became comical! It still is. You can log onto this site and read some insane stuff. If you have a certain sense of humor, it will make you laff. So you joke about it a bit with your friends.

That brand of humor ain't for everyone, and that's fine. There is a largely serious, humorless site out there called mountainproject, which is a great site and I use it quite a bit. This site is difficult to take seriously, because there is just so much stupid shit that gets posted.

Also... I think that often posters have a life cycle on sites. I don't think this site is very informative any more, because I've read probably 97% of any possible topics already. It is all going to be repetition at this point. If it wasn't for the big fun in the BET, I'd be long gone, because there's just not much for me ont he rest of the site, because it's geared to beginner Q&A questions, or the rare disagreement about belaying. Maybe that's why cracklover's friends bailed, because there was no new meaningful content. but, if they're only going to PM him, and not either contribute something worthwhile, or at least complain to a mod who could potentially but won't do something, I guess they don't get a vote.

+1 I've been here for coming up on 8 years. I had read just about all the shoe, gear, belaying, bolts, trad vs sport, threads there is in about a year. I quickly joined the Mass Climbers thread which was basically the original BET thread with a slightly different vibe but basically the same principle. That has since mostly died out due to many of the members moving away so I found other locals in the BET.


blondgecko
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Feb 8, 2011, 4:11 PM
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jakedatc wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
blondgecko wrote:

That there's more climbing content and community in the BET thread than elsewhere on the site is not something for the BET crew to be proud of - IMHO it's something they should be ashamed of.

That's pretty funny. The truth is, all the climbing chatter is mixed in with the rest of the stuff. WHat's the alternative? Post a bunch of trip reports? I did that for a while, it's kind of fun, but at the end of the day it's mostly just spray. I'd rather just spray my buddies down and talk a little smack.

The BET is really just a chat room, and I prefer that format over the split forums. The model for those forums seems to be to ask a question and get a million responses, and then a couple guys wank about who is right and who is rong. Who cares? sez I.

And the whole point of the BET being semi- exclusive is so that it doesn't become like the rest of the site-- a million voices drowning each other out with idiocy. I prefer the idiocy of those I know. We don't need poster ratings, or star ratings or a search function, because you basically know the other posters, so there isn't the same choss to sift through.

The BET was born kind of because the rest of the site was going to shit in that there was just so much bad information being posted so often, that it became comical! It still is. You can log onto this site and read some insane stuff. If you have a certain sense of humor, it will make you laff. So you joke about it a bit with your friends.

That brand of humor ain't for everyone, and that's fine. There is a largely serious, humorless site out there called mountainproject, which is a great site and I use it quite a bit. This site is difficult to take seriously, because there is just so much stupid shit that gets posted.

Also... I think that often posters have a life cycle on sites. I don't think this site is very informative any more, because I've read probably 97% of any possible topics already. It is all going to be repetition at this point. If it wasn't for the big fun in the BET, I'd be long gone, because there's just not much for me ont he rest of the site, because it's geared to beginner Q&A questions, or the rare disagreement about belaying. Maybe that's why cracklover's friends bailed, because there was no new meaningful content. but, if they're only going to PM him, and not either contribute something worthwhile, or at least complain to a mod who could potentially but won't do something, I guess they don't get a vote.

+1 I've been here for coming up on 8 years. I had read just about all the shoe, gear, belaying, bolts, trad vs sport, threads there is in about a year. I quickly joined the Mass Climbers thread which was basically the original BET thread with a slightly different vibe but basically the same principle. That has since mostly died out due to many of the members moving away so I found other locals in the BET.

This is all well and good, but what of the other side of the social contract. You're using, for free, a resource that costs money and time to run. If it doesn't bring in enough revenue to pay server fees plus a bit of profit for the owners, it just... goes away.

Now, there are only four real revenue models available to a site like this. First is paid membership. Second is voluntary donation. Third is merchandising. Fourth is advertising. The first three are a bit of a catch-22: in order for them to be profitable, there already has to be a strong community in place. And let's face it, the total pool of people to be interested in a rockclimbing community is really pretty small compared to, say, gaming or lolcats. Advertising has the advantage that it requires no monetary contribution from the regulars who (should) form the backbone of the community.

But that's not to say it requires no contribution of any kind. Thing is, advertisers are not interested in users like you or me - site regulars who come back every day, and have long since learned to tune out the ads. We're of no value to them. What they're interested in is unique hits - new people coming in, new to the topic, and more likely to be in need of new gear and hence click on ads.

And what brings the new users in? New, interesting content. And who's the best at providing new, interesting (to n00bs) content? The established users.

There is no doubt that the BET threads represent a net monetary drain on the forum that supports them. Now, I'm not saying you have to do much - but would it be too much to ask that, just occasionally, you start a new thread about something climbing-related? Even if it's something you no longer find particularly interesting, there are plenty of others who will.

Basically, as long as there's something on this site that's important enough to you to keep you coming back, you're neglecting your side of the bargain if you don't contribute to the wider community that ultimately supports it. That's all I'm saying.




P.S. I know some of you do contribute outside the BET threads with some reasonable regularity. I'm not pointing at you. But there are others who keep essentially all their posting confined to those threads - and that's a real waste.


drivel


Feb 8, 2011, 4:21 PM
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Two comments-

A) I wrote a very popular thread for a while here that I'm pretty sure had a lot of unique hits, but after a while it was wasn't worth it to me to write anymore, because I got relatively few responses for how long I spent writing the trip reports. Thousands of pageviews on that thread, and maybe 4 or 5 responses to each trip report that took me a few hours to write and edit.

ii) once upon a time, I was given free shoes (Free shooz!) to review. I wrote a gear review that was highly informative and, I think, pretty entertaining, duly submitted and the then-gear guy *never bothered to publish it*


Arrogant_Bastard


Feb 8, 2011, 4:30 PM
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blondgecko wrote:
And what brings the new users in? New, interesting content. And who's the best at providing new, interesting (to n00bs) content? The established users.

Bullshit.

New, interesting content only interests a small minority of veteran websurfers. It's the same faces that have been here since the usernet days, with a few 'newbies' added in since. Take a look at the quantity of threads about shoes, ropes, which knot to tie ropes together, and I've been climbing X months, I just climbed 5.YYy in my gym, how long till I can climb 5.ZZzzzzz... Same damn questions over and over. People are too lazy to use the search box in the upper right, they're far too lazy to read a couple pages of educational discourse.


spikeddem


Feb 8, 2011, 4:45 PM
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote:
blondgecko wrote:
And what brings the new users in? New, interesting content. And who's the best at providing new, interesting (to n00bs) content? The established users.

Bullshit.

New, interesting content only interests a small minority of veteran websurfers. It's the same faces that have been here since the usernet days, with a few 'newbies' added in since. Take a look at the quantity of threads about shoes, ropes, which knot to tie ropes together, and I've been climbing X months, I just climbed 5.YYy in my gym, how long till I can climb 5.ZZzzzzz... Same damn questions over and over. People are too lazy to use the search box in the upper right, they're far too lazy to read a couple pages of educational discourse.

I agree. I feel like unique visitors come more from beginners that just walked out of the gym for their first time than those that are visiting from external climbing sites cuz they heard of some new content on RC. Mayyyyyyyybe when Aric did the Alien cam pulling, I suppose that kind of stuff happened.

Some fancy, interactive tool (more than a text-based FAQ in the forum) would probably keep noobs here a bit. Some kind of flash application.

Now I'm actually kind of curious. If RC.com wasn't "rockclimbing.com" would it be financially viable? I mean, MP.com is ranked by Alexa as #73,071 most viewed website vs RC.com at #59681. Of key interest here is that RC.com is the #1 search result for "rock climbing" whereas MP.com doesn't even make google's first 10 pages of results!

Supertopo is around #110,000. They're on like the 7th page of results or something. I have to imagine that MP.com's route database is what makes it such a popular website--despite the unlikelihood that a beginner would ever first stumble upon that site first by searching google.

Edit: I had to scroll to the very bottom of the front page to find this "New climbers: check out our introduction: rock climbing basics! " I'd think this would be a little more heavily emphasized.


(This post was edited by spikeddem on Feb 8, 2011, 4:49 PM)

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