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To buy used aliens or not to buy used aliens, that is the question
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Poll: To buy used aliens or not to buy used aliens, that is the question
Buy them now 5 / 18%
Wait and see 4 / 14%
Aliens?!?! Are you fucking kidding me? Yer gonna die. 19 / 68%
28 total votes
 

esander4


Feb 17, 2011, 8:30 PM
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To buy used aliens or not to buy used aliens, that is the question
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So I'm in the stage of my trad career where I want to buy some more aliens, but as everyone knows they're hard to come by. So should I buy them now or wait until more comes out on a CCH buyout for new aliens? I'm a little worried that aliens made by another company won't be quite the same as what CCH made, and I also don't want to wait too long to get them. What is everyone's opinion? To wait or not to wait?


vegastradguy


Feb 17, 2011, 8:55 PM
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Registered: Aug 28, 2002
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Re: [esander4] To buy used aliens or not to buy used aliens, that is the question [In reply to]
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oh, i dunno- i'd vote wait and see for a few months. if nothing comes of the rumors circulating around the industry by say...june or so, see if you can find yourself some used aliens and rig up cracklover's test on them.

or, go ahead and buy some and test 'em...


esander4


Feb 17, 2011, 9:03 PM
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What are the rumors? I've been a little out of the loop on who's doing what. First I heard MadRock, then I heard no for MadRock but maybe DMM, then I heard no for DMM and it keeps going...


moose_droppings


Feb 17, 2011, 9:46 PM
Post #4 of 16 (5903 views)
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Registered: Jun 7, 2005
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Re: [esander4] To buy used aliens or not to buy used aliens, that is the question [In reply to]
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esander4 wrote:
So I'm in the stage of my trad career where I want to buy some more aliens, but as everyone knows they're hard to come by. So should I buy them now or wait until more comes out on a CCH buyout for new aliens? I'm a little worried that aliens made by another company won't be quite the same as what CCH made, and I also don't want to wait too long to get them. What is everyone's opinion? To wait or not to wait?

I sold all my Aliens years ago and have never looked back.

I'd think that buying one now would be nothing less then a crap shoot. Considering the numerous inconsistencies in quality, my bet would be all the tried and true ones would be the least likely to be up for sale.

Hold off for a while if you can.


vegastradguy


Feb 17, 2011, 11:41 PM
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esander4 wrote:
What are the rumors? I've been a little out of the loop on who's doing what. First I heard MadRock, then I heard no for MadRock but maybe DMM, then I heard no for DMM and it keeps going...

well, id respond, but my 1 star vote for my previous post tells me my information is better delivered elsewhere....












nah, im just fucking with you. i cant say anything anyway, i'm being all cryptic and shit- you'll just have to put your ear to the ground and see if you can rummage up the rumor i heard. its bound to be loose around somewhere...


johnwesely


Feb 18, 2011, 4:16 AM
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Re: [vegastradguy] To buy used aliens or not to buy used aliens, that is the question [In reply to]
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vegastradguy wrote:
esander4 wrote:
What are the rumors? I've been a little out of the loop on who's doing what. First I heard MadRock, then I heard no for MadRock but maybe DMM, then I heard no for DMM and it keeps going...

well, id respond, but my 1 star vote for my previous post tells me my information is better delivered elsewhere....












nah, im just fucking with you. i cant say anything anyway, i'm being all cryptic and shit- you'll just have to put your ear to the ground and see if you can rummage up the rumor i heard. its bound to be loose around somewhere...

You must just love this.


Partner j_ung


Feb 18, 2011, 5:19 AM
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
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Oh, he does. Trust me.


MS1


Feb 18, 2011, 6:52 AM
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Registered: Feb 24, 2009
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vegastradguy wrote:
oh, i dunno- i'd vote wait and see for a few months. if nothing comes of the rumors circulating around the industry by say...june or so, see if you can find yourself some used aliens and rig up cracklover's test on them.

or, go ahead and buy some and test 'em...

Nobody likes a tease.


mattm


Feb 18, 2011, 7:13 AM
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Registered: May 20, 2003
Posts: 640

Re: [esander4] To buy used aliens or not to buy used aliens, that is the question [In reply to]
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esander4 wrote:
So I'm in the stage of my trad career where I want to buy some more aliens, but as everyone knows they're hard to come by. So should I buy them now or wait until more comes out on a CCH buyout for new aliens? I'm a little worried that aliens made by another company won't be quite the same as what CCH made, and I also don't want to wait too long to get them. What is everyone's opinion? To wait or not to wait?

So here's my deal, take it for what's it's worth. It's a long response but a lot of thought has gone into it over time.

I have 1 full set of hybrids and 1 full set blue-red reg aliens (with 2x on green and red). They were all purchased PRE the major issues, I think 2004 or before on the date stamps but I'd have to double check. I even sent them back to get "tensile tested" by CCH (not worth much if you ask me). Even during the issues, I had confidence in mine at first because mine were pre-issue dates, and purchased in a small shop that was one of those sources when aliens were hard to find (ie good source, pre- mass produced REI). As more and more issues came up, it finally put a chink in my confidence in them, not enough for me to get rid of them but JUST enough for me to maybe not place them in a mission critical spot, which I used to do a lot. It sucks because they DO rock but personal responsibility (wife, kid etc etc) starts to override your love of the GREEN. You know?

As replacements started to come out (Master Cams) I bought in and used my C3s more. Life changes also reduced (drastically) the amount of Trad I get to do. This combo means right now I haven't put enough mileage into my Master Cams to have a full review on them ready BUT here's my initial impression. They're CLOSE to the aliens, maybe 95% as good - BUT they're 100% confidence inspiring (it's METOLIUS!) which makes up and then some for the last 5%. The last 5% by the way, is how metolius sizes their cams and the cam angle. It just doesn't seem as well distributed size wise as Aliens (The Green, Grey and Red were all AWESOME size ranges)

So right now my rack is C3s with an Orange TCU and Master Cams (Reg and Offset) up to .4 or .5 C4 size range. (old Red or Grey Alien Size). Then it's C4s .75 on up.

I've got ONE of the new Totem Cams to test out. I got the smallest one (Blue) because it's size range is damn near the same as the Green Alien. I'll do a full write up on it when I get some mileage on it since I think there aren't enough GOOD reviews out there (Pullharder has the only really good one that seems to jive with what I've seen so far - Don't Think Vegas has done one yet...)
Short Short Review: If you can look past the cost (many can't for many reasons) they're impressive. Not a 1 for 1 alien replacement but they have other benefits. The thing that keeps them from being a 1 for 1 replacement is "bulk" near the stem/head termination. Aliens have a slightly smaller stem/head area where the cam wires attach to the top trigger "bar". The Totems are larger there since all the wires pass through a larger "wire router bar". I'll get pics in my review. This will cause the Totems to not fit as weil in really pinched down pin scars (and the reason aliens are the aid climbers wet dream STILL) My initial impressions of the Blue Totem had me order the yellow, red and green - Yep, I was impressed.

OK, but we still have that other lingering question. What about the CCH REPLACEMENT rumors? First, I don't think Vegastrad is being a jerk at all. He's gone as far as he can on the boards to let people know "Hey, something is out there in the winds". He get's paid now and his "news" loyalty is to them first. He's straight up about it too. All good in my mind. My take on the rumors is there's got to be SOMETHING out there. Too many companies out there and too much passionate love of aliens to NOT try and make them again. Who is the big mystery. Hell, it could be any number of companies. Camp, WC, DMM even Mad Rock I guess. When? Probably no sooner than the Fall if not later. For us not to have heard ANYTHING at the trade shows means the item wasn't available to vendors to order which means at least fall in my mind. That's AT LEAST a season of climbing. I also figure the new ones will price out at at least $60.

So for me, I didn't NEED any small cams. I was just looking for options/improvements. My $$ situation leaves me with some flexibility. If NEW spot on Aliens come out, I can drop $300 next year ('12) on blue-red. Not great but it won't kill me. Others may differ. In fact, I'll probably put aside $20 a month just in case...

The only reason I'd buy OLD aliens now is if you have an upcoming wall project this season. If you don't have a SPECIFIC, PRESSING need this season, I think there are options out there now or in the future that make more sense.

You want something new this season? Get some Totems.
Don't want Totems? Get some Mastercams
Don't NEED anything and have a budget? Wait.


vegastradguy


Feb 18, 2011, 8:41 AM
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Re: [mattm] To buy used aliens or not to buy used aliens, that is the question [In reply to]
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fwiw, all gear that debuts in August at Outdoor Retailer is usually available in March of the following year.

All gear that debuts in January at Outdoor Retailer is usually available in September of the same year.


boadman


Feb 18, 2011, 9:19 AM
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Registered: Oct 6, 2003
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If a new alien-buster does finally come out, the price for used aliens will drop drastically. Right now they're selling for more than the totem cams, pretty regularly. I'd wait.


Partner j_ung


Feb 19, 2011, 6:17 AM
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
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Re: [mattm] To buy used aliens or not to buy used aliens, that is the question [In reply to]
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mattm wrote:
You want something new this season? Get some Totems.

I'm pretty psyched on Totem Cams. They had me at flexible.


boadman


May 27, 2011, 8:35 AM
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vegastradguy wrote:
oh, i dunno- i'd vote wait and see for a few months. if nothing comes of the rumors circulating around the industry by say...june or so, see if you can find yourself some used aliens and rig up cracklover's test on them.

or, go ahead and buy some and test 'em...

Ok, it's June, basically. Spill your rumor beans.


billcoe_


May 27, 2011, 9:16 AM
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Re: [boadman] To buy used aliens or not to buy used aliens, that is the question [In reply to]
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Really good thread.
My full review is here: http://cascadeclimbers.com/..._APOLOGY#Post1012182 Make sure you read to the bottom of the page wherein I apologies for my earlier whining.
Matt has it good in his post upthread with one exception. The Blue Totem isn't a direct cross to a green Alien. To my chagrin I found this out about a week ago on the crux of Serenity Crack:-) It's a smidge bigger.

I have 8 Totems and the more I climb with them the more I like them. This has been happening with everyone I know who climbs on them. They start out with reservations and in the end the Totems become the "Go To" pieces. All my early reservations have been swept away. Amazingly nice cam. I have not had them on Limestone (I did get to clip bolt on limestone last month and there were no placements) but on Granite, Sandstone and Basalt they have been top performers. Great range, very solid holding power.

Price. Do not expect some miracle cam to come out that will lower the price of used Aliens. The Totems are for sale in the Yosemite Mt shop for $85 each and that won't be putting any pressure on the used Aliens. Even if someone were to revive the Alien, both Doug Phillips of Metolius and Malcom at Trango said that the Aliens were a very costly cam to produce. Malcom even got a cost from their overseas cam maker and the cost was too high even to mfg it in China and import it. He posted that on RC.com I believe, you can search for the exact details.


Khoi


Jun 12, 2011, 12:07 AM
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boadman wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
oh, i dunno- i'd vote wait and see for a few months. if nothing comes of the rumors circulating around the industry by say...june or so, see if you can find yourself some used aliens and rig up cracklover's test on them.

or, go ahead and buy some and test 'em...

Ok, it's June, basically. Spill your rumor beans.

Yeah, we're almost midway through June!


healyje


Jun 12, 2011, 2:20 AM
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Re: [Khoi] To buy used aliens or not to buy used aliens, that is the question [In reply to]
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Is the supposition that Mad Rock making Aliens would somehow up my confidence in them?

(Ex-owner of two sets of hybrids)


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