|
gunkiemike
May 30, 2011, 6:06 PM
Post #26 of 33
(1598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2266
|
So the larger ring has to snake around the backside of the block(s) that comprise the anchor. Murphy says that's where it'll get stuck.
I also wonder if the rapping stress (and pressure from the blocking biner perhaps) could drive the smaller ring through the larger ring and then maybe it has trouble backing out of there.
Otherwise you are to be commended for trying to keep the peaks litter-free.
|
|
|
|
|
MarmotPrince
May 30, 2011, 9:37 PM
Post #27 of 33
(1568 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2011
Posts: 6
|
qwert wrote: Ok, now it makes sense what you are trying to explain. Safe? I wouldnt want to rappel of a roll of tape on the floor, but other than that i dont see a big issue for the rappel (assuming you use proper knots and so on). However i do see some safety issues when you have to free solo terrain that you deemed steep enough to warrant a rappel. If you have to free solo it and then down climb it anyways, why bother with rapping over it first? To clean it or to place some tickmarks so that you know where to step/grab? Also that takes a lot of time. Rigging that thing, rappelling, pulling around a bit, climbing up, stuffing it into your backpack and finally downclimbing … Just leave a sling, find a feature to rappel from directly, or find another way to go down. qwert
This isn't a scramble anymore...I've found once you get even a little climbing skill, the gap between what you can freeclimb and downclimb safely explodes. You just can't use your feet. Even if there was a spotter, which there isn't, it's still too risky to use. There is no way I would downclimb a low 5 with any exposure. I wonder if elite climbers who can do 5.12 or higher are able to downclimb 5.6 or 5.7.
Good points about time, of course I downclimb whenever possible, so if I pull out my rope there will be no other safe way to go down. If this method is reliable, it will be just about as fast as a regular rappel.
Another good point about the little rappel ring going through the big one, again only experience will be the judge.
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
May 30, 2011, 11:40 PM
Post #28 of 33
(1547 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
MarmotPrince wrote: This isn't a scramble anymore...I've found once you get even a little climbing skill, the gap between what you can freeclimb and downclimb safely explodes. You just can't use your feet. Even if there was a spotter, which there isn't, it's still too risky to use. There is no way I would downclimb a low 5 with any exposure. I wonder if elite climbers who can do 5.12 or higher are able to downclimb 5.6 or 5.7.
Yes, strong climbers down-climb much harder than 5.7 all the time. IIRC, Honnold onsight down-soloed a multipitch 5.10 some months back.
At the kind of grades you are talking about, you should be able to reverse anything you climb up with a little practice and if you can't, your only way down is up and that is an unnecessarily dangerous position to put yourself in.
|
|
|
|
|
rocknice2
May 31, 2011, 12:30 AM
Post #29 of 33
(1540 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 1221
|
Your system will work safley but like someone else said there is lots of room for snafu's.
I would just carry a single 7.2 60m.
Another option using your short rope is,
Put one end of the rope around your anchor.
Tie a knot on a bite and clip a biner to it.
clip the biner to the other end of the rope and throw that end down.
This forms a girth hitch with a biner closing it. You can have your large ring pre-rigged and just pass the long end of the rope through it.
You still need a tag line to pull the ring/biner down .
This would significantly lessen the snag quotient
|
|
|
|
|
spikeddem
May 31, 2011, 1:51 AM
Post #30 of 33
(1519 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2007
Posts: 6319
|
MarmotPrince wrote: qwert wrote: Ok, now it makes sense what you are trying to explain. Safe? I wouldnt want to rappel of a roll of tape on the floor, but other than that i dont see a big issue for the rappel (assuming you use proper knots and so on). However i do see some safety issues when you have to free solo terrain that you deemed steep enough to warrant a rappel. If you have to free solo it and then down climb it anyways, why bother with rapping over it first? To clean it or to place some tickmarks so that you know where to step/grab? Also that takes a lot of time. Rigging that thing, rappelling, pulling around a bit, climbing up, stuffing it into your backpack and finally downclimbing … Just leave a sling, find a feature to rappel from directly, or find another way to go down. qwert This isn't a scramble anymore...I've found once you get even a little climbing skill, the gap between what you can freeclimb and downclimb safely explodes. You just can't use your feet. Even if there was a spotter, which there isn't, it's still too risky to use. There is no way I would downclimb a low 5 with any exposure. I wonder if elite climbers who can do 5.12 or higher are able to downclimb 5.6 or 5.7.
IMHO+generally speaking, if you can't downclimb the moves on a route before the crux you really don't belong on the route.
I'm not sure if your 5.12+ being able to downclimb 5.6 or 5.7 is a serious question, but yes. Being able to reverse moves (all the way to the ground if need be) is an important aspect of not only soloing, but also trad climbing.
Downclimbing can be practiced, just like other aspects of climbing. It feels awkward until you do it and get better at it.
|
|
|
|
|
qwert
May 31, 2011, 7:56 AM
Post #31 of 33
(1482 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 2394
|
MarmotPrince wrote: qwert wrote: Ok, now it makes sense what you are trying to explain. Safe? I wouldnt want to rappel of a roll of tape on the floor, but other than that i dont see a big issue for the rappel (assuming you use proper knots and so on). However i do see some safety issues when you have to free solo terrain that you deemed steep enough to warrant a rappel. If you have to free solo it and then down climb it anyways, why bother with rapping over it first? To clean it or to place some tickmarks so that you know where to step/grab? Also that takes a lot of time. Rigging that thing, rappelling, pulling around a bit, climbing up, stuffing it into your backpack and finally downclimbing … Just leave a sling, find a feature to rappel from directly, or find another way to go down. qwert This isn't a scramble anymore...I've found once you get even a little climbing skill, the gap between what you can freeclimb and downclimb safely explodes. You just can't use your feet. Even if there was a spotter, which there isn't, it's still too risky to use. There is no way I would downclimb a low 5 with any exposure. I wonder if elite climbers who can do 5.12 or higher are able to downclimb 5.6 or 5.7. Good points about time, of course I downclimb whenever possible, so if I pull out my rope there will be no other safe way to go down. If this method is reliable, it will be just about as fast as a regular rappel. Another good point about the little rappel ring going through the big one, again only experience will be the judge. 
qwert
|
|
|
|
|
rtwilli4
May 31, 2011, 10:38 AM
Post #32 of 33
(1468 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 1867
|
MarmotPrince wrote: qwert wrote: Ok, now it makes sense what you are trying to explain. Safe? I wouldnt want to rappel of a roll of tape on the floor, but other than that i dont see a big issue for the rappel (assuming you use proper knots and so on). However i do see some safety issues when you have to free solo terrain that you deemed steep enough to warrant a rappel. If you have to free solo it and then down climb it anyways, why bother with rapping over it first? To clean it or to place some tickmarks so that you know where to step/grab? Also that takes a lot of time. Rigging that thing, rappelling, pulling around a bit, climbing up, stuffing it into your backpack and finally downclimbing … Just leave a sling, find a feature to rappel from directly, or find another way to go down. qwert This isn't a scramble anymore...I've found once you get even a little climbing skill, the gap between what you can freeclimb and downclimb safely explodes. You just can't use your feet. Even if there was a spotter, which there isn't, it's still too risky to use. There is no way I would downclimb a low 5 with any exposure. I wonder if elite climbers who can do 5.12 or higher are able to downclimb 5.6 or 5.7. Good points about time, of course I downclimb whenever possible, so if I pull out my rope there will be no other safe way to go down. If this method is reliable, it will be just about as fast as a regular rappel. Another good point about the little rappel ring going through the big one, again only experience will be the judge.
I don't know any 5.12+ climbers that don't regularly down climb 5.10. Shit, I can even down climb 5.10 when I have to. IMHO if you can't down climb low 5th class w/o a rope then you need a bit of practice. It's part of climbing, and it sounds like it s a big part of the climbing that you do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
