Forums: Climbing Information: Accident and Incident Analysis:
Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Accident and Incident Analysis

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All


csproul


Feb 14, 2011, 8:56 AM
Post #1 of 56 (6449 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1764

Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

This weekend, myself and several others witnessed a pretty long fall that resulted in a climber hitting the ground. I was climbing Foreign Trade Zone while a party of two was toproping some variation of Bat Out of Hell (really I think they were just off route).

One of these two young men had reached the top of their climb while I was about half way up mine. I heard a whoosh and a loud thump and looked down to see the climber yell and bounce off the ground.

I had my belayer lower me and we sent a couple people up the trail to call 911 and notify the Park Ranger. Meanwhile, the climber's partner, myself and a couple others (tried to) kept him still and tied a shirt to a small cut on the back of his head. He was alert, not obviously injured and otherwise seemed ok (no loss of feeling, no clearly broken bones, no excessive bleeding, pupils looked normal...). Rangers and EMS arrived fairly quickly and checked him out. He was up and walking around pretty fast, refused treatment and seemed completely ok, and the two actually kept climbing.

His apparent lack of injury was pretty amazing to me. He had fallen from the top of the route, which I'd estimate at ~40 ft. and landed on his back/ass. His belayer had taken him off belay, assuming he was going to rap, when he was, in fact, expecting to be lowered.

Their anchor was obviously constructed in a manner that created a lot of rope drag with the rope going over a large ledge at the top. Ultimately, I think this actually saved his ass. Because of the friction, when he began falling, he fell pretty slowly until he was 20-25 feet off the ground. He really only got up speed for the last 20 feet or so. The poorly constructed anchor actually slowed down at least half of his fall.


david7896


Feb 14, 2011, 10:09 AM
Post #2 of 56 (6366 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 29, 2010
Posts: 41

Re: [csproul] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

wow that guys is very lucky. just another story of communication failure. i hope they learn from it.


milesenoell


Feb 14, 2011, 11:10 AM
Post #3 of 56 (6294 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [csproul] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I hope that if I ever blow it big I'm even half as lucky as this guy. Here's to being young and lucky!

That said, calling this accident preventable is an understatement. Hand lowering himself until he felt tension from the belay would have kept that guy from decking, plain and simple.

Edit: for clarity


(This post was edited by milesenoell on Feb 14, 2011, 11:11 AM)


wwalt822


Feb 14, 2011, 12:40 PM
Post #4 of 56 (6232 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2010
Posts: 116

Re: [milesenoell] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

milesenoell wrote:
That said, calling this accident preventable is an understatement. Hand lowering himself until he felt tension from the belay would have kept that guy from decking, plain and simple.
Edit: for clarity

Or like you know if the belayer didn't take him off belay until he calls off belay.


csproul


Feb 14, 2011, 12:49 PM
Post #5 of 56 (6221 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1764

Re: [milesenoell] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

milesenoell wrote:
I hope that if I ever blow it big I'm even half as lucky as this guy. Here's to being young and lucky!

That said, calling this accident preventable is an understatement. Hand lowering himself until he felt tension from the belay would have kept that guy from decking, plain and simple.

Edit: for clarity
I think he actually may have done this (he said he did). The high friction on the anchor, however, made him think that his belayer was holding him when it was really just the friction in their system that was holding him.


bearbreeder


Feb 14, 2011, 12:50 PM
Post #6 of 56 (6216 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 1, 2009
Posts: 1960

Re: [csproul] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

i wouldnt climb again with that belayer after that ... amazing they did more climbs ... Tongue


milesenoell


Feb 14, 2011, 1:34 PM
Post #7 of 56 (6172 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [csproul] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Perhaps my assertion was misplaced. I had just intended to stress that the person getting dropped has a role in this that is often overlooked. It's easy to blame this on the failure of the belayer, but I see it as a mutual failure.


byran


Feb 14, 2011, 6:57 PM
Post #8 of 56 (6110 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 6, 2006
Posts: 266

Re: [milesenoell] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I've had a sort of related experience once before. I was climbing with someone who wasn't from the States so the typical climbing lingo got a bit mixed up. I clipped into the anchors and yelled "take" in order to be lowered. He heard it as "safe" and took me off belay. Luckily I had several things working in my favor, like - I clearly heard him yell up "off belay", I was standing on a nice big ledge and could easily clip into the anchors, and it was obvious that there was no tension on the rope. So accident avoided, no harm done.

But in that situation there were a number of factors which led to the confusion. I was 80 ft up, out of sight from my belayer, there was a rushing river nearby, and we were two climbers from different countries who had never climbed together before. I'm really struggling to imagine how this sort of thing happens on a 40ft climb without there being some serious carelessness in part by the climber AND belayer.


reaeper


Feb 14, 2011, 7:00 PM
Post #9 of 56 (6103 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 9, 2010
Posts: 25

Re: [csproul] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Damn, miscommunication always seems to be the problem in these cases... Anyway, at least he is okay, yet another reason to make sure both the climber and belayer are on the same terms.


socalclimber


Feb 14, 2011, 7:30 PM
Post #10 of 56 (6071 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 2424

Re: [csproul] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Uh.... Wow! I really have to question the intelligence of the two to continue climbing after that. Probably would have been a good idea to go home for the day. Severe injuries don't always manifest themselves right away.

Case in point:

About 4 years ago one of my best friends, and looooong time climbing partner was up in Mammoth snow boarding on a Thursday. He took a small jump, and landed hard and banged his head. He said he was a little out of it at first, but brushed it off and kept on for the day. Friday he drove down to my place and arrived in the early evening. As we normally do, we had big fire that night and went to bed. Saturday 6:30 am, I'm up making coffee in the house, all of a sudden I hear another friend start yelling "ROBERT ROBERT COME QUICK! STEVE'S HAVING A SEIZURE!".

Out the door I fly. Sure enough, he's on the ground. Full Gran Mall. I roll him on his side and after a minute or so he's starting to come out of it. Next thing I know he's up and standing, hands out in front of him yelling "OW OW OW IT HURTS! WHAT'S HAPPENING? MAKE IT STOP!". For the next 20 minutes while we waited for EMS to arrive he was combative and stumbling around without a clue as to where he was and what had happened. The best we could do was to keep him from hurting himself. Finally he came back to some semblance of reality and EMS arrived and took care of the rest.

I knew this was no "normal" seizure. Turns out he had a slow bleed in his brain from the snow boarding incident.

I still see him quite often, and talk almost everyday, but he isn't the same. Memory loss is a big one. All in all he's still Steve, but there are definite differences.

Think Mechanism Of Injury (MOI). Don't just slough off things like this just because you can get up on your own.


Vegasclimber10


Feb 14, 2011, 7:47 PM
Post #11 of 56 (6056 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 23, 2010
Posts: 188

Re: [socalclimber] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Good point, thanks for bringing that up.


healyje


Feb 15, 2011, 3:33 AM
Post #12 of 56 (5969 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4196

Re: [socalclimber] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

Blowing it off is why Natasha Richardson died after a skiing fall.


socalclimber


Feb 15, 2011, 3:47 AM
Post #13 of 56 (5957 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 2424

Re: [healyje] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

healyje wrote:
Blowing it off is why Natasha Richardson died after a skiing fall.

Now that you mention it, that's true. I had forgotten about that one.


wwalt822


Feb 15, 2011, 7:58 AM
Post #14 of 56 (5890 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2010
Posts: 116

Re: [milesenoell] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

milesenoell wrote:
Perhaps my assertion was misplaced. I had just intended to stress that the person getting dropped has a role in this that is often overlooked. It's easy to blame this on the failure of the belayer, but I see it as a mutual failure.

it is 100% the belayers fault if the following conditions are true.

Climber and belayer knew eachother's communcation system (no language barrier etc)

Climber didn't call off belay

Belayer didn't announce belay off.


jt512


Feb 15, 2011, 8:07 AM
Post #15 of 56 (5882 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21887

Re: [wwalt822] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

wwalt822 wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Perhaps my assertion was misplaced. I had just intended to stress that the person getting dropped has a role in this that is often overlooked. It's easy to blame this on the failure of the belayer, but I see it as a mutual failure.

it is 100% the belayers fault if the following conditions are true.

Climber and belayer knew eachother's communcation system (no language barrier etc)

Climber didn't call off belay

Belayer didn't announce belay off.

The climber should still ensure he is on belay before weighting the rope, so I don't see how this could be 100% the belayer's fault. In fact, I consider it to be nearly 100% the climber's fault. I don't know why the belayer took him off, but the climber should have been aware of it.

Jay


csproul


Feb 15, 2011, 8:11 AM
Post #16 of 56 (5878 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1764

Re: [wwalt822] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

wwalt822 wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Perhaps my assertion was misplaced. I had just intended to stress that the person getting dropped has a role in this that is often overlooked. It's easy to blame this on the failure of the belayer, but I see it as a mutual failure.

it is 100% the belayers fault if the following conditions are true.

Climber and belayer knew eachother's communcation system (no language barrier etc)

Climber didn't call off belay

Belayer didn't announce belay off.
The first two are true, but the last one is not, and I don't agree with the last statement. If the climber didn't ask to be taken off belay, the belayer shouldn't take (or call) him off belay. Period*. The belayer did call him off belay, when he never should have. Due to wind and being around a corner, the climber never heard him. But the bottom line was that the climber should have never been "off belay", called or not.

*the only exception I can think of is when climbing multipitch and the leader is out of rope and out of communication. In that case I will take them off belay and start climbing.


wwalt822


Feb 15, 2011, 8:33 AM
Post #17 of 56 (5855 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2010
Posts: 116

Re: [jt512] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
wwalt822 wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Perhaps my assertion was misplaced. I had just intended to stress that the person getting dropped has a role in this that is often overlooked. It's easy to blame this on the failure of the belayer, but I see it as a mutual failure.

it is 100% the belayers fault if the following conditions are true.

Climber and belayer knew eachother's communcation system (no language barrier etc)

Climber didn't call off belay

Belayer didn't announce belay off.

The climber should still ensure he is on belay before weighting the rope, so I don't see how this could be 100% the belayer's fault. In fact, I consider it to be nearly 100% the climber's fault. I don't know why the belayer took him off, but the climber should have been aware of it.

Jay

So if I take you off belay when you don't call for it and don't make sure you hear me, then you fall and die, its nearly 100% your fault?


jt512


Feb 15, 2011, 8:34 AM
Post #18 of 56 (5852 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21887

Re: [wwalt822] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

wwalt822 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
wwalt822 wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Perhaps my assertion was misplaced. I had just intended to stress that the person getting dropped has a role in this that is often overlooked. It's easy to blame this on the failure of the belayer, but I see it as a mutual failure.

it is 100% the belayers fault if the following conditions are true.

Climber and belayer knew eachother's communcation system (no language barrier etc)

Climber didn't call off belay

Belayer didn't announce belay off.

The climber should still ensure he is on belay before weighting the rope, so I don't see how this could be 100% the belayer's fault. In fact, I consider it to be nearly 100% the climber's fault. I don't know why the belayer took him off, but the climber should have been aware of it.

Jay

So if I take you off belay when you don't call for it and don't make sure you hear me, then you fall and die, its nearly 100% your fault?

Yes.

Jay


csproul


Feb 15, 2011, 9:19 AM
Post #19 of 56 (5811 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1764

Re: [jt512] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
wwalt822 wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Perhaps my assertion was misplaced. I had just intended to stress that the person getting dropped has a role in this that is often overlooked. It's easy to blame this on the failure of the belayer, but I see it as a mutual failure.

it is 100% the belayers fault if the following conditions are true.

Climber and belayer knew eachother's communcation system (no language barrier etc)

Climber didn't call off belay

Belayer didn't announce belay off.

The climber should still ensure he is on belay before weighting the rope, so I don't see how this could be 100% the belayer's fault. In fact, I consider it to be nearly 100% the climber's fault. I don't know why the belayer took him off, but the climber should have been aware of it.

Jay
I agree that it is on the climber to ensure that he/she is safe, but I still think this was mostly the belayers fault. There is no reason he should have taken the climber off belay. If the climber is telling the truth, he stated that he did hold the belayers side of the rope and felt there was tension on the rope before leaning back to be lowered. Because he was around a corner and over a ledge, and they had a lot of rope drag, the climber felt the tension and mistook it for a belay. Especially since there was poor communication, the climber should have remained on belay. I certainly have an expectation that my belayer will keep me on belay until I ask to be taken off belay.


csproul


Feb 15, 2011, 9:22 AM
Post #20 of 56 (5808 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1764

Re: [jt512] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
wwalt822 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
wwalt822 wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Perhaps my assertion was misplaced. I had just intended to stress that the person getting dropped has a role in this that is often overlooked. It's easy to blame this on the failure of the belayer, but I see it as a mutual failure.

it is 100% the belayers fault if the following conditions are true.

Climber and belayer knew eachother's communcation system (no language barrier etc)

Climber didn't call off belay

Belayer didn't announce belay off.

The climber should still ensure he is on belay before weighting the rope, so I don't see how this could be 100% the belayer's fault. In fact, I consider it to be nearly 100% the climber's fault. I don't know why the belayer took him off, but the climber should have been aware of it.

Jay

So if I take you off belay when you don't call for it and don't make sure you hear me, then you fall and die, its nearly 100% your fault?

Yes.

Jay
That's bullshit. As far as the belayer is/was concerned, the climber could have just as well fallen while climbing as fallen while lowering. I have an expectation that my belayer will catch me when I fall, and will not take me off belay until I request it (with the exception noted above).


jt512


Feb 15, 2011, 9:45 AM
Post #21 of 56 (5781 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21887

Re: [csproul] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

csproul wrote:
jt512 wrote:
wwalt822 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
wwalt822 wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Perhaps my assertion was misplaced. I had just intended to stress that the person getting dropped has a role in this that is often overlooked. It's easy to blame this on the failure of the belayer, but I see it as a mutual failure.

it is 100% the belayers fault if the following conditions are true.

Climber and belayer knew eachother's communcation system (no language barrier etc)

Climber didn't call off belay

Belayer didn't announce belay off.

The climber should still ensure he is on belay before weighting the rope, so I don't see how this could be 100% the belayer's fault. In fact, I consider it to be nearly 100% the climber's fault. I don't know why the belayer took him off, but the climber should have been aware of it.

Jay

So if I take you off belay when you don't call for it and don't make sure you hear me, then you fall and die, its nearly 100% your fault?

Yes.

Jay
That's bullshit. As far as the belayer is/was concerned, the climber could have just as well fallen while climbing as fallen while lowering.

Context, please. We are not talking about a belayer taking his partner off belay in the middle of a climb.

Jay


jt512


Feb 15, 2011, 9:56 AM
Post #22 of 56 (5768 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21887

Re: [csproul] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

csproul wrote:
jt512 wrote:
wwalt822 wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Perhaps my assertion was misplaced. I had just intended to stress that the person getting dropped has a role in this that is often overlooked. It's easy to blame this on the failure of the belayer, but I see it as a mutual failure.

it is 100% the belayers fault if the following conditions are true.

Climber and belayer knew eachother's communcation system (no language barrier etc)

Climber didn't call off belay

Belayer didn't announce belay off.

The climber should still ensure he is on belay before weighting the rope, so I don't see how this could be 100% the belayer's fault. In fact, I consider it to be nearly 100% the climber's fault. I don't know why the belayer took him off, but the climber should have been aware of it.

Jay
I agree that it is on the climber to ensure that he/she is safe, but I still think this was mostly the belayers fault. There is no reason he should have taken the climber off belay. If the climber is telling the truth, he stated that he did hold the belayers side of the rope and felt there was tension on the rope before leaning back to be lowered. Because he was around a corner and over a ledge, and they had a lot of rope drag, the climber felt the tension and mistook it for a belay.

Because he was around a corner and over a ledge, and had a lot of rope drag, the climber should have been even more cautious than usual in ensuring that he was on belay before committing to the rope. Can you imagine yourself in that situation thinking "I can't see or hear my belayer, he can't see or hear me, and there's a lot of rope drag, so it's hard to tell whether I'm on belay or not, so I guess I'll just lean back and hope for the best"?

In reply to:
Especially since there was poor communication, the climber should have remained on belay. I certainly have an expectation that my belayer will keep me on belay until I ask to be taken off belay.

I have that expectation as well, but I never just assume it's true, and under difficult circumstances, as we have in this case, I'd be even more cautious than usual.

Jay


byran


Feb 15, 2011, 10:10 AM
Post #23 of 56 (5751 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 6, 2006
Posts: 266

Re: [csproul] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Even if the belayer was 100% responsible for dropping the climber (which I doubt is the case here), the climber is still 100% responsible for choosing to be belayed by someone who is an inexperienced noob/irresponsible idiot.


csproul


Feb 15, 2011, 10:37 AM
Post #24 of 56 (5737 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1764

Re: [byran] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I can see where you and Jay are coming from and I agree that we all bear our own responsibility for choosing qualified and trusted belayers. So in that respect, the climber bears some/much responsibility. But in my mind it is still a greater violation of basic principles to take someone off of belay that does not request it. This should just be a basic practice.


csproul


Feb 15, 2011, 10:44 AM
Post #25 of 56 (5728 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1764

Re: [jt512] Ground fall at Pilot Mountain, NC [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
csproul wrote:
jt512 wrote:
wwalt822 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
wwalt822 wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Perhaps my assertion was misplaced. I had just intended to stress that the person getting dropped has a role in this that is often overlooked. It's easy to blame this on the failure of the belayer, but I see it as a mutual failure.

it is 100% the belayers fault if the following conditions are true.

Climber and belayer knew eachother's communcation system (no language barrier etc)

Climber didn't call off belay

Belayer didn't announce belay off.

The climber should still ensure he is on belay before weighting the rope, so I don't see how this could be 100% the belayer's fault. In fact, I consider it to be nearly 100% the climber's fault. I don't know why the belayer took him off, but the climber should have been aware of it.

Jay

So if I take you off belay when you don't call for it and don't make sure you hear me, then you fall and die, its nearly 100% your fault?

Yes.

Jay
That's bullshit. As far as the belayer is/was concerned, the climber could have just as well fallen while climbing as fallen while lowering.

Context, please. We are not talking about a belayer taking his partner off belay in the middle of a climb.

Jay
The belayer couldn't see the climber, nor had good communications with the climber. Therefore, the belayer could not see if the climber was still climbing or at the anchor. So really, as far as the belayer knew, he may as well have taken the climber off belay in the middle of the climb.

On your other points, I can agree, but I'd still be pretty mad at my belayer. After that initial reaction, hopefully I'd eventually come to understand my own responsibility for the accident.

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : Accident and Incident Analysis

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook