Hmm. I don't have any evidence; the only argument I can really make is "Why not V11?" If you think anyone could do V11, then why not V12? (and so on)

I don't know if ANYONE could, but I'll half agree and say the majority could. Although the majority is not willing to put in the work that it takes to get to that level.

I'd like to say YES, almost anyone could do it. For example, anyone willing to do the following/basically the work.

-5% body fat.
-Spend 5+ years training power with bouldering/power oriented training.
-Climb open handed 90% of your climbing.
-Get enough nutrients
-stay injury or almost injury free/by doing what you'll find in that forum

It's possible for anyone to do those things if they desired. None of those things have much to do with genetic limitations.

I don't believe one could say they couldn't climb v10 due to anything but personal limiting beliefs until they've done the above listed things, imo.

I was tested at 6.5% body fat at 5 11 3/4 and 158 lbs this weekend. I plan on cutting about 4 lbs and getting to 5% then maintaining that.

FYI, I would have disagreed with me one year ago ;)

Couple of small updates on this.

One, I've cut another 3 lbs for 17 lbs total.... I've got 3-4 lbs to go which will put me at 6 0 154. It's getting very hard to trim at this point ... I'm around 6.5% body fat now.

Two, I've continued to do my campus workout, I no longer ever use the larger rung because it's to easy for me to do 8+ reps with 30 lbs hanging on me.

I'm using the one pad rungs now, doing doubles, skipping one rung on the way up and one on the way down. 3 weeks ago when I did this I managed a best of 7 reps without weight. Yesterday I did it again and managed 8 reps on 3 different sets with 10 lbs added! Pretty psyched, definately a measurable improvement. I haven't been able to do a harder grade bouldering yet but I have been seeing my onsight level and the rate at which I can dispose of boulder problems below my max speed up. I estimate that by the time I can do 8 reps on this one pad rung, doubles, with 30 lbs, I should do v13. It may take a year or two though, well see, things are going very well and there is no plateau in sight.

A side note, by staying away from crimping as much as possible, and by losing even more weight, I've noticed my body/fingers hurt less in general, I'm able to climb at a high level every other day.... the only time i feel beat down is if I crimp.

It's surprising to me how much less it hurts to climb in general being so light weight and because I can climb more at a high level in general I'm sure that will pay dividends in terms of overall strength and by being able to workout more, longer, it will be easier to cut the weight off.

BTW, I only crimp at my max power level about once a month. Usually because im outside and a problem has one crimp or I'm at a comp and I can't be competitive without doing a couple crimper problems.

What bouldering bell curve are you speaking of?

If there was one that was accurate, would it look different in 20 years? What would it have looked like 20 years ago?

Have you met someone who's been 5% body fat for 5 years and regularly bouldered and power trained who can't climb v10? Is it in most people's control to get to 5% body fat and boulder/power train regularly for five years? Could most people choose to climb certain types of holds and climbs that are less likely to injure you?

Do we really know what's possible given the lack of sport science in climbing?

I'm not saying you've mistaken, just that, much, much more is possible than most people believe and that I think this debate would be totally different in twenty years.

Bottom line is, which philosophy is most likely to allow you to succeed? Would you prefer to be right or to be more successful?

PZ

-----very classy, congratulations on resorting to insults.

What bouldering bell curve are you speaking of?

If there was one that was accurate, would it look different in 20 years? What would it have looked like 20 years ago?

Have you met someone who's been 5% body fat for 5 years and regularly bouldered and power trained who can't climb v10? Is it in most people's control to get to 5% body fat and boulder/power train regularly for five years? Could most people choose to climb certain types of holds and climbs that are less likely to injure you?

Do we really know what's possible given the lack of sport science in climbing?

I'm not saying you've mistaken, just that, much, much more is possible than most people believe and that I think this debate would be totally different in twenty years.

Bottom line is, which philosophy is most likely to allow you to succeed? Would you prefer to be right or to be more successful?

PZ

*stuff*

I didn't insult you.

So, you edit your post, remove the insults, and then claim you didn't insult anybody?

Just lovely.

this is a different thread ,
don't get confused by lack of compassion for your fellow rockclimber.

Pictures Please

While you disagree with genetics, have you ever seen identical twins raised apart with different diets and training?
Or ones that were raised in different families, who didn't even know the other one existed.
Guess what they weigh? , stays within a few pounds of each other. When trained for a sport their body types , muscles remain quite similiar.
Sure you can change some of the variables, However genetics plays a major part.

What does your diet consist of?

I have two friends of mine who are ironman/ironwoman.
They train hard and have been for 10 years or more. However they had a natural body type for running,swimming,biking for those intense competitions.
Of course if they never decided to compete. Who knows what they could do.

It's training and genetics both.

I've trained with those Winklevoss twins, guess what when they row apart their pace, split is almost identical.

Are you a teenager?


(This post was edited by enigma on Apr 22, 2011, 1:58 AM)

Pictures Please

While you disagree with genetics,----genetics make a big difference, i've been surrounded by mutants for years, however, v10 isn't mutant level. One of my main climbing partners could do pull ups off one pad middle finger monos when he could only boulder v7, I still can't do this. FYI, he went from v7 to v13 in 3 years and now is winning competitions.

have you ever seen identical twins raised apart with different diets and training?
Or ones that were raised in different families, who didn't even know the other one existed.
Guess what they weigh? , stays within a few pounds of each other. When trained for a sport their body types , muscles remain quite similiar.
Sure you can change some of the variables, However genetics plays a major part.

What does your diet consist of?

---------my diet is listed in one of my other threads here. For most people, if you burn more calories than you eat, you will lose fat. Are you saying that if people burn 2500 calories/day and eat 2000 they won't lose fat?

I have two friends of mine who are ironman/ironwoman.
They train hard and have been for 10 years or more. However they had a natural body type for running,swimming,biking for those intense competitions.
Of course if they never decided to compete. Who knows what they could do.

It's training and genetics both.

I've trained with those Winklevoss twins, guess what when they row apart their pace, split is almost identical.

----they probably workout the same, apparently they spend alot of time together, stands to reason

Are you a teenager?