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So, uh, stretching. I'm getting mixed information...
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sungam


Apr 27, 2011, 8:14 AM
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So, uh, stretching. I'm getting mixed information...
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So, what's the deal with stretching after warming up but before training?
I had always been under the strong impression that the ideal was to warm up well then in turn hold each relevant muscle in a relatively stretched stretch for 10-15 seconds (3 times each?), then train.

Some dude who is doing his 2 year masters in PE or something told me the other day that that's not ideal on a small muscle like your forearms because stretching causes tearing or something, and that it is for more of an issue for small muscles.

But if I don't stretch, I feel like I am going to shred my tendons.

I feel like I don't understand the situation. Please tell me what to do to maximize being awesome at climbing hard while also being totally rad at not getting injured.

Many thanks.


shockabuku


Apr 27, 2011, 8:22 AM
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Re: [sungam] So, uh, stretching. I'm getting mixed information... [In reply to]
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sungam wrote:
So, what's the deal with stretching after warming up but before training?
I had always been under the strong impression that the ideal was to warm up well then in turn hold each relevant muscle in a relatively stretched stretch for 10-15 seconds (3 times each?), then train.

Some dude who is doing his 2 year masters in PE or something told me the other day that that's not ideal on a small muscle like your forearms because stretching causes tearing or something, and that it is for more of an issue for small muscles.

But if I don't stretch, I feel like I am going to shred my tendons.

I feel like I don't understand the situation. Please tell me what to do to maximize being awesome at climbing hard while also being totally rad at not getting injured.

Many thanks.

Sounds like your warm-up isn't warming up those particular muscles. Most exercises don't limber up my hands/forearms; I have to climb easy, then moderate, and usually one route close to my limit to warm up completely. But then I'm old. I think at some point my entire workout will consist of warming up and from that point on I'll only get weaker.


sungam


Apr 27, 2011, 8:29 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] So, uh, stretching. I'm getting mixed information... [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
sungam wrote:
So, what's the deal with stretching after warming up but before training?
I had always been under the strong impression that the ideal was to warm up well then in turn hold each relevant muscle in a relatively stretched stretch for 10-15 seconds (3 times each?), then train.

Some dude who is doing his 2 year masters in PE or something told me the other day that that's not ideal on a small muscle like your forearms because stretching causes tearing or something, and that it is for more of an issue for small muscles.

But if I don't stretch, I feel like I am going to shred my tendons.

I feel like I don't understand the situation. Please tell me what to do to maximize being awesome at climbing hard while also being totally rad at not getting injured.

Many thanks.

Sounds like your warm-up isn't warming up those particular muscles. Most exercises don't limber up my hands/forearms; I have to climb easy, then moderate, and usually one route close to my limit to warm up completely. But then I'm old. I think at some point my entire workout will consist of warming up and from that point on I'll only get weaker.
I usually warm up by bouldering around (circuits or something) enough to get a kinda pump and holding it there for like 5 mins or so, then do a couple of moderate problems.

I'm mostly asking if stretching is as bad as this dude made it out to be.


rtwilli4


Apr 27, 2011, 8:35 AM
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Re: [sungam] So, uh, stretching. I'm getting mixed information... [In reply to]
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Stretching is not bad at all.

What your friend means is that an aggressive static stretch actually stresses the muscle, and there have been tests done that show that muscles are weaker, and preform more poorly after static stretching.

I tend to do a lot of dynamic stretching and movement before, during and after my warmup, which consists of easy traverses, controlled bouldering movements and easy routes. Then at the end of my workout, during and after the cool down, I do A LOT of static stretching.

Check out this thread on the topic:

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...0stretching;#2008357


sungam


Apr 27, 2011, 9:05 AM
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Re: [rtwilli4] So, uh, stretching. I'm getting mixed information... [In reply to]
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Cool. That clears it up subatantually. I clicked through a couple of articles via the NYT one and yerp, looks like I'm moving over to dynamic stretching. Thinking about it I kinda already do dynamic stretches, it's just what feels natural to loosen up that way.


rtwilli4


Apr 27, 2011, 9:11 AM
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Re: [sungam] So, uh, stretching. I'm getting mixed information... [In reply to]
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Best part of that post I linked above:

In reply to:
Blah, stretching is useless IMO. I have climbed over 4,000 pitches in my life and I haven’t stretched before any of them yet I have never been injured from not doing so. When I am required warm up for military activities I find it only consumes needed energy and reduces my performance in the task to come. My warm up routes are my project routes. If I start on something easier I lose much needed energy that I need on my projects and thus my performance is decreased. Overall the best “stretch” or “warm up” is your normal climbing grade. Just jump right into it. day.

Hmmm, I wonder what RC.com military man would say such things?


climber49er


May 4, 2011, 6:21 AM
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Re: [rtwilli4] So, uh, stretching. I'm getting mixed information... [In reply to]
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I don't have time to source it right now, but I've heard a lot of talk about stretching being counterproductive lately.

I personally almost never stretch, I simply start my activities light and intensify as I go.


onceahardman


May 5, 2011, 6:19 PM
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Re: [sungam] So, uh, stretching. I'm getting mixed information... [In reply to]
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sungam wrote:
So, what's the deal with stretching after warming up but before training?
I had always been under the strong impression that the ideal was to warm up well then in turn hold each relevant muscle in a relatively stretched stretch for 10-15 seconds (3 times each?), then train.

Some dude who is doing his 2 year masters in PE or something told me the other day that that's not ideal on a small muscle like your forearms because stretching causes tearing or something, and that it is for more of an issue for small muscles.

But if I don't stretch, I feel like I am going to shred my tendons.

I feel like I don't understand the situation. Please tell me what to do to maximize being awesome at climbing hard while also being totally rad at not getting injured.

Many thanks.

You are getting mixed results mostly because older, traditional training methods are being slowly supplanted by more science-based methods.

First, why do you want to stretch? Because you like the way it feels? Fine, go for it. But a search on Google Scholar including the terms "stretching" and "injury prevention", should convince you that there exists NO evidence that stretching has any effect at all on preventing injuries. The eveidence is just non-existant. Perhaps a better study needs to be done, but so far, it appears stretching does not prevent injuries.


saint_john


May 6, 2011, 7:02 AM
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Re: [onceahardman] So, uh, stretching. I'm getting mixed information... [In reply to]
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onceahardman wrote:
sungam wrote:
So, what's the deal with stretching after warming up but before training?
I had always been under the strong impression that the ideal was to warm up well then in turn hold each relevant muscle in a relatively stretched stretch for 10-15 seconds (3 times each?), then train.

Some dude who is doing his 2 year masters in PE or something told me the other day that that's not ideal on a small muscle like your forearms because stretching causes tearing or something, and that it is for more of an issue for small muscles.

But if I don't stretch, I feel like I am going to shred my tendons.

I feel like I don't understand the situation. Please tell me what to do to maximize being awesome at climbing hard while also being totally rad at not getting injured.

Many thanks.

You are getting mixed results mostly because older, traditional training methods are being slowly supplanted by more science-based methods.

First, why do you want to stretch? Because you like the way it feels? Fine, go for it. But a search on Google Scholar including the terms "stretching" and "injury prevention", should convince you that there exists NO evidence that stretching has any effect at all on preventing injuries. The eveidence is just non-existant. Perhaps a better study needs to be done, but so far, it appears stretching does not prevent injuries.


Everyone is different. Some people need a warm up, cool down and stretching. Some people can leap out of bad and crank hard with no ill effects.
I have a friend who can jump on his bike and hammer while I need 20 minutes of warming up before my body is reday to sustain a hard effort. Likewise, I need a good warm up and stretch before I can climb hard. If I don't warm up properly I'll burn out really quickly. For me, stretching seems to be very benificial.


onceahardman


May 6, 2011, 2:50 PM
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Re: [saint_john] So, uh, stretching. I'm getting mixed information... [In reply to]
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saint_john wrote:

Everyone is different. Some people need a warm up, cool down and stretching. Some people can leap out of bad and crank hard with no ill effects.
I have a friend who can jump on his bike and hammer while I need 20 minutes of warming up before my body is reday to sustain a hard effort. Likewise, I need a good warm up and stretch before I can climb hard. If I don't warm up properly I'll burn out really quickly. For me, stretching seems to be very benificial.

I agree, everyone is different.

However, if a significant number of people benefit from stretching (such that it reduces the chance of injury), then it would show up in the data for a properly randomized study.

Also, "warming up", is one thing. "Stretching", is something else.

There actually is some research showing sustained stretching decreasing muscle power.


Grizvok


Jun 9, 2011, 8:54 PM
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Re: [onceahardman] So, uh, stretching. I'm getting mixed information... [In reply to]
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onceahardman wrote:
saint_john wrote:

Everyone is different. Some people need a warm up, cool down and stretching. Some people can leap out of bad and crank hard with no ill effects.
I have a friend who can jump on his bike and hammer while I need 20 minutes of warming up before my body is reday to sustain a hard effort. Likewise, I need a good warm up and stretch before I can climb hard. If I don't warm up properly I'll burn out really quickly. For me, stretching seems to be very benificial.

I agree, everyone is different.

However, if a significant number of people benefit from stretching (such that it reduces the chance of injury), then it would show up in the data for a properly randomized study.

Also, "warming up", is one thing. "Stretching", is something else.

There actually is some research showing sustained stretching decreasing muscle power.

And increases injury risk.


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