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RMC
May 31, 2011, 11:41 AM
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European death knot.......
Q: can i use a 10mm and a 8.9mm to make a safe rap? or should I use like diameter rope's
for example, (2) 10mm
RMC
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notapplicable
May 31, 2011, 12:00 PM
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Yes, you will be fine using the EDK on those ropes. I've done it and all the same rules apply as when using same diameter ropes: Well dressed knot and long tails.
Here is a good post on the subject with a recommendation (and pictures) on how to tie the knot in a case where the ropes are of different diameters - http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2454726#2454726
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rtwilli4
May 31, 2011, 12:06 PM
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notapplicable wrote: Yes, you will be fine using the EDK on those ropes. I've done it and all the same rules apply as when using same diameter ropes: Well dressed knot and long tails. Here is a good post on the subject with a recommendation (and pictures) on how to tie the knot in a case where the ropes are of different diameters - http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2454726#2454726
+1
I use the EDK w/ a 9.4 and 8.3 all the time. Dress it well and leave long tails.
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RMC
May 31, 2011, 12:38 PM
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Thanks for the link. Question, is there a right way and wrong way to tie the EDK? I thought a simple overhand knot + a additional knot on the smaller rope would do. Right?
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billl7
May 31, 2011, 12:40 PM
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I use the EDK to join 10+mm and 5.5mm cord in the way shown in the linked pic with the skinny cord having to roll over the fat if it were to capsize.
Once I got the willies though. Just before I tightened / cynched up the knot, I was able to pull on the 5.5 and have it easily slide through the 'knot'.
Yes - well dress it and tighten / cynch it down good before relying on it. I've also gotten in the habit of tieing the tail of the 5.5 to the other tail using half a double fishermans. Doesn't add much bulk and still allows the knot to function during the pull as intended.
Bill L
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viciado
May 31, 2011, 12:41 PM
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Yes, there is a proper way... from the above linked post:
rgold wrote: I think the EDK wins hands-down for non-rescue work. It rides over obstructions (this has been tested) and is easy to tie and untie. I don't know if I'd want to use it with a 10.5mm rope and a 6mm pull-cord, but with any two climbing-size ropes of different diameters it is fine, and, tied correctly, should in principle (there are no tests that I know of) be less prone to rolling than the EDK with two equal diameter ropes. It is easy to add an extra backup overhand (there is a right and wrong way to do this) in case one is concerned, for example if the ropes are soaked. Correct way of tying with unequal diameter ropes:  Correct way of adding overhand back-up:  The overhand back-up can, of course, be used with two ropes of the same diameter. In order to identify the correct strand to use, draw the two load-bearing strands apart (as if the knot were being rapped on) and note which turn of the knot they most immediately pull on. This is the strand that should be used for the back-up knot. Caution: the ends in these photos are short so as to fit in the frame. Proper end-length is the length of the forearm.
(This post was edited by viciado on May 31, 2011, 12:43 PM)
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michael1245
Jun 1, 2011, 6:35 PM
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um, how do you tie a EDK?
I actually don't know how to, and can't find any instructions on how to do it.
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michael1245
Jun 1, 2011, 6:37 PM
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this?
http://ozultimate.com/canyoning/knots/one-sided_overhand/
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jakedatc
Jun 1, 2011, 7:16 PM
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clicky.. yep but see Rgolds pics near the top for different diameters.
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Jun 1, 2011, 8:02 PM)
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jt512
Jun 1, 2011, 7:24 PM
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jakedatc wrote: clicky.. yep.
Except that the tails in those pics are too short. Eighteen inch tails is the norm.
Jay
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bearbreeder
Jun 1, 2011, 7:33 PM
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THE BOTTOM LINE
The reality is that all three of the methods for joining two ropes for rappelling that I tested were PLENTY strong for the forces seen during a typical rappel (i.e., bodyweight-plus, taking into account some shock loading when bouncing around, jiggering with tangled lines, not smooth rappelling technique, etc).
For what it's worth, when I started climbing I always used the Double Fisherman's, but now I've fully converted to the Euro Death Knot—it's fast to tie, plenty strong, less likely to get hung up when pulling and easy to untie. And finally, no matter what rap knot I tie, I always leave long tails (like at least 12 inches).
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/journal/climb-qclab/qclab/qc-lab-what-is-the-best-rappel-knot/
Seilschwanz von mindestens 30 cm, am schwierigsten nach Belastung zu öffnen
Tail rope of at least 30 cm, the most difficult to open on load
(Quickly made, but difficult to solve).
http://www.gudelius.de/spst.htm
(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Jun 1, 2011, 7:36 PM)
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michael1245
Jun 1, 2011, 7:38 PM
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MY GOD that is the scariest looking knot I have ever seen in my life.
haven't had the chance, or should I say been on a climb that required joining two ropes just yet.
man, that's it? wow.
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jakedatc
Jun 1, 2011, 7:43 PM
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michael1245 wrote: MY GOD that is the scariest looking knot I have ever seen in my life. haven't had the chance, or should I say been on a climb that required joining two ropes just yet. man, that's it? wow.
usually put another overhand on at least one of the strands to keep out any chance of it inverting.
for 60m rappels it is pretty standard.. it avoids snagging and is fairly easy to untie afterward.
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rgold
Jun 1, 2011, 7:51 PM
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jakedatc wrote: clicky.. yep.
Well...sort of. The picture show two ropes of different diameters and gets the knot "wrong" for that situation. Compare with my pictures that were reposted just above.
In reply to: usually put another overhand on at least one of the strands to keep out any chance of it inverting.
Right...sort of. Note that one strand makes much more sense than the other. Again, see my pictures.
(This post was edited by rgold on Jun 1, 2011, 7:53 PM)
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jakedatc
Jun 1, 2011, 8:01 PM
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rgold wrote: jakedatc wrote: clicky.. yep. Well...sort of. The picture show two ropes of different diameters and gets the knot "wrong" for that situation. Compare with my pictures that were reposted just above. In reply to: usually put another overhand on at least one of the strands to keep out any chance of it inverting. Right...sort of. Note that one strand makes much more sense than the other. Again, see my pictures.
ahh yes. I was mostly indicating that it was the EDK not that it was correct for different diameters.. i'll edit that.
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jt512
Jun 1, 2011, 8:04 PM
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michael1245 wrote: MY GOD that is the scariest looking knot I have ever seen in my life.
That's why they call it the Euro Death Knot.
Jay
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