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gilles
Apr 27, 2011, 2:39 AM
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Ok guys, here's the deal,
I just recently have gotten into the traditional game, and I love it. I have been practicing placements, anchors, rappelling...
The thing with me is, I am not sure if I am ready to take on a multi-pitch 5.7, I know my climbing skills are there as I can sport climb 5.11, and I have a few single pitch 5.3's and 5.5's under my belt, but I am just a little nervous on venturing on my first trad adventure. Am I being over cautious or is this all normal "head games" that a beginner trad climber has to deal with?
If anyone has done this climb mentioned in the title, please let me know if this is a doable first multi-pitch lead. Also what gear should I bring, my rack is not huge but by the time I get there at the end of May
I shoould have this:
C4's: .5 - #3
Full set of stoppers
Set of hexentrics
various sized slings...may need more
9 quickdraws (not trad draws, but have extra biners to make them)
and just some other cords and webbing to make a belay anchor
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dbogardus
Apr 27, 2011, 3:53 AM
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I know this is going to come off as a cliché RC asshole post comment but it's not meant to be; if you don't know if you're ready for that level of climbing, particularly since you're a beginner, you probably aren't.
I began climbing in the gunks last spring. Throughout the steepest part of the learning curve you need to drill down on the basics and get solid fundamentals down rather than climb the most exciting route around or try to climb in a situation where you end up climbing at your limit (5.7 on gear is different than 5.11 on bolts, particularly if you spend 5 minutes placing a piece).
Do you know what you would do if you needed to bail? What you'd do if you dropped your belay device? Or if you needed to escape belay and find help?
I'm not saying you should know every page of every "how to climb" book written, or that you shouldn't go for it, but that you should be confident that you've prepared appropriately and that there's no reason to jump in over your head if you think that's a possibility. Ultimately it's up to you to ensure your own safety no matter how people respond on the internet.
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jcrew
Apr 27, 2011, 4:10 AM
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can you build a solid anchor? in a reasonable amount of time? if you can climb 5.11 moves, build solid anchors quickly, and have a partner that can at least get the gear out, then should probably be able to survive fingertrip on a warm, sunny day.
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gilles
Apr 27, 2011, 4:59 AM
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guess if you add in the lack of knowledge in self rescue even a 5.5 could turn into a nightmare. But I completely agree that if my confidence wasn't there for 5.7 I should start small. I am just thinking that it might be that i'm just overly nervous and need to just start climbing it. I feel confident in my anchor building and they do get built in a reasonable amount of time, and I feel good in placing cams and stoppers. Hexentrics I still need to play with. Soooooo, maybe Angels Fright 5.5 might be good to do first and just feel out the multipitch vibe.
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HippieLettuce
Apr 27, 2011, 5:03 AM
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I might suggest something like White Maidens Walk Way instead. Thats a perfect climb to start your life as a multipitch climber. Get an early start, bring a photocopy of the route topo, and don't forget a headlamp and a jacket. If your not already, I would familiarize yourself with the decent. People often seem to not find it and or sketch out over it, especially in the dark.
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dugl33
Apr 27, 2011, 5:20 AM
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gilles wrote: Ok guys, here's the deal, I just recently have gotten into the traditional game, and I love it. I have been practicing placements, anchors, rappelling... The thing with me is, I am not sure if I am ready to take on a multi-pitch 5.7, I know my climbing skills are there as I can sport climb 5.11, and I have a few single pitch 5.3's and 5.5's under my belt, but I am just a little nervous on venturing on my first trad adventure. Am I being over cautious or is this all normal "head games" that a beginner trad climber has to deal with? If anyone has done this climb mentioned in the title, please let me know if this is a doable first multi-pitch lead. Also what gear should I bring, my rack is not huge but by the time I get there at the end of May I shoould have this: C4's: .5 - #3 Full set of stoppers Set of hexentrics various sized slings...may need more 9 quickdraws (not trad draws, but have extra biners to make them) and just some other cords and webbing to make a belay anchor
If in doubt you could do "Fingertip Traverse" instead. Despite the humble rating its fun and worth doing. It will also give you a chance to experience and gain knowledge of the approach, some fun multi-pitch, and the friction route descent.
The first pitch of Fingertrip is a little stout for 5.7, in my opinion, especially if you don't climb many cracks. I would also pick up the .3 and .4 c4s. Also, a cordellete (or two) can help you not burn up all your slings and draws when you build your anchors. If you have access to more gear taking a few tcus and doubling up key c4 sizes (1 and 2, perhaps) would be nice. You'll end up burning a little gear building anchors (except for the first pitch.)
One other word of caution. Some routes at Tahquitz have some pretty dicey fixed pitons. Fingertrip has a fixed knifeblade that I'd be surprised if it would hold a fall. So, point being don't casually lob onto one thinking its going to stop you.
Good luck.
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jt512
Apr 27, 2011, 5:33 AM
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gilles wrote: The thing with me is, I am not sure if I am ready to take on a multi-pitch 5.7, I know my climbing skills are there as I can sport climb 5.11, and I have a few single pitch 5.3's and 5.5's under my belt, but I am just a little nervous on venturing on my first trad adventure.
Part of trad climbing is knowing when you're ready for the the next step. If you don't know if you're ready—that is, if you can handle the various contingencies at the next level—then you're not.
Your sport climbing grade is irrelevant. You're trying to jump from single-pitch 5.5 to Tahquitz multi-pitch 5.7. Try a couple 1- and 2-pitch 5.6s and 5.7s. If those go well, then you may find that you have the confidence to try a longer multi-pitch 5.7.
Route finding at Tahquitz is difficult, and you can find yourself inadvertently in 5.11R/X territory before you even realize you're off route. Tahquitz is no joke. Bulid up to it. Get multi-pitch practice on 2-pitch trad climbs first. When you're ready to tackle a long Tahquitz climb, you won't be asking about it on rockclimbing.com; you'll know.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Apr 27, 2011, 5:33 AM)
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bennydh
Apr 27, 2011, 7:22 AM
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jt512 wrote: gilles wrote: The thing with me is, I am not sure if I am ready to take on a multi-pitch 5.7, I know my climbing skills are there as I can sport climb 5.11, and I have a few single pitch 5.3's and 5.5's under my belt, but I am just a little nervous on venturing on my first trad adventure. Part of trad climbing is knowing when you're ready for the the next step. If you don't know if you're ready—that is, if you can handle the various contingencies at the next level—then you're not. Your sport climbing grade is irrelevant. You're trying to jump from single-pitch 5.5 to Tahquitz multi-pitch 5.7. Try a couple 1- and 2-pitch 5.6s and 5.7s. If those go well, then you may find that you have the confidence to try a longer multi-pitch 5.7. Route finding at Tahquitz is difficult, and you can find yourself inadvertently in 5.11R/X territory before you even realize you're off route. Tahquitz is no joke. Bulid up to it. Get multi-pitch practice on 2-pitch trad climbs first. When you're ready to tackle a long Tahquitz climb, you won't be asking about it on rockclimbing.com; you'll know. Jay
Jay's advice is pretty sound on this.
Jay, thanks for posting something more constructive than ::plonk::
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yokese
Apr 27, 2011, 8:40 AM
Post #9 of 21
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If you have the chance, go with someone who has solid experience in multipitch climbing, and follow him/her for your first couple of multipitch routes.
Albeit I agree that 5.7 in Tahquitz may feel harder than the rating if you're not used to granite, if you can consistently lead 5.11, I'd say that the difficulty of the climbing is not gonna be the most critical factor.
As already suggested, if you can't find a ropegun and don't feel ready for Fingertrip, another option is Fingertip traverse. It's easier, with an interesting start off a tree, and shares the last two pitches with Fingertrip. Better yet, nicer than Fingertip traverse, and still easier than Fingertrip, is Angel's Fright.
The three routes converge in lunch ledge. From there, I always finished in two pitches*, the first one straight up to the beginning of the left diagonal crack, and the second one following the crack up to bush, and then onto the friction slab with one bolt, but I'm unsure to which route these two pitches belong.
By the way, I've seen more than one "5.10 climber" (whatever that means) having a bad time in the last pitch 5.4 friction slab.
* except for the very first time, that I did it in one single pitch with horrible rope-drag that almost pulled my harness down to my knees...
(This post was edited by yokese on Apr 27, 2011, 8:46 AM)
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viciado
Apr 27, 2011, 9:32 AM
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+1 on the mystical sounding "when you are ready, you will know."
+1 on getting mileage on 1 and 2 pitch routes of similar grade and style. You will gain an eye for placements and be better able to evaluate and manage the risks involved. These are things you cannot learn from a book. A book can give you the basic tools, but experience is really the only way to learn the "art" that goes with the "science".
I too cannot emphasize enough how valuable it is if you can find someone with experience who is willing to take you with them.
(This post was edited by viciado on Apr 27, 2011, 9:33 AM)
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rtwilli4
Apr 27, 2011, 10:09 AM
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It's really a decision you have to make for yourself.
I personally think that before anyone goes climbing outdoors they should understand the basics of climbing which include, but are not limited to:
- proper gear placement
- building a SRENE anchor
- rope management (belayiing and climbing)
- how to descend a route safely
- self rescue
Obviously self rescue is a huge all encompassing term but the techniques you might need largely depend on what climb you are doing. Prussiking up a rope, escaping a belay, building a 3:1 are all things that you might not ever have to do... but if you ever DO need to know these skills and don't then you are basically relying on someone else to help you out. Not a good situation to be in.
Depending on how steep the route in question is, how long it is, and the descent options available, you might be OK without some of those skills but that's a decision you have to make.
If you are really prepared to go out and get on a route, the grade of the climb doesn't matter all that much. You can't go climb a 5.7 safely just because you are a 5.11 sport climber. But you CAN climb a 5.7 safely if you are a 5.7 climber with enough skills to put the odds in your favor.
As far as the head games go, it's kind of a fine line. If you really are a 5.11ish climber then you know good and well that you shouldn't be falling off of a 5.7. But then again, 5.7 can quickly feel like 5.11 if you aren't ready for it so don't think that you can make up for technical skills and general climbing safety by doing a climb that is graded easier than what you climb.
Learn the systems you need to know to make you safe and then you won't need to come on the internet to ask if you are ready. You'll know that you are ready.
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gilles
Apr 28, 2011, 3:54 PM
Post #12 of 21
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Thanks for all the advice guys. I wasn't trying to be a pompous jerk by relating sport grades with trad grades, was merely trying to state my highest ability in relation to sport climbing, hoping there might be little overlap...
But I talked to some buddies who are a little more experienced who are down to take me up Angels Fright or Fingertrip, so all in all I think its gonna work out. Understand that I am a greenhorn when it comes to trad climbing and there are alot of variables that can make a noob nervous about his first multi pitch. But thanks again.
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rtwilli4
Apr 28, 2011, 6:21 PM
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gilles wrote: Thanks for all the advice guys. I wasn't trying to be a pompous jerk by relating sport grades with trad grades, was merely trying to state my highest ability in relation to sport climbing, hoping there might be little overlap... But I talked to some buddies who are a little more experienced who are down to take me up Angels Fright or Fingertrip, so all in all I think its gonna work out. Understand that I am a greenhorn when it comes to trad climbing and there are alot of variables that can make a noob nervous about his first multi pitch. But thanks again.
If you climb sport then telling people you're sport grade is the only way to describe your climbing ability. Saying you climb 5.11 gave everyone an idea of your abilities... you weren't being a jerk.
The only reason people tell you not to compare the climbs is because that gets a lot of people in trouble. Most 5.11 sport climbers just hear 5.7 and thing "easy." Just not the case sometimes, so I always try to say so.
Glad that you've got some people taking you up there. I'm willing to bet that there will be a few times that at the end of the day, you'll say "I probably could have done that myself, but I'm glad I went with more experienced climbers."
Have fun, pay attention, enjoy.
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surfergirl
Jun 1, 2011, 11:27 PM
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Fingertrip is not good for a beginner leader. Angel's Fright is easy, except that the last pitch on runout slab can be scary given the amount of rope drag that you will very likely have. It's not so much the climbing itself but getting the pro right that will be your issue.
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pbcowboy77
Jun 9, 2011, 9:34 PM
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Finger Trip was my first lead on gear. I lead every pitch and only had followed 1 other 5.7 trad before that. It's a good first multi Pitch climb. You can belay on ledges the whole way up if you link P2 and P3. If you're pulling 5.11, I think you'll be fine. Just use your head and don't do stupid shit...
Big part is being confident. If you think you can pull the moves and you're good with your gear placing skills and building anchors, then I say do it.
Yer gunna die!!!!
Sorry, I had to say it...
Hope this helped.
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enigma
Jun 9, 2011, 11:21 PM
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pbcowboy77 wrote: Finger Trip was my first lead on gear. I lead every pitch and only had followed 1 other 5.7 trad before that. It's a good first multi Pitch climb. You can belay on ledges the whole way up if you link P2 and P3. If you're pulling 5.11, I think you'll be fine. Just use your head and don't do stupid shit... Big part is being confident. If you think you can pull the moves and you're good with your gear placing skills and building anchors, then I say do it. Yer gunna die!!!! Sorry, I had to say it... Hope this helped.
Well you just got a golden seal of approval !
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socalclimber
Jun 10, 2011, 11:20 AM
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White Maiden is a great route, but as the man said get an early start. It's the closest thing to an Alpine route at Tahquitz. Route finding can be problematic if you have not dealt with that before.
Get your feet wet first, then jump in the pond.
It's a super fun route.
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gilles
Jun 10, 2011, 4:55 PM
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Cool, thanks for all the advice guys. I ended up doing Graham Crackers (5.6) on Suicide as my first multi pitch lead. I am hooked and I absolutely feel confident in going on with it. My follower told me the pro was set perfectly, except that I should maybe use more runners on some placements, but thats part of the learning curve. I will keep practicing my knots and anchoring during free time, and keep my nose in Freedom of the Hills, and Climbing Anchors book. I suppose I will stick to 5.6 and 5.7 for the next handful of climbs until I am completely confident with all technique.
Trad=Rad
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donald949
Jun 10, 2011, 9:08 PM
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gilles wrote: Cool, thanks for all the advice guys. I ended up doing Graham Crackers (5.6) on Suicide as my first multi pitch lead. I am hooked and I absolutely feel confident in going on with it. My follower told me the pro was set perfectly, except that I should maybe use more runners on some placements, but thats part of the learning curve. I will keep practicing my knots and anchoring during free time, and keep my nose in Freedom of the Hills, and Climbing Anchors book. I suppose I will stick to 5.6 and 5.7 for the next handful of climbs until I am completely confident with all technique. Trad=Rad
and congrats.
and go do it again.
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alleyehave
Jun 11, 2011, 2:24 AM
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gilles wrote: Cool, thanks for all the advice guys. I ended up doing Graham Crackers (5.6) on Suicide as my first multi pitch lead. I am hooked and I absolutely feel confident in going on with it. My follower told me the pro was set perfectly, except that I should maybe use more runners on some placements, but thats part of the learning curve. I will keep practicing my knots and anchoring during free time, and keep my nose in Freedom of the Hills, and Climbing Anchors book. I suppose I will stick to 5.6 and 5.7 for the next handful of climbs until I am completely confident with all technique. Trad=Rad
Congrats man, I dig that climb actually, the second pitch is a hoot. Try angels fright or fingertip traverse next, but if its on a weekend you'll wait in line.
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