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petsfed
Mar 22, 2011, 10:01 PM
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1) maldaly is a lot shorter than I expected. Seriously, I was expecting this enormous 6'8" lumberjack looking dude. Instead, we've got this 5'8" lumberjack looking dude. Subtle difference, I know.
2) the only thing worse than the spray lord who can't deliver on the climb next to you is the spray lord who can't deliver in your party. My best climbing days were the ones without my spraymaster buddy. Since we pissed away our best days to climb big routes waiting for him to remember how to climb, I never got any routes longer than 100' my whole stay in area. And man was I drooling looking west...
3) the average resident of the Red Rock BLM campground cannot read. Dogs off leashes, "dude, you don't have to pay until like 11am", mandatory quiet hours don't just apply to the people who don't have dredlocks, way more than 2 cars in any given camp, it just gets worse from there. No wonder the campground host is so foul-tempered. Nobody reads the signs, let alone obeys them.
4) while we're on the subject of basic politeness and following the rules, lets talk about where to poop at the crag:
Can you see the trail from where you are pooping? Is it between your feet? DON'T POOP THERE. Furthermore, putting a rock the size of a silver dollar on top of your poop does not camoflague it any more than putting sprinkles on your ice cream camoflagues it. On the 6 or so times this occurred at the Second Pullout, in the same day, (I'm assuming it wasn't all the same person, since the deuces looked quite firm, rather than kind of watery and unconsolidated), I kept thinking "does waste really need garnish?"
5) enjoy the Hamlet and Civilization wall while they aren't in the books sold at the visitor's center. That was pretty sweet getting on casual sport climbs, close to the road, without waiting.
6) I believe the only reason Atman crag is not super crowded is because a lot of people think "40' of hand jamming just can't be worth a 45 minute hike (per the red book)". First, its like 15 minutes, second, if you've got big fat mits like mine, its a full-value 40'. My thumb muscles prevent a handjam until above the notch/block/foot hold thingy, but my fingers are too tiny to ringlock instead. It was heinous, and definitely felt like a Vedauwoo 10a. Also, whoever patched the liquid-nails-and-hardware-store-bolts job, good work! I had no idea where those bolts were placed some 3 years ago.
7) in retrospect, I shouldn't have gone to Red Rock just before, and during, the Red Rock Rendezvous. The parking lots were standing room only. I guess everybody else heard the climbing was good too.
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blueeyedclimber
Mar 22, 2011, 10:21 PM
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Hey, we were there. We didn't see you! Although, we got a sweet hotel room. We didn't slum it with you guys !
Btw, I feel you with the poo. I really noticed it the last day. We went over to Sandstone Quarry to check it out on Sunday. It was cold and windy so we didn't stay that long, but I did notice all the poo on the trail. I assumed it was all dog poo. Are you saying that humans are pooing on the trails? Good God!
Check out my trip report.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...orum_view_collapsed;
Josh
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petsfed
Mar 22, 2011, 10:44 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Hey, we were there. We didn't see you! Although, we got a sweet hotel room. We didn't slum it with you guys ! Btw, I feel you with the poo. I really noticed it the last day. We went over to Sandstone Quarry to check it out on Sunday. It was cold and windy so we didn't stay that long, but I did notice all the poo on the trail. I assumed it was all dog poo. Are you saying that humans are pooing on the trails? Good God! Check out my trip report. http://www.rockclimbing.com/...orum_view_collapsed; Josh
Well, we got a hotel room monday night (the Suncoast has really cheap rooms!), since there were no campsites left, but hit the campground at 8am tuesday morning, thinking we'd have to bail to Moab or somewhere else with plentiful camping, and caught a pack of Candians on their way out. Lucky as hell.
I did read your trip report, didn't want to post up my experience in yours though, since I just cranked out my report during a coffee break, so it isn't good writing at all. The big thing that Paula and I determined was that when we go for big routes, its worthwhile to spend the day before learning the approach (and even the drive in, if you've got a low clearance vehicle, or that lousy Mountaineer's book, with really terrible driving directions), just so you don't get skunked before you leave the ground. And also, it should just be her and I when we dream big, rather than a big trip with a bunch of friends, since Paula's my most regular climbing partner (if not the strongest), so I know her abilities the best.
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potreroed
Mar 24, 2011, 4:08 AM
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Registered: Sep 30, 2001
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Man, I read this stuff and I'm thankful that I did most of my climbing at Red Rocks in the 70's and early 80's--before sport climbing, when Decatur Blvd. was the edge of town and you could camp anywhere you wanted.
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l3uddy789
Mar 26, 2011, 11:16 AM
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I went to Red Rocks last week, but I really enjoyed it. Originally we planned to start on the wall just to the right of hamlet but it was more packed then black corridor... hamlet was completely empty though. I agree there was way too much poop on the trail. There are doggy bags at all the pull outs so it's kind of ridiculous people still won't pick up after their pets. Other than poop though we had a great time. The group I met up with reserved a group site and having a toilet to poop on was prime. I defently want to go back at a less busy time of year though. Did you try climbing at black corridor at all?
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rgold
Mar 26, 2011, 1:28 PM
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I understand why the locals sport-climb at Red Rock, but I can't grasp why anyone would travel a long distance to go there and then waste their time on half-pitch mediocre sport routes. On the other hand, I guess it is a good thing that the sport crags are siphoning some part of the crowds off the longer routes, which are the only real reason to journey to Red Rock.
It is also true that long routes aren't fun and can turn into epics if you aren't with a compatible partner who is competent at multipitch practices and logistics (nowadays this is completely different from how hard they climb) and is willing and enthusiastic about getting up before it is light out in order to have a full day for climbing.
After several trips, I learned that if you have the bucks, staying in a hotel that isn't too far away is by far the best way to get early starts, especially in March when the campground can be really cold and windy at 5 AM.
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k.l.k
Mar 26, 2011, 8:28 PM
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rgold wrote: I understand why the locals sport-climb at Red Rock, but I can't grasp why anyone would travel a long distance to go there and then waste their time on half-pitch mediocre sport routes.
+1.
The long routes at RR are as close as you can get to the Dolomites in this country.
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vegastradguy
Mar 26, 2011, 9:47 PM
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rgold wrote: I understand why the locals sport-climb at Red Rock, but I can't grasp why anyone would travel a long distance to go there and then waste their time on half-pitch mediocre sport routes.
probably because you're starting with a faulty assumption that all the sport routes are mediocre- there are certainly mediocre climbs here (as there are everywhere), but we have more than our share of amazing sport climbing here.
one of the biggest reasons i love red rock is the ability to do exceptional climbing of whatever type you're feeling like doing. the bouldering, sport climbing, and trad climbing are all world class and are worth the trip by themselves, and to have them all available is pretty damn awesome.
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rgold
Mar 27, 2011, 12:23 AM
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Well, John, you would know better than I. I stand corrected on the "mediocre" part.
As for world class sport and bouldering, I'd have to leave that to others with more extensive experience than mine. What makes Red Rock unique and a worthy destination for me is the longer routes.
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notapplicable
Mar 27, 2011, 3:07 AM
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petsfed wrote: 7) in retrospect, I shouldn't have gone to Red Rock just before, and during, the Red Rock Rendezvous. The parking lots were standing room only. I guess everybody else heard the climbing was good too.
Dude. Seriously, you've been climbing way too long to just be figuring this out now.
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petsfed
Mar 27, 2011, 4:19 PM
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notapplicable wrote: petsfed wrote: 7) in retrospect, I shouldn't have gone to Red Rock just before, and during, the Red Rock Rendezvous. The parking lots were standing room only. I guess everybody else heard the climbing was good too. Dude. Seriously, you've been climbing way too long to just be figuring this out now.
It was more that I had planned my trip to coincide with my spring break (yes, I still do that), and then found out later that it happened at the same time as the RRR. Since otherwise, I'd have to wait (on the inside) another 5 years to ever go to Red Rock, I figured I may as well just tolerate it this once, rather than go back to Moab (which was our backup plan when we couldn't find camping), or go somewhere I really didn't want to go (e.g. Joshua Tree or Bishop).
Downside to being a student (such as it is) is that your free time tends to coincide with that of a huge mass of similarly minded people, and you just have to take what you can get.
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notapplicable
Mar 27, 2011, 7:08 PM
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petsfed wrote: notapplicable wrote: petsfed wrote: 7) in retrospect, I shouldn't have gone to Red Rock just before, and during, the Red Rock Rendezvous. The parking lots were standing room only. I guess everybody else heard the climbing was good too. Dude. Seriously, you've been climbing way too long to just be figuring this out now. It was more that I had planned my trip to coincide with my spring break (yes, I still do that), and then found out later that it happened at the same time as the RRR. Since otherwise, I'd have to wait (on the inside) another 5 years to ever go to Red Rock, I figured I may as well just tolerate it this once, rather than go back to Moab (which was our backup plan when we couldn't find camping), or go somewhere I really didn't want to go (e.g. Joshua Tree or Bishop). Downside to being a student (such as it is) is that your free time tends to coincide with that of a huge mass of similarly minded people, and you just have to take what you can get.
Ha! Yeah, you got screwed on that one. To be honest though, I would probably have gone under those circumstances as well. I've never been anywhere within driving distance during a rendezvous (never will) but Red Rocks is far away and high on the list of places I want to go so if the opportunity presented itself, I'd be on that plane. Rendezvous be damned!
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caughtinside
Mar 27, 2011, 7:34 PM
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The biggest problem with Red Rocks is that it is too easy to fly into. If it actually took some gumption to get there, it wouldn't be so flooded with climbers.
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k.l.k
Mar 27, 2011, 7:40 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: rgold wrote: I understand why the locals sport-climb at Red Rock, but I can't grasp why anyone would travel a long distance to go there and then waste their time on half-pitch mediocre sport routes. probably because you're starting with a faulty assumption that all the sport routes are mediocre- there are certainly mediocre climbs here (as there are everywhere), but we have more than our share of amazing sport climbing here.
The long free routes at RR are unique world class, esp. for face climbing and when you factor in the weather. I really wish I had free time in season to get back and do more of them.
The sport climbing is fine, but it's not world class. I have overhanging choss with bolts close to home.
The bouldering is really good and probably still underdeveloped.
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vegastradguy
Mar 27, 2011, 9:39 PM
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k.l.k wrote: vegastradguy wrote: rgold wrote: I understand why the locals sport-climb at Red Rock, but I can't grasp why anyone would travel a long distance to go there and then waste their time on half-pitch mediocre sport routes. probably because you're starting with a faulty assumption that all the sport routes are mediocre- there are certainly mediocre climbs here (as there are everywhere), but we have more than our share of amazing sport climbing here. The long free routes at RR are unique world class, esp. for face climbing and when you factor in the weather. I really wish I had free time in season to get back and do more of them. The sport climbing is fine, but it's not world class. I have overhanging choss with bolts close to home. The bouldering is really good and probably still underdeveloped.
you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but calling Red Rock sport climbing choss is, imho, a delusion.
at any rate, Red Rock has world class climbing of any type you like. if you dont like to sport climb, fine- go climb the long stuff, but dont bag on it just because it isnt what you come here for.
i live here, and was (and still am) enamored of the long trad routes here, but have spent the last year falling in love with the amazing sport climbing here- especially the stuff most people dont go to. The Gallery, Corridor, Panty Wall, Magic Bus are all shit and probably not really worth visiting (the Gallery's hard .11s and up notwithstanding)- the good stuff is elsewhere.
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k.l.k
Mar 28, 2011, 1:02 AM
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vegastradguy wrote: the bouldering, sport climbing, and trad climbing are all world class
I suspect that you and I mean something different by that phrase. Personally, I enjoyed the sport climbing at RR, but it definitely wasn't world class when I was there. I'm open to persuasion-- maybe things have changed dramatically.
Ceuse, Boux, Rodellar, Margalef, Santa Linya, Red Rocks . . ..
The long routes that RGold alludes to are definitely among the best I've seen, especially given the stable weather. There's no Drei ZInnen or Marmolada Suedwand, but there's stacks of routes unlike anything else anywhere in the states and what looks like potential for more.
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rtwilli4
Mar 29, 2011, 1:06 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: rgold wrote: I understand why the locals sport-climb at Red Rock, but I can't grasp why anyone would travel a long distance to go there and then waste their time on half-pitch mediocre sport routes. probably because you're starting with a faulty assumption that all the sport routes are mediocre- there are certainly mediocre climbs here (as there are everywhere), but we have more than our share of amazing sport climbing here. one of the biggest reasons i love red rock is the ability to do exceptional climbing of whatever type you're feeling like doing. the bouldering, sport climbing, and trad climbing are all world class and are worth the trip by themselves, and to have them all available is pretty damn awesome.
But that's different... you live there. If you feel like sport climbing you sport climb but if you want to do a big route you can. Either way you're going back to your house at night and not dealing with the ridiculous camping situation. You also know where to go to avoid the crowds since you are a local.
Visiting climbers, as you know, have a different experience. To travel any substantial distance and not get on anything big just doesn't make sense. Sure there is great sport at Red Rocks but with the hassle and expense of the camping, the crowds, etc, I think I'd go somewhere else to clip bolts. The sport there isn't any better than a half dozen other major destinations that all have a more reasonable camping scene and a lot more to choose from.
I can deal with pretty much anything if it means getting on big quality routes. Red Rocks has that, so that's what I'll do. I can't imagine what it must feel like to get stuck w/ a partner that lied about his climbing ability, forcing me to do single pitch stuff and dream about the big routes. I would have bailed on that guy pretty fast.
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vegastradguy
Mar 29, 2011, 1:19 PM
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jesus you guys, i'm not bagging on the long routes or even people who want to come and do the long routes- i get it- you're literally preaching to the choir.
plenty of people- hell, thousands of people, come here every year to climb the sport routes here. all i'm saying is that its perfectly fine for them to do so, and it does make sense, even if you guys dont see it.
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billcoe_
Mar 29, 2011, 5:02 PM
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rgold wrote: I understand why the locals sport-climb at Red Rock, but I can't grasp why anyone would travel a long distance to go there and then waste their time on half-pitch mediocre sport routes.
Come to the Pacific NW all the way North up to Squamish anytime Richard. People from here step off the plane in Vegas and are dazed and confused ...amazed at the unusual and strangely warm bright yellow orb in the sky they have down there. We can easily go a month to 2 months of rain every day. The only sun we see in on the internet....usually someplace like Libya, or Vegas. So if you are a sport climber around here, being able to go someplace dry is a refreshing and enjoyable break from a dark, bleak, wet winter......
I'm not a sport climber although I climb the occasional bolted route, but looking out my window at the 60th straight day of wet weather, I can understand and empathize.
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Kartessa
Mar 29, 2011, 7:49 PM
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rgold wrote: I understand why the locals sport-climb at Red Rock, but I can't grasp why anyone would travel a long distance to go there and then waste their time on half-pitch mediocre sport routes. On the other hand, I guess it is a good thing that the sport crags are siphoning some part of the crowds off the longer routes, which are the only real reason to journey to Red Rock.
It's called 3 months of snow. Plus, as a destination, it does have the cheapest flights.
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jbro_135
Mar 29, 2011, 8:31 PM
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Kartessa wrote: rgold wrote: I understand why the locals sport-climb at Red Rock, but I can't grasp why anyone would travel a long distance to go there and then waste their time on half-pitch mediocre sport routes. On the other hand, I guess it is a good thing that the sport crags are siphoning some part of the crowds off the longer routes, which are the only real reason to journey to Red Rock. It's called 3 months of snow. Plus, as a destination, it does have the cheapest flights.
If only winter here were 3 months...I thought spring was here a few weeks ago and went climbing, then it snowed another two feet. This weeks highest forecasted temperature: 2 degrees with snow or rain
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Kartessa
Mar 29, 2011, 8:52 PM
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jbro_135 wrote: Kartessa wrote: rgold wrote: I understand why the locals sport-climb at Red Rock, but I can't grasp why anyone would travel a long distance to go there and then waste their time on half-pitch mediocre sport routes. On the other hand, I guess it is a good thing that the sport crags are siphoning some part of the crowds off the longer routes, which are the only real reason to journey to Red Rock. It's called 3 months of snow. Plus, as a destination, it does have the cheapest flights. If only winter here were 3 months...I thought spring was here a few weeks ago and went climbing, then it snowed another two feet. This weeks highest forecasted temperature: 2 degrees with snow or rain
Sounds like you should go sport climbing in Red Rocks!
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