Forums: Climbing Information: Injury Treatment and Prevention:
3 1/2 yr shoulder injury
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Injury Treatment and Prevention

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


anarkhos


Apr 20, 2011, 11:04 PM
Post #1 of 47 (5203 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 224

3 1/2 yr shoulder injury
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

(yea, I know I'm a mess)

So about 3 1/2 years ago (mid Oct 2007?) I did something to my shoulder. I don't know exactly what, but it while it was on a crux of a climb, it wasn't weight-bearing (I made a swimming motion with my left hand which was free and my shoulder made a sound like a carcass being run over). This was just before a climbing trip so I probably aggravated whatever it was. Basically, it really hurt to pull back on holds to my left or above my head. It also hurts (seems to get inflamed) if I try to lift a weight over my head or attempt a headstand push-ups, which I could easily do 10 in a row prior to the injury. Also, my left shoulder visibly rests higher than my right.

I've tried some low-weight rotator cuff exercises but I really don't think they've done anything. My healthy weight is probably 145-155lb and I immediately dropped to 138lb and couldn't gain a pound for two years (which I partially attribute to not being able to work out). I've recently been able to gain a bit and my shoulder feels a tad stronger, but I think this is mainly due to learning how to avoid using those weak motions. It still rests higher than my right.

Has anyone heard of these symptoms before?


flesh


Apr 21, 2011, 2:32 PM
Post #2 of 47 (5148 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 413

Re: [anarkhos] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

anarkhos wrote:
(yea, I know I'm a mess)

So about 3 1/2 years ago (mid Oct 2007?) I did something to my shoulder. I don't know exactly what, but it while it was on a crux of a climb, it wasn't weight-bearing (I made a swimming motion with my left hand which was free and my shoulder made a sound like a carcass being run over). This was just before a climbing trip so I probably aggravated whatever it was. Basically, it really hurt to pull back on holds to my left or above my head. It also hurts (seems to get inflamed) if I try to lift a weight over my head or attempt a headstand push-ups, which I could easily do 10 in a row prior to the injury. Also, my left shoulder visibly rests higher than my right.

I've tried some low-weight rotator cuff exercises but I really don't think they've done anything. My healthy weight is probably 145-155lb and I immediately dropped to 138lb and couldn't gain a pound for two years (which I partially attribute to not being able to work out). I've recently been able to gain a bit and my shoulder feels a tad stronger, but I think this is mainly due to learning how to avoid using those weak motions. It still rests higher than my right.

Has anyone heard of these symptoms before?

I had elbow tendonitis three times, over 2 years. That was 9 years ago, haven't had it since. At the time, I was doing a ton, to much, lock off training and training one arm pull ups. I did some opposing muscle group training and stopped training lockoffs and one arms. No more elbow issues since. I climb harder now than I did then, I could do 2 one arms then, now I can do none. I only bring this up because you mentioned beaing able to easily do 10 + headstand pushups before the injury, I use to be able to do that in high school. They aren't easy, so I assume for you to be able to do 10+ you must have been doing them off and on over a period of time. This could have contributed to your shoulder injury, so stay away from powerful shoulder workouts.

I recently, for the first time, had my shoulders hurting, especially when lifter higher than my shoulder or on full extension moves, or when grabbing my seat belt.

Since then I've done light weight high rep 5 lb dumbells shoulder workouts 2-3 times a week combined with shoulder stretching every time I climb a few times each spread out over an hour.

Shoulders are fine now after a little over a month.

it should at least make a difference.


erisspirit


Apr 21, 2011, 3:19 PM
Post #3 of 47 (5138 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 3739

Re: [anarkhos] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

You should probably go see a doctor and see what they have to say. (and should have before 3 1/2 years went by)


anarkhos


Apr 22, 2011, 12:03 AM
Post #4 of 47 (5112 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 224

Re: [erisspirit] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Yea, I did see a doctor, and he was less than worthless.

LESS than worthless.


enigma


Apr 22, 2011, 1:19 AM
Post #5 of 47 (5106 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2279

Re: [anarkhos] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

anarkhos wrote:
Yea, I did see a doctor, and he was less than worthless.

LESS than worthless.

Did you have an MRI or a shoulder x-ray?

Demand it. Tell the hospital it just happened.

Say whatever gets the goal of getting it done.
They will probably hassle you in you don't have insurance. So once again say whatever gets you in.

Once its done, it will have a report that will say what your shoulder injury is from. You can get a copy of that report.

Don't push your shoulder in positions that cause additional pain. A sling may be helpful.
Good Luck


Jnclk


Apr 22, 2011, 5:05 AM
Post #6 of 47 (5099 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2007
Posts: 89

Re: [anarkhos] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The fact that your problem side rests higher than your right would indicate that your cuff on that side is relatively weak. You may be dealing with an impingement. If this is the case, as you make overhead movements, tissues get "pinched" which causes pain.

I think you should be doing lots of rc strengthening and scapular stabilization. Keep in mind that it takes a long time to get the shoulder to sit correctly in the socket again.

I also think you should be evaluated by a shoulder specialist to get a proper diagnosis (the crunching sound doesn't sound good). So long as you don't have a major tear or other functional issue, then find a good physical therapist and get to work.


(This post was edited by Jnclk on Apr 22, 2011, 10:08 AM)


altelis


Apr 22, 2011, 9:47 AM
Post #7 of 47 (5067 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 2168

Re: [enigma] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Anarkhos- did you see an orthopedist? If no, I WOULD insist on a referral since you feel your initial visit was useless. If it was an orthopedist I might suggest trying to find another one, potentially one with some experience/expertise with sports injuries.

I would hold off on demanding imaging studies until you see a competent orthopedist. This is especially true if you are uninsured.


(This post was edited by altelis on Apr 22, 2011, 3:04 PM)


altelis


Apr 22, 2011, 2:33 PM
Post #9 of 47 (4723 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 2168

Re: [enigma] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

I went back and edited out my replies to Enigma. While I still stand by them 100%, they were detracting from what could be a productive thread about a fellow climber's shoulder injury. Trying to do my part to reduce the noise (even if my first attempt did the opposite...). My replies are still quoted by Enigma, which if she deems it necessary to keep up, is fine. However, I hope she too sees how we've undermined the thread, and gets rid of the unproductive noise...


As to anarkhos- sounds like you have a lot going on right now, and maybe not a lot of ways to get things done. I think finding a place that could help streamline your care would be ideal, though I don't know how probable that is. If you have other questions, hopefully some of the more experienced on this site can help.

Where are you located now? Honestly, the best help may be if anybody here has suggestions for a local doc/PA/NP or clinic that would be amenable to helping out...


(This post was edited by altelis on Apr 22, 2011, 3:02 PM)


onceahardman


Apr 22, 2011, 3:14 PM
Post #10 of 47 (4709 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2459

Re: [enigma] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
I believe someone who is a U.S citzen that is injured and needs medical attention should not be denied.

That's interesting. Well, not really. An irrelevant too.

Umm, maybe you didn't thoroughly read, or comprehend the OP's post.

He DID get medical attention. He found it unsatisfactory, but he DID get quick medical attention.

NO ONE ever got better because he or she had an MRI. An MRI shows the anatomy, but DOES NOT tell you what is causing the pain. For example, a shoulder joint MRI in this case might show, (say), rotator cuff tendinitis, or even a partial tear. But it is possible that the actual symptoms could be caused by, (say), a herniated cervical disc, or a brachial plexus injury.

I cannot tell you how many times I have seen patients who had IDENTICAL symptoms post-operatively, when the surgeon did surgery based solely or mostly due to an MRI. The anatomical problem seen on MRI was repaired, but the PAIN was caused by something else. It's pretty common.

Do yourself a favor. Google "MRI false positive" (and false negative)

That said, MRIs are great. Wonderful. But they need to be used with clinical testing, manual muscle testing, and really good interviewing skills to determine exactly "where the pain is coming from".


enigma


Apr 22, 2011, 8:32 PM
Post #11 of 47 (4680 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2279

Re: [onceahardman] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

onceahardman wrote:
In reply to:
I believe someone who is a U.S citzen that is injured and needs medical attention should not be denied.

That's interesting. Well, not really. An irrelevant too.

Umm, maybe you didn't thoroughly read, or comprehend the OP's post.

He DID get medical attention. He found it unsatisfactory, but he DID get quick medical attention.

NO ONE ever got better because he or she had an MRI. An MRI shows the anatomy, but DOES NOT tell you what is causing the pain. For example, a shoulder joint MRI in this case might show, (say), rotator cuff tendinitis, or even a partial tear. But it is possible that the actual symptoms could be caused by, (say), a herniated cervical disc, or a brachial plexus injury.

I cannot tell you how many times I have seen patients who had IDENTICAL symptoms post-operatively, when the surgeon did surgery based solely or mostly due to an MRI. The anatomical problem seen on MRI was repaired, but the PAIN was caused by something else. It's pretty common.

Do yourself a favor. Google "MRI false positive" (and false negative)

That said, MRIs are great. Wonderful. But they need to be used with clinical testing, manual muscle testing, and really good interviewing skills to determine exactly "where the pain is coming from".



You could just be helpful and offer even an X-ray or a clinic where he could go.
Maybe he needs an MRI , but whatever.
It seems like you are in a position to give back. Now is the time.
Obviously you are or were a doctor, and he needs help.
I'm sure you can P.M him and offer some help to this rockclimber who has suffered for 3 1/2 yrs.
Hasn't he endured enough pain ?Frown


anarkhos


Apr 22, 2011, 9:23 PM
Post #12 of 47 (4668 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 224

Re: [enigma] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I don't get sharp pains in my shoulder anymore, but it does get fatigued (or inflamed?) easily.

Part of the problem is I'm always on the road and don't really have a home base. Right now I'm in Zion, for example.

Sorry to be such a case. I haven't had good experiences with doctors and usually just try to let my body heal itself.


onceahardman


Apr 23, 2011, 5:21 AM
Post #13 of 47 (4637 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2459

Re: [anarkhos] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

You mentioned above that you "tried" some rotator cuff (RC) exercises a few years ago.

RC strengthening is very specific and targeted. It needs to be done EXACTLY correctly, and often in a very dedicated fashion, for a long time (months, rather than days), in order to judge whether it is effective or not.

That is why sports med doctors refer these patients for PT, rather than just handing out a sheet of exercises. They must be done right.

That said, there is much to be said for the "let your body heal itself" approach. The normal state of a health body is healing. But 3.5 years later, you could probably use some help.

Get some skilled hands and eyes on your problem. Find a good PT who treats athletes. If you don't have insurance, then pay privately for a few visits. Most PTs are pretty nice people who like helping others, but they also make their living with their brain, eyes, and hands, and deserve some compensation, same as anybody else.


onceahardman


Apr 23, 2011, 5:31 AM
Post #14 of 47 (4635 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2459

Re: [enigma] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

enigma wrote:

You could just be helpful and offer even an X-ray or a clinic where he could go.
Maybe he needs an MRI , but whatever.
It seems like you are in a position to give back. Now is the time.
Obviously you are or were a doctor, and he needs help.
I'm sure you can P.M him and offer some help to this rockclimber who has suffered for 3 1/2 yrs.
Hasn't he endured enough pain ?Frown

Enigma, you seem to have all kinds of ideas about what other people should be doing.

I help people on a daily basis to feel better, and to have improved function. Usually, I even get paid for it, but often, I do it pro bono, either at my private practice, or on this website, or a couple others. Take a quick look through the injury forum over the past few years, at the posts I've done, and the people I've helped here, all for free.

If you don't like it, you are free to go to med school, or PT school, and offer your own free advice. You can even get a 2 year PTA degree at a community college, and offer sound advice.

"Hasn't he endured enough pain"? Please. Spare me the bleeding heart.


altelis


Apr 23, 2011, 6:08 AM
Post #15 of 47 (4631 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 2168

Re: [onceahardman] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

onceahardman wrote:
enigma wrote:

You could just be helpful and offer even an X-ray or a clinic where he could go.
Maybe he needs an MRI , but whatever.
It seems like you are in a position to give back. Now is the time.
Obviously you are or were a doctor, and he needs help.
I'm sure you can P.M him and offer some help to this rockclimber who has suffered for 3 1/2 yrs.
Hasn't he endured enough pain ?Frown

Enigma, you seem to have all kinds of ideas about what other people should be doing.

I help people on a daily basis to feel better, and to have improved function. Usually, I even get paid for it, but often, I do it pro bono, either at my private practice, or on this website, or a couple others. Take a quick look through the injury forum over the past few years, at the posts I've done, and the people I've helped here, all for free.

If you don't like it, you are free to go to med school, or PT school, and offer your own free advice. You can even get a 2 year PTA degree at a community college, and offer sound advice.

"Hasn't he endured enough pain"? Please. Spare me the bleeding heart.

This bears repeating. Truly, Thank You. Not entirely sure how many people realize/appreciate that when you give advice on here it really is pro bono work, in the end.


onceahardman


Apr 23, 2011, 6:28 AM
Post #16 of 47 (4630 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2459

Re: [altelis] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Blush

Thanks, altelis. I don't help people for any accolades, and it's kind of embarrassing to be singled out. Thanks though.

It does bother me, though, when people seem to suggest doctors should work for free.

Why isn't free plumbing, or electrical work, or house painting, something that all American citizens should get for free if they can't afford it?

I wonder if enigma works for free, or if she thinks all Americans are entitled to her skills (whatever they may be) for free?


anarkhos


Apr 23, 2011, 12:34 PM
Post #17 of 47 (4597 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 224

Re: [onceahardman] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I don't think (most) people believe doctors should work for free. I think they (many) resent a system of 3rd parties taking their money and not delivering results.

What I WOULDN'T do for a healthy shoulder. Unfortunately, health care is mostly based on faith and mysticism.

A cash based system? Bring it on!


onceahardman


Apr 23, 2011, 12:46 PM
Post #18 of 47 (4592 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2459

Re: [anarkhos] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

anarkhos wrote:
I don't think (most) people believe doctors should work for free. I think they (many) resent a system of 3rd parties taking their money and not delivering results.

What I WOULDN'T do for a healthy shoulder. Unfortunately, health care is mostly based on faith and mysticism.

A cash based system? Bring it on!

I know lots of PTs. I don't know any PTs in private practice who don't take cash.

I don't speak for anyone but me, but I engage in evidence-based practice. That's not to say I get everybody better (NO ONE does), but I do have sound clinical reasoning behind what I do.

Sometimes when you expect failure, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.


enigma


Apr 23, 2011, 12:53 PM
Post #19 of 47 (4590 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2279

Re: [onceahardman] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

onceahardman wrote:
Blush

Thanks, altelis. I don't help people for any accolades, and it's kind of embarrassing to be singled out. Thanks though.

It does bother me, though, when people seem to suggest doctors should work for free.

Why isn't free plumbing, or electrical work, or house painting, something that all American citizens should get for free if they can't afford it?

I wonder if enigma works for free, or if she thinks all Americans are entitled to her skills (whatever they may be) for free?

Yes, I have given people free advice in the field I'm trained and have a profession in.
You are a doctor and I would hope a decent human being,( and would hope would help this rockclimber if he needed help with his shoulder injury.)
I do think the medical system in the U.S falls short especially considering illegal immigrants and their anchor babies get free health care versus U.S citzens born here.
I am also personally aware of many medical students from abroad, and minorities that not only get a free ride for medical school but are accepted with MCAT scores 30 percent below other applicants.
Onceahardman , pro-bono to work to help a fellow rockclimber would have been a good-natured act of kindness.
I'm fairly certain you could have easily afford to do.
Blush


onceahardman


Apr 23, 2011, 1:32 PM
Post #20 of 47 (4585 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2459

Re: [enigma] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

enigma wrote:
onceahardman wrote:
Blush

Thanks, altelis. I don't help people for any accolades, and it's kind of embarrassing to be singled out. Thanks though.

It does bother me, though, when people seem to suggest doctors should work for free.

Why isn't free plumbing, or electrical work, or house painting, something that all American citizens should get for free if they can't afford it?

I wonder if enigma works for free, or if she thinks all Americans are entitled to her skills (whatever they may be) for free?

Yes, I have given people free advice in the field I'm trained and have a profession in.
You are a doctor and I would hope a decent human being,( and would hope would help this rockclimber if he needed help with his shoulder injury.)
I do think the medical system in the U.S falls short especially considering illegal immigrants and their anchor babies get free health care versus U.S citzens born here.
I am also personally aware of many medical students from abroad, and minorities that not only get a free ride for medical school but are accepted with MCAT scores 30 percent below other applicants.
Onceahardman , pro-bono to work to help a fellow rockclimber would have been a good-natured act of kindness.
I'm fairly certain you could have easily afford to do.
Blush


All of your points are unresponsive to anything I've said.

Also, I already have provided advice to the OP above. In case you missed it, here it is again:

onceahardman wrote:
You mentioned above that you "tried" some rotator cuff (RC) exercises a few years ago.

RC strengthening is very specific and targeted. It needs to be done EXACTLY correctly, and often in a very dedicated fashion, for a long time (months, rather than days), in order to judge whether it is effective or not.

That is why sports med doctors refer these patients for PT, rather than just handing out a sheet of exercises. They must be done right.

That said, there is much to be said for the "let your body heal itself" approach. The normal state of a health body is healing. But 3.5 years later, you could probably use some help.

Get some skilled hands and eyes on your problem. Find a good PT who treats athletes. If you don't have insurance, then pay privately for a few visits. Most PTs are pretty nice people who like helping others, but they also make their living with their brain, eyes, and hands, and deserve some compensation, same as anybody else.

My opinion is, he needs to have someone who knows what he or she is doing to look at this. That is exactly the advice I have provided.


enigma


Apr 23, 2011, 1:53 PM
Post #21 of 47 (4576 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2279

Re: [onceahardman] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Maybe you could be that someone to take a look at his shoulder injury.
That would be a altruistic act of kindness to a fellow rockclimber who has been on the road for years with pain. Angelic


altelis


Apr 23, 2011, 1:54 PM
Post #22 of 47 (4576 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 2168

Re: [enigma] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Enigma, you are so busy trying to derail this thread with ill-informed spray about the medical system in this country. All it serves to do is take away from the purpose of this thread- almost like those "anchor babies" and real medical care, huh?

Please, if you want to continue your "discussion" of the medical system, take it to the Soapbox or Community.

Your unrelated and uninformed ranting have blinded you to the fact that there is good and productive advice being given in this very thread.


onceahardman


Apr 23, 2011, 1:59 PM
Post #23 of 47 (4568 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2459

Re: [enigma] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I guess in your world, I should by people plane tickets from Oregon to New York so I can treat them pro bono.

I kindly suggest you knock it off.


anarkhos


Apr 23, 2011, 2:20 PM
Post #24 of 47 (4559 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 224

Re: [onceahardman] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Where in Oregon Cool


enigma


Apr 23, 2011, 2:22 PM
Post #25 of 47 (4552 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2279

Re: [onceahardman] 3 1/2 yr shoulder injury [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

onceahardman wrote:
I guess in your world, I should by people plane tickets from Oregon to New York so I can treat them pro bono.

I kindly suggest you knock it off.



Maybe he can drive, he is on the road.

Unless of course you stopped practicing medicine, which I'm thinking may be the case.

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : Injury Treatment and Prevention

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook