What does this have to do with anything, other than some needless chest puffing? Josh grades are about average. The vast majority of accident reports that I have seen at Josh have been associated with climbers that lived in the general SoCo area.

"As a public service announcement I will say to those of you who are either new to climbing, or new to Josh, don't underestimate the ratings out here, or anywhere for that matter. You may be a 5.11 climber at your home crag, but don't bet on it here."

What does this have to do with anything, other than some needless chest puffing? Josh grades are about average. The vast majority of accident reports that I have seen at Josh have been associated with climbers that lived in the general SoCo area.

I also find this kind of funny, He says that there was a rappelling accident then goes on to talk about not getting in over your head with ratings. I guess they may have been trying to rap from somewhere midway up the route they were bailing off of or something, but since he hasn't provided any info on the accident it is all just speculation.

Personally (and I've climbed all over the western US) I find the grades at J-tree to be on par with most other traditional climbing areas, but it is true that the descents can be a bit tricky sometimes.

Josh grades are about average.

The vast majority of accident reports that I have seen at Josh have been associated with climbers that lived in the general SoCo area.

....Josh descents can be very challenging and in some case dangerous if your down climbing skills are not solid or non-existent....

I will say one other thing, you sound like competent trad climber. What you fail to realize is this is being flooded with new trad leaders or pure sport climbers breaking into trad. They come into Nomad in droves.

I'm off to work, hopefully I'll more info this afternoon.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I agree that there are tons of new trad leaders or pure sport climbers breaking into trad at J-tree. Of course these people will feel that the grades are sandbagged, especially if they get on a pure crack route (double cross) or a slab route. I think that it is very important that people don't get in over their heads, I just didn't (still don't) understand how that was related to this particular accident.

I'm sorry to hear about this accident and feel terrible for all who were involved or knew the climber. I look forward to getting more details so that I can hopefully learn something from this accident.

I'd tend to agree here, but I did learn to climb at JTree, so I'm used to the style of climbing. I'm sure routes at the Gunks or Seneca are similarly graded (old school trad) but take a 5.10 Gunks or Seneca climber, throw them on a 5.10 JTree slab, and watch the ensuing disaster.

that is a difference in style not in grades. I'd much rather walk up to a 5.__ roof than a similar slab multiple grades below that because that is what i'm used to. Can watch the opposite happen at RRG or the Gunks.. super confident slab climbers who don't have the power or endurance for steep stuff.

Precisely my point, I just failed to state it clearly.

I spoke to this guy. He was sweet. However, when I asked what he was able to lead, he was unsure, when I asked when he lasted lead he didn't know. When I asked where he usually climbing he didn't answer. When I asked about what gear he had, he didn't have any with him either, trad or sport or a rope. Unless maybe he did use someone else's.
I told him I wasn't available during the week, he said he was going to go to j.tree or red rocks and wasn't sure. That he would call me. I didn't feel confident that he had skills for outside climbing based on my conversation with him. I opted out.
He said he was going to "wing it" and look for a partner. I told him just to get a boulder pad and enjoy that.
However he said he wanted to climb routes. He was very sweet on the phone. He was anxious to climb, anywhere, right away.
I wasn't sure how this could be managed . He said he would get a group together. However wasn't sure how?
I just felt unsure of any of his skills, belaying, and how long it was since he climbed. I told him there were some top ropes at jtree.
He was confident he would find someone wherever he went.
I'm am truly sorry about his accident. I did not know him. Though he sounded nice on the phone. Truthfully he could have used a guide. or an experienced mentor.
Sympathy to his family and friends. I am very sorry for this accident. He sounded like a nice guy.

Based on my own personal record keeping ,in 2009 some 16 climbers with numerous climbing experiences died from rappelling alone and if I have to back track 10 year records, rappelling fatalities were always the number one on the list next to avalanche related incident.Based on what I have seen, almost 90% of the accident was preventable as simple as adding a safety knot or double checking the rap anchor before rappelling.

Here is a reliable source that goes back to 1951...

http://www.americanalpineclub.org/...f/anam/anam_2007.pdf

Here is a reliable source that goes back to 1951...

http://www.americanalpineclub.org/documents/pdf/anam/anam_2007.pdf

Are you claiming you talked to David Pinegar, the man who died in Joshua Tree? From the supertopo link it seems he was an experienced climber, so your understanding of his needs seem to be completely wrong. The news article said he was on a motorcycle trip, so maybe he just didn't bring his own gear.