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gripcoach
Mar 15, 2011, 1:05 PM
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I started writing this reply on this forum in several post that ask about grip just to maybe help a little bit. So if you see it in other places, sorry but grip strength can save your life.
Realizing there is many, many questions about grip I felt is might deserve its own thread.
Dear Climbers,
I have to applaud anyone that participates in this sport. There is a lot of BS out there about weight lifting every where you look. The key to weight training for any sport is core training, kinetic chain, and muscle memory. If you do not incorporate weight training in you preparation for any type climbing you are missing out on being the best you can be. As several people have responded, the real strength comes from over all body strength especially the core. Kinetic chining comes into effect every time you use your hands. In extreme sport such as you do, extending the kinetic chin all the way down to the very finger tips is crucial. Muscle memory can only be achieved by making your muscles perform a specific movement over and over again. In your sport all around grip strength is imperative, not to mention life saving. In my opinion, it is down right inexcusable, dangerous, and just plain stupid for you guys and gals out there that climb, not to train your grip specifically. And I mean with weights.
Yours in grip work, The Grip Coach
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mojomonkey
Mar 15, 2011, 1:23 PM
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gripcoach wrote: I started writing this reply on this forum in several post that ask about grip just to maybe help a little bit. So if you see it in other places, sorry but grip strength can save your life. Realizing there is many, many questions about grip I felt is might deserve its own thread. Dear Climbers, I have to applaud anyone that participates in this sport. There is a lot of BS out there about weight lifting every where you look. The key to weight training for any sport is core training, kinetic chain, and muscle memory. If you do not incorporate weight training in you preparation for any type climbing you are missing out on being the best you can be. As several people have responded, the real strength comes from over all body strength especially the core. Kinetic chining comes into effect every time you use your hands. In extreme sport such as you do, extending the kinetic chin all the way down to the very finger tips is crucial. Muscle memory can only be achieved by making your muscles perform a specific movement over and over again. In your sport all around grip strength is imperative, not to mention life saving. In my opinion, it is down right inexcusable, dangerous, and just plain stupid for you guys and gals out there that climb, not to train your grip specifically. And I mean with weights. Yours in grip work, The Grip Coach
I'll go with being dangerous and stupid I guess - training my grip specifically (and I mean with weights) sounds pretty boring.
But perhaps you have a routine that isn't boring - and could save my life - that you are willing to share with me for a small coaching fee?
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 15, 2011, 1:52 PM
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gripcoach wrote: I started writing this reply on this forum in several post that ask about grip just to maybe help a little bit. So if you see it in other places, sorry but grip strength can save your life. Realizing there is many, many questions about grip I felt is might deserve its own thread. Dear Climbers, I have to applaud anyone that participates in this sport. There is a lot of BS out there about weight lifting every where you look. The key to weight training for any sport is core training, kinetic chain, and muscle memory. If you do not incorporate weight training in you preparation for any type climbing you are missing out on being the best you can be. As several people have responded, the real strength comes from over all body strength especially the core. Kinetic chining comes into effect every time you use your hands. In extreme sport such as you do, extending the kinetic chin all the way down to the very finger tips is crucial. Muscle memory can only be achieved by making your muscles perform a specific movement over and over again. In your sport all around grip strength is imperative, not to mention life saving. In my opinion, it is down right inexcusable, dangerous, and just plain stupid for you guys and gals out there that climb, not to train your grip specifically. And I mean with weights. Yours in grip work, The Grip Coach
Years ago the middle of your body was called your midsection, stomach, gut, or maybe abs. Then some fitness marketing wiz started to use the word "core". You know, the engine room of movement. Core. Suddenly, it was everywhere. Core, core, core, core. You didn't work your abs, obliques, external abdominal oblique, or, gawd forbid, your rectus abdominis. I mean it is practically like saying rectum. No, say core. Core,core,clore,core,core.
Gawd I hate that word. You know the only thing that is stupider than "core"?
Muscle memory.
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spikeddem
Mar 15, 2011, 2:09 PM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: gripcoach wrote: I started writing this reply on this forum in several post that ask about grip just to maybe help a little bit. So if you see it in other places, sorry but grip strength can save your life. Realizing there is many, many questions about grip I felt is might deserve its own thread. Dear Climbers, I have to applaud anyone that participates in this sport. There is a lot of BS out there about weight lifting every where you look. The key to weight training for any sport is core training, kinetic chain, and muscle memory. If you do not incorporate weight training in you preparation for any type climbing you are missing out on being the best you can be. As several people have responded, the real strength comes from over all body strength especially the core. Kinetic chining comes into effect every time you use your hands. In extreme sport such as you do, extending the kinetic chin all the way down to the very finger tips is crucial. Muscle memory can only be achieved by making your muscles perform a specific movement over and over again. In your sport all around grip strength is imperative, not to mention life saving. In my opinion, it is down right inexcusable, dangerous, and just plain stupid for you guys and gals out there that climb, not to train your grip specifically. And I mean with weights. Yours in grip work, The Grip Coach Years ago the middle of your body was called your midsection, stomach, gut, or maybe abs. Then some fitness marketing wiz started to use the word "core". You know, the engine room of movement. Core. Suddenly, it was everywhere. Core, core, core, core. You didn't work your abs, obliques, external abdominal oblique, or, gawd forbid, your rectus abdominis. I mean it is practically like saying rectum. No, say core. Core,core,clore,core,core. Gawd I hate that word. You know the only thing that is stupider than "core"? Muscle memory.
Regardless, what's wrong with the term "muscle memory?" Is it not as fancy as "motor learning?"
Edit: That being said, I'm with you that this OP is lame. It's a troll, perhaps by one of the BET meanies; almost certainly by someone that is already a member of this site.
(This post was edited by spikeddem on Mar 15, 2011, 2:12 PM)
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sungam
Mar 15, 2011, 2:20 PM
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gripcoach wrote: I started writing this reply on this forum in several post that ask about grip just to maybe help a little bit. So if you see it in other places, sorry but grip strength can save your life. Realizing there is many, many questions about grip I felt is might deserve its own thread. Dear Climbers, I have to applaud anyone that participates in this sport. There is a lot of BS out there about weight lifting every where you look. The key to weight training for any sport is core training, kinetic chain, and muscle memory. If you do not incorporate weight training in you preparation for any type climbing you are missing out on being the best you can be. As several people have responded, the real strength comes from over all body strength especially the core. Kinetic chining comes into effect every time you use your hands. In extreme sport such as you do, extending the kinetic chin all the way down to the very finger tips is crucial. Muscle memory can only be achieved by making your muscles perform a specific movement over and over again. In your sport all around grip strength is imperative, not to mention life saving. In my opinion, it is down right inexcusable, dangerous, and just plain stupid for you guys and gals out there that climb, not to train your grip specifically. And I mean with weights. Yours in grip work, The Grip Coach
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 15, 2011, 2:27 PM
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spikeddem wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: gripcoach wrote: I started writing this reply on this forum in several post that ask about grip just to maybe help a little bit. So if you see it in other places, sorry but grip strength can save your life. Realizing there is many, many questions about grip I felt is might deserve its own thread. Dear Climbers, I have to applaud anyone that participates in this sport. There is a lot of BS out there about weight lifting every where you look. The key to weight training for any sport is core training, kinetic chain, and muscle memory. If you do not incorporate weight training in you preparation for any type climbing you are missing out on being the best you can be. As several people have responded, the real strength comes from over all body strength especially the core. Kinetic chining comes into effect every time you use your hands. In extreme sport such as you do, extending the kinetic chin all the way down to the very finger tips is crucial. Muscle memory can only be achieved by making your muscles perform a specific movement over and over again. In your sport all around grip strength is imperative, not to mention life saving. In my opinion, it is down right inexcusable, dangerous, and just plain stupid for you guys and gals out there that climb, not to train your grip specifically. And I mean with weights. Yours in grip work, The Grip Coach Years ago the middle of your body was called your midsection, stomach, gut, or maybe abs. Then some fitness marketing wiz started to use the word "core". You know, the engine room of movement. Core. Suddenly, it was everywhere. Core, core, core, core. You didn't work your abs, obliques, external abdominal oblique, or, gawd forbid, your rectus abdominis. I mean it is practically like saying rectum. No, say core. Core,core,clore,core,core. Gawd I hate that word. You know the only thing that is stupider than "core"? Muscle memory. OK, well one's core refers to much more than his or her stomach. That's the exact reason why people say "core" and not "stomach." It encompasses more muscles than you listed. Regardless, what's wrong with the term "muscle memory?" Is it not as fancy as "motor learning?" Edit: That being said, I'm with you that this OP is lame. It's a troll, perhaps by one of the BET meanies; almost certainly by someone that is already a member of this site.
I quoted the OP not to reply, but, well you know why.
I can't stand buzz words. "Core" is no more accurate than midsection, it just sounds sexier.
And simply muscles don't have a memory.
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iknowfear
Mar 15, 2011, 2:50 PM
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gripcoach wrote: I started writing this reply on this forum in several post that ask about grip just to maybe help a little bit. So if you see it in other places, sorry but grip strength can save your life. Realizing there is many, many questions about grip I felt is might deserve its own thread. Dear Climbers, I have to applaud anyone that participates in this sport. There is a lot of BS out there about weight lifting every where you look. The key to weight training for any sport is core training, kinetic chain, and muscle memory. If you do not incorporate weight training in you preparation for any type climbing you are missing out on being the best you can be. As several people have responded, the real strength comes from over all body strength especially the core. Kinetic chining comes into effect every time you use your hands. In extreme sport such as you do, extending the kinetic chin all the way down to the very finger tips is crucial. Muscle memory can only be achieved by making your muscles perform a specific movement over and over again. In your sport all around grip strength is imperative, not to mention life saving. In my opinion, it is down right inexcusable, dangerous, and just plain stupid for you guys and gals out there that climb, not to train your grip specifically. And I mean with weights. Yours in grip work, The Grip Coach
as a friend once said: If you want to climb like a monkey, eat like a monkey!
Oh and for the climbers who think that their weakness is grip strenght - for 95 % its lack of technique and fear of falling.
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billcoe_
Mar 15, 2011, 2:59 PM
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iknowfear wrote: Oh and for the climbers who think that their weakness is grip strenght - for 95 % its lack of technique and fear of falling.
I call bullshit. It's usually all 3 and only for maybe 70% of the folks out there. For the other 30% it's route and area dependent.
For all climbers, grip strength (as it relates to your body weight) is one of the more needed of the tools in the bag we should have.
Monkeys send. That is all.
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spikeddem
Mar 15, 2011, 3:57 PM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: spikeddem wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: gripcoach wrote: I started writing this reply on this forum in several post that ask about grip just to maybe help a little bit. So if you see it in other places, sorry but grip strength can save your life. Realizing there is many, many questions about grip I felt is might deserve its own thread. Dear Climbers, I have to applaud anyone that participates in this sport. There is a lot of BS out there about weight lifting every where you look. The key to weight training for any sport is core training, kinetic chain, and muscle memory. If you do not incorporate weight training in you preparation for any type climbing you are missing out on being the best you can be. As several people have responded, the real strength comes from over all body strength especially the core. Kinetic chining comes into effect every time you use your hands. In extreme sport such as you do, extending the kinetic chin all the way down to the very finger tips is crucial. Muscle memory can only be achieved by making your muscles perform a specific movement over and over again. In your sport all around grip strength is imperative, not to mention life saving. In my opinion, it is down right inexcusable, dangerous, and just plain stupid for you guys and gals out there that climb, not to train your grip specifically. And I mean with weights. Yours in grip work, The Grip Coach Years ago the middle of your body was called your midsection, stomach, gut, or maybe abs. Then some fitness marketing wiz started to use the word "core". You know, the engine room of movement. Core. Suddenly, it was everywhere. Core, core, core, core. You didn't work your abs, obliques, external abdominal oblique, or, gawd forbid, your rectus abdominis. I mean it is practically like saying rectum. No, say core. Core,core,clore,core,core. Gawd I hate that word. You know the only thing that is stupider than "core"? Muscle memory. OK, well one's core refers to much more than his or her stomach. That's the exact reason why people say "core" and not "stomach." It encompasses more muscles than you listed. Regardless, what's wrong with the term "muscle memory?" Is it not as fancy as "motor learning?" Edit: That being said, I'm with you that this OP is lame. It's a troll, perhaps by one of the BET meanies; almost certainly by someone that is already a member of this site. I quoted the OP not to reply, but, well you know why. I can't stand buzz words. "Core" is no more accurate than midsection, it just sounds sexier. And simply muscles don't have a memory.
Muscle memory is just a less intimidating term for "motor learning." I think most people realize that muscles don't actually have memory...
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saint_john
Mar 15, 2011, 4:17 PM
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Haven't we concluded that Gibbons are better climbers than Gorillas? If the OP can get me Gibbon-grip I'll give him my credit card number right now.
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olderic
Mar 15, 2011, 4:55 PM
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robdotcalm wrote: spikeddem wrote: Hmm. I've never thought of core as a buzz word. Maybe I'm too young. That's right. I'm an old man and every time I hear the phrase "core strength" I find it amusing. When I started climbing decades ago if you asked a climber what came to mind when you said "core", the reply would be "apple". But the current usage of core doesn't bother me, since language evolves and core-strength is now the term for strength in pelvic-abdominal area. rob.calm
u peeps mos def r not core
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milesenoell
Mar 15, 2011, 4:56 PM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: And simply muscles don't have a memory.
Muscles don't have memory, but "the neurons that fire together wire together" which is functionally equivalent.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 15, 2011, 6:07 PM
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milesenoell wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: And simply muscles don't have a memory. Muscles don't have memory, but "the neurons that fire together wire together" which is functionally equivalent.
Since rob has blessed my official entry to geezerdom, I'll continue with some more crumudgemly comments...
If your aunt had balls she would be functionally equivalent to your uncle. The neurons aren't in your musles. "Muscle memory" is like "war of words", it is a stupid phrase. You can rationalize it away, but it doesn't make it right.
Now that I've had my harumph, back to old e's suggestion of mos def. I think Ms. Fat Ass is in my future.
Err booty. Damn, badly unhip again.
(This post was edited by Toast_in_the_Machine on Mar 15, 2011, 6:10 PM)
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dynosore
Mar 15, 2011, 6:15 PM
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Wait, my kinetic chin needs to extend from my core to my fingertips? So confusing.....
How do you propose training grip strength with weights? I've trained my grip strength by gripping 
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cracklover
Mar 15, 2011, 6:32 PM
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gripcoach wrote: I started writing this reply on this forum in several post that ask about grip just to maybe help a little bit. So if you see it in other places, sorry but grip strength can save your life. Realizing there is many, many questions about grip I felt is might deserve its own thread. Dear Climbers, I have to applaud anyone that participates in this sport. There is a lot of BS out there about weight lifting every where you look. The key to weight training for any sport is core training, kinetic chain, and muscle memory. If you do not incorporate weight training in you preparation for any type climbing you are missing out on being the best you can be. As several people have responded, the real strength comes from over all body strength especially the core. Kinetic chining comes into effect every time you use your hands. In extreme sport such as you do, extending the kinetic chin all the way down to the very finger tips is crucial. Muscle memory can only be achieved by making your muscles perform a specific movement over and over again. In your sport all around grip strength is imperative, not to mention life saving. In my opinion, it is down right inexcusable, dangerous, and just plain stupid for you guys and gals out there that climb, not to train your grip specifically. And I mean with weights. Yours in grip work, The Grip Coach
Hey, I just realized, I think it's Slopur Lokoff from gunks.com!
Welcome to rc.n00b Slopur!
GO
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itstoearly
Mar 15, 2011, 7:47 PM
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I haven't heard that many buzzwords together since I worked in the cloud computing industry where I fixed the HTML code that people used to connect to the Outlook server, which also housed the LDAP database.
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md3
Mar 15, 2011, 8:13 PM
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Regardless of the reality that technique is more important than any particular strength, I for one would like to hear Mr. Grip's training suggestions for grip strength. I already spend some pretty boring time on a campus and hang board and there are definitely times when I get gripped for no other reason than dwindling grip strength while trying to get a piece in or a bolt clipped.
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gripcoach
Mar 15, 2011, 11:41 PM
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Md3 I am relieved there is people out there that are serious about getting better. These first comments are directed to the close minded people on this thread. But for those like md3 the rest is for you guys and if you would like me to relay more you can do, if not I’ll spend my time teaching people that want to improve their skills.
By no means did I mean anyone here is stupid! To do the things that you guys do takes many, many smarts. You are constantly calculating angles, dealing with the laws of physics and gravity, just to name a few things you consider every moment. Not to mention you have to calculate all this in mere seconds, so to me this sport takes quite intelligent, athletic, coordinated, and courageous people. I respect anyone that chooses to become the best at their sport.
However, some of the replies remind me that, as in every sport and every forum, there are some ignorant folks on the line. For the closed minded, I say more power to you and I’ll ignore your drivel. For those with an open mind that may want to be the best they can be I offer my expertise to you. And mojomonkey there is no charge.
As for boring, strength training might be boring sometimes but I would prefer to be bored than to meet St Peter early.
First of all I use the term core because it does incorporate a multitude of areas on your body and this word makes communicating the areas without describing all the areas involves. I don’t necessarily like the word either, but many people know exactly what I’m talking about when I use the term.
Second, there is such a thing as muscle memory, kinetic chain, as well as much other very important information I can relate to you if you want me to. If not, no skin of my back.
To start with there are three different types of grip humans have. Rock climbers should be concerned with all three and work all three. Pinch grip: When your thumb is on one side of an object and your fingers are on the other side and the object is pinched between them. Crushing grip: the kind you use for a hand shake or when one uses a hand gripper, or pliers. And claw Grip: the kind you use when opening a big jar.
I have a training session to get to, but here is something to try.
You can do this strength work while watching TV: These two are great for finger strength.
* This one I call “finger walking”: Take a hammer in between the tips of your fingers with your hands in a position as if you are clapping your hands in the closed position. The head of the hammer would be facing down. Start either at the head of the hammer or at the end of the handle. Just start walking you fingers down or up the handle keeping the hammer between your fingertips. Do this up and down several times for one set. When that becomes easy, add weight to the hammer head, get a heavier hammer, or just do it with three fingers, or two fingers. Work up to being able to do it with a sledge hammer and you will have world class finger strength.
*Fine pinch work needle: Take a large knitting needle and tape some sort of light weight to the head of the needle. With the weight pointing down working one hand at a time, pinch the needle between your thumb and fingers down by the head. Release your pinch just enough to allow the needle to slip about an inch and catch it in another pinch and so on until you get the end and start again. Work the weight up a little at a time and work to do this with your thumb and single finger pinch with all of your fingers. Don’t forget to work both hands.
I got to go! Talk to you next time.
-Grip Coach
Warning: Serious grip work takes time. Be careful if you are not used to real grip work because straining your tendons and ligaments to much can put you out of action for quite awhile. With any exercise I suggest start light and don’t over train.
(This post was edited by gripcoach on Mar 15, 2011, 11:47 PM)
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spikeddem
Mar 15, 2011, 11:56 PM
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You'd think that if grip was so correlated with mortality that fewer people would climb, wouldn't you?
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gripcoach
Mar 16, 2011, 12:09 AM
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That is what I am trying to get across to folks. Earlier in the thread someone said thet strengthening your grip was boring and they don't do it. But if grip is crucial to your sport and it is in climbing then I think you should make it as good as posible.
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gripcoach
Mar 16, 2011, 12:51 PM
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I’d be glad to and at no charge. This is too important to keep from people. For questions check out:
gorillawarfare.mma.gym@gmail.com
In the e-mail subject line address questions to gripcoach. I’ll try to help!
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gripcoach
Mar 16, 2011, 1:13 PM
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I don't kknow about the %, but if you can improve your hand strength then why not. If you are a race car driver, you can race with any car. But, by adding some power to the engine you have might mean the difference to winning or losing.
All's I'm saying is there is some grreat stuff out there to icrease your climbing results.
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