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lofstromc


Feb 19, 2011, 8:44 AM
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Alternatives to Ibuprofen
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I hurt a finger bouldering at the gym - again - and was doing the old standard procedure of icing it and taking advil. About a week into the daily advil doses, I developed some nasty bruises all over my body. The doc said it was from the advil and the nature of my work (physical, outdoor, all-weather).
A friend of mine mentioned fish oil. My friend is very knowledgeable in many body related things, but tends to lean towards new age type alternatives. Maybe she's right, but I don't know.
Are there alternatives to advil? I know it works, but don't really like the bruises all over my body.
Thanks


(This post was edited by lofstromc on Feb 19, 2011, 8:46 AM)


camhead


Feb 19, 2011, 8:52 AM
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Re: [lofstromc] Alternatives to Ibuprofen [In reply to]
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There are other prescription NSAIDs that are similar to Ibuprofen, but are intended to be easier on your stomach lining (ulcers are one of ibuprofen's main side effects). I really like Celebrex, although it is pretty pricey if you don't have a good drug plan.

I am not sure if any of these alternate NSAIDs would be the solution to your bruising. I've actually never heard of bruising as an effect of Ibu.


viciado


Feb 19, 2011, 9:25 AM
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Re: [lofstromc] Alternatives to Ibuprofen [In reply to]
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I don't know if there are alternatives that will help you in the long run, but as Camhead has said, there are several nsaids on the market.

FWIW, when I messed up my ring finger, my doctor told me that, unless I was really suffering from the pain, after three days I should try to reduce or even avoid using Ibuprofen. He said that for the first few days, the anti-inflammatorty affect was beneficial, but he felt it was outweighed after that by the interference with the healing process (you'll have to ask your doc about the mechanisms). YMMV


jt512


Feb 19, 2011, 10:20 AM
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camhead wrote:
There are other prescription NSAIDs that are similar to Ibuprofen, but are intended to be easier on your stomach lining (ulcers are one of ibuprofen's main side effects). I really like Celebrex, although it is pretty pricey if you don't have a good drug plan.

I am not sure if any of these alternate NSAIDs would be the solution to your bruising. I've actually never heard of bruising as an effect of Ibu.

He shouldn't be taking any NSAIDs for a tendon or ligament injury. NSAIDs interfere with healing of connective tissues. For pain, he could try Tylenol.

Oops. Kinda GUed there. Oh well, reinforcement.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Feb 19, 2011, 10:20 AM)


camhead


Feb 19, 2011, 10:26 AM
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jt512 wrote:
camhead wrote:
There are other prescription NSAIDs that are similar to Ibuprofen, but are intended to be easier on your stomach lining (ulcers are one of ibuprofen's main side effects). I really like Celebrex, although it is pretty pricey if you don't have a good drug plan.

I am not sure if any of these alternate NSAIDs would be the solution to your bruising. I've actually never heard of bruising as an effect of Ibu.

He shouldn't be taking any NSAIDs for a tendon or ligament injury. NSAIDs interfere with healing of connective tissues. For pain, he could try Tylenol.

Oops. Kinda GUed there. Oh well, reinforcement.

Jay


Shit, I kind of passed over how he mentioned it was for a specific injury; you're right. I down the NSAIDS for chronic back problems.


Just a note about Tylenol (acetaminophen), however: it's much worse (and easier) to overdose on it than it is to OD on nsaids or aspirin. The difference between an effective dose of tylenol and "too much" is fairly small. And, damage from an OD of it can be irreparable liver damage, rather than, say, ulcers.


Lbrombach


Feb 19, 2011, 10:28 AM
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Re: [lofstromc] Alternatives to Ibuprofen [In reply to]
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Hmm.. I've never heard of Ibu causing bruising...I'd much sooner expect that from aspirin (Another NSAID). Naproxen Sodium is another NSAID available over the counter... I have read research snippets supporting that fish oil has anti inflammatory properties...don't remember the details..

I'd be pretty concerned by the bruising... I'd push my doc to explore and rule out the possibility of having developed liver problems or some other sort of clotting disorder.


lofstromc


Feb 19, 2011, 10:49 AM
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I had blood tests, they all came back normal.
From what I can tell, the bruising isn't common, but it can happen with some people.


lofstromc


Feb 19, 2011, 11:16 AM
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Any tips on how to speed the healing process? I'm dying to get back out.


cmiller12


Feb 19, 2011, 11:21 AM
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You could try tylenol. It's a completely different chemical compound than Ibuprofin and works differently in your body, so I would think it wouldn't cause the bruising.


jt512


Feb 19, 2011, 11:59 AM
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lofstromc wrote:
Any tips on how to speed the healing process? I'm dying to get back out.

I don't think you can speed the healing process. You just have to give your body time.

Jay


theskibumjohnson


Feb 19, 2011, 12:34 PM
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Re: [lofstromc] Alternatives to Ibuprofen [In reply to]
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lofstromc wrote:
I hurt a finger bouldering at the gym - again - and was doing the old standard procedure of icing it and taking advil. About a week into the daily advil doses, I developed some nasty bruises all over my body. The doc said it was from the advil and the nature of my work (physical, outdoor, all-weather).
A friend of mine mentioned fish oil. My friend is very knowledgeable in many body related things, but tends to lean towards new age type alternatives. Maybe she's right, but I don't know.

Are there alternatives to advil? I know it works, but don't really like the bruises all over my body.
Thanks

Tylenol is for fevers
Ibuprofen is anti inflammatory
Naproxen (aleve) is the same thing but last longer
aspirin is for heart attacks and blood thinning

Take them with food or meals and the ulcers will be avoided.

It takes tendons and ligaments much longer to heal than other parts of your body, ice for the first few days keeps the inflammation down then heat after that to get blood to the area for the healing. Rest is the best thing, it always helps to eat healthy
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sbaclimber


Feb 19, 2011, 1:28 PM
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May I ask what exactly you did to your finger that would require taking advil for a week straight!?
Thankfully, I have had relatively few and minor fingure injuries during my years of climbing. Those that I have had, have required taping, icing and rest.....not taking advil for an extended period of time.
Just curious...
Unfortunately, I don't have any additional advice to give, other than that which has already been given by others, 'rest you finger'!


(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Feb 19, 2011, 1:29 PM)


jt512


Feb 19, 2011, 1:34 PM
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theskibumjohnson wrote:
lofstromc wrote:
I hurt a finger bouldering at the gym - again - and was doing the old standard procedure of icing it and taking advil. About a week into the daily advil doses, I developed some nasty bruises all over my body. The doc said it was from the advil and the nature of my work (physical, outdoor, all-weather).
A friend of mine mentioned fish oil. My friend is very knowledgeable in many body related things, but tends to lean towards new age type alternatives. Maybe she's right, but I don't know.

Are there alternatives to advil? I know it works, but don't really like the bruises all over my body.
Thanks

Tylenol is for fevers
Ibuprofen is anti inflammatory
Naproxen (aleve) is the same thing but last longer
aspirin is for heart attacks and blood thinning

You saved this for your fourth post in two years?

Jay


milesenoell


Feb 19, 2011, 1:56 PM
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Jay is right on the money here. After the initial period of injury you want to help the tendons get blood flow, so anti inflammatory meds are counter productive. (tendons don't have great blood supplies so they heal slowly, and you don't want to exacerbate the problem.) Acetaminophen is an option for pain, but what you really need is rest to give your body a chance to heal.

It sucks, but you just have to take it easy on your finger.


theskibumjohnson


Feb 19, 2011, 4:28 PM
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Re: [jt512] Alternatives to Ibuprofen [In reply to]
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you sure it is not my third post? Luck number three. Don't tell anyone it is my fourth post, let's keep it between you and me. Pretend it is my third post and no one will know. I appreciate your discrepancy, Thank you


cmiller12


Feb 20, 2011, 1:19 AM
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milesenoell wrote:
Jay is right on the money here. After the initial period of injury you want to help the tendons get blood flow, so anti inflammatory meds are counter productive. (tendons don't have great blood supplies so they heal slowly, and you don't want to exacerbate the problem.) Acetaminophen is an option for pain, but what you really need is rest to give your body a chance to heal.

Well, inflammation is really only good for you if you have some sort of infection, since it increases flow of immune cells, ie white blood cells to the area and actually acts to restrict blood flow out of it (that's why the area gets swollen), which isn't necessarily good for healing tendons. Just an fyi. If you want to increase blood flow, stick with the hot compress like someone said earlier.


gblauer
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Feb 20, 2011, 6:37 AM
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Re: [camhead] Alternatives to Ibuprofen [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
I really like Celebrex, although it is pretty pricey if you don't have a good drug plan.

Isn't celebrex associated with sudden heart failure? Do you worry about that? Do you take it regularly? (I ask because I am in pain all the time [arthritis in feet and now hands] and I would like to take something when I climb)


camhead


Feb 20, 2011, 7:16 AM
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gblauer wrote:
camhead wrote:
I really like Celebrex, although it is pretty pricey if you don't have a good drug plan.

Isn't celebrex associated with sudden heart failure? Do you worry about that? Do you take it regularly? (I ask because I am in pain all the time [arthritis in feet and now hands] and I would like to take something when I climb)

I haven't heard that, and have had pretty lengthy conversations about it with both my rheumatologist and a pharmacist friend of mine.

Could you be thinking of Vioxx? That was pulled from the market for some heart failure, but statistically it was VERY low risk. Most physicians I know think it should not have been pulled, since it was a great NSAID for older patients with weaker stomach linings.


onceahardman


Feb 20, 2011, 7:22 AM
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cmiller12 wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Jay is right on the money here. After the initial period of injury you want to help the tendons get blood flow, so anti inflammatory meds are counter productive. (tendons don't have great blood supplies so they heal slowly, and you don't want to exacerbate the problem.) Acetaminophen is an option for pain, but what you really need is rest to give your body a chance to heal.

Well, inflammation is really only good for you if you have some sort of infection, since it increases flow of immune cells, ie white blood cells to the area and actually acts to restrict blood flow out of it (that's why the area gets swollen), which isn't necessarily good for healing tendons. Just an fyi. If you want to increase blood flow, stick with the hot compress like someone said earlier.

I don't think that is entirely accurate.

Inflammation increases swelling because various inflammatory chemicals cause cell membranes to become "leaky", spilling their intracellular fluid into interstitial spaces. In addition to being a chemical signal to send immune cells to the area, repair cells, ie fibroblasts, are also sent to the area to lay down scar tissue to begin the restoration of function.

No inflammation = no scar tissue formation = poor healing.

Good info from jt512 in this thread.


(This post was edited by onceahardman on Feb 20, 2011, 7:23 AM)


jt512


Feb 20, 2011, 10:44 AM
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camhead wrote:
gblauer wrote:
camhead wrote:
I really like Celebrex, although it is pretty pricey if you don't have a good drug plan.

Isn't celebrex associated with sudden heart failure? Do you worry about that? Do you take it regularly? (I ask because I am in pain all the time [arthritis in feet and now hands] and I would like to take something when I climb)

I haven't heard that, and have had pretty lengthy conversations about it with both my rheumatologist and a pharmacist friend of mine.

Could you be thinking of Vioxx? That was pulled from the market for some heart failure, but statistically it was VERY low risk. Most physicians I know think it should not have been pulled, since it was a great NSAID for older patients with weaker stomach linings.

Celbrex and Vioxx increase the risk for heart disease by about the same amount, and it's not statistically small. However, a 2008 meta-analysis of Celebrex trials showed that the magnitude of the risk depends on the dose and the patient's underlying risk for heart disease. The results are depicted in the figure from the paper below.



On the vertical axis patients are divided into three groups based on their underlying risk factors for heart disease: high, moderate, and low risk. And each risk group is further divided by Celebrex dose: 400 mg once per day (400 qd), 200 mg twice per day (200 bid), or 400 mg twice per day (400 bid).

The horizontal axis represents the risk ratio for each group of patients taking Celebrex vs the placebo group. For instance, a hazard ratio of 2.0 for a group of patients taking Celebrex means that patients in that group were twice as likely to develop heart disease as patients in the placebo group. Thus a hazard ratio of 1.0 means no difference in risk. The hazard ratio for each group is represented by a horizontal line with with a black square in the middle. The black square is the point estimate of the hazard ratio and the horizontal line the 95% confidence interval.

As the figure shows, the heart disease risk of subjects with low underlying risk is not increased by taking Celebrex. However, for patients at moderate or high underlying risk, Celebrex increases their risk of heart disease up to three times in a dose- and underlying risk-dependent manner.

Jay

Circulation. 2008 Apr 22;117(16):2104-13. Epub 2008 Mar 31.


(This post was edited by jt512 on Feb 20, 2011, 3:59 PM)
Attachments: celebrex-chd-risk.jpg (25.4 KB)


saint_john


Feb 21, 2011, 7:01 AM
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eat spicy foods to reduce inflammation. smoke marijuana for pain relief.


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