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It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now
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veganclimber


Jun 8, 2011, 10:00 AM
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It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now
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http://news.yahoo.com/...usa_debt_bondholders

In reply to:
Republican lawmakers are "playing with fire" by contemplating even a brief debt default as a means to force deeper government spending cuts, an adviser to China's central bank said on Wednesday.

The idea of a technical default -- essentially delaying interest payments for a few days -- has gained backing from a growing number of mainstream Republicans who see it as a price worth paying if it forces the White House to slash spending, Reuters reported on Tuesday.

Is there anybody on the planet, other than a republican, that thinks this is a good idea?


traddad


Jun 8, 2011, 10:51 AM
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Re: [veganclimber] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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Perhaps Dr. Evil?




ChuteandClimb


Jun 8, 2011, 11:44 AM
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Re: [veganclimber] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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veganclimber wrote:
Is there anybody on the planet, other than a republican, that thinks this is a good idea?

hopefully not, and they all decide to slash spending to avoid it


veganclimber


Jun 8, 2011, 11:55 AM
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Re: [ChuteandClimb] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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ChuteandClimb wrote:
veganclimber wrote:
Is there anybody on the planet, other than a republican, that thinks this is a good idea?

hopefully not, and they all decide to slash spending to avoid it

Personally, I hope they don't cut spending by as much as a penny unless it is accompanied by tax increases. There is simply no way any sane person can argue that taxes on the highest income rates should be at historically low levels right now.

Another thing. This is not the way to cut spending. They are holding the country hostage right now. Cut spending or we fuck up the country. That's the republicans strategy right now.


caughtinside


Jun 8, 2011, 1:43 PM
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Re: [veganclimber] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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veganclimber wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/...usa_debt_bondholders

In reply to:
Republican lawmakers are "playing with fire" by contemplating even a brief debt default as a means to force deeper government spending cuts, an adviser to China's central bank said on Wednesday.

The idea of a technical default -- essentially delaying interest payments for a few days -- has gained backing from a growing number of mainstream Republicans who see it as a price worth paying if it forces the White House to slash spending, Reuters reported on Tuesday.

Is there anybody on the planet, other than a republican, that thinks this is a good idea?

Let's see... damage our credit rating when we are already 14 trillion in the hole so that borrowing more will be more expensive and more difficult...

no. not a good idea.


yanqui


Jun 8, 2011, 2:58 PM
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Re: [veganclimber] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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Are those the same penny-pinching Republicans that raised the debt ceiling something like seven different times during the Bush administration?


gunkiemike


Jun 8, 2011, 7:47 PM
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Re: [caughtinside] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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The Chinese have the US by the 'nads. If they dump their US debt onto world credit markets, it's bye bye Western economy.

I'm not an economist. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


veganclimber


Jun 8, 2011, 8:25 PM
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Re: [yanqui] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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yanqui wrote:
Are those the same penny-pinching Republicans that raised the debt ceiling something like seven different times during the Bush administration?

Remember, deficits didn't matter back in those days. Besides, they had really important things to spend money on. Like invading Iraq for no reason whatsoever.


veganclimber


Jun 8, 2011, 8:27 PM
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Re: [gunkiemike] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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gunkiemike wrote:
The Chinese have the US by the 'nads. If they dump their US debt onto world credit markets, it's bye bye Western economy.

I'm not an economist. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I'm no economist either, but I believe that if the Chinese dumped all our debt they would screw their own economy as well.


ubu


Jun 9, 2011, 4:03 AM
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Re: [gunkiemike] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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gunkiemike wrote:
The Chinese have the US by the 'nads. If they dump their US debt onto world credit markets, it's bye bye Western economy.

I'm not an economist. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


China holds less than 10% of total US debt. The idea that China has us by the balls is badly overblown.


traddad


Jun 9, 2011, 6:19 AM
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Re: [ubu] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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The very idea thet the Chamber of Commerce would allow their GOP lap dogs off leash long enough to default on The Debt is preposterous.

Sorry folks, I know you luvs you some drama, but we're talking money here. Not. Gonna. Happen.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Jun 9, 2011, 6:32 AM
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Re: [traddad] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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traddad wrote:
The very idea thet the Chamber of Commerce would allow their GOP lap dogs off leash long enough to default on The Debt is preposterous.

Sorry folks, I know you luvs you some drama, but we're talking money here. Not. Gonna. Happen.

Never. Underestimate. (Republican). Stupidity.


traddad


Jun 9, 2011, 6:49 AM
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Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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I know...
Lemmings
Burn the village to save it....

...and then there are the "small government is better, no government is best" libertarians for whom a descent into chaos is the golden opportunity they desire.

Besides...we all know we can profit from the economic hardship of others...full page newspaper adds tell us so!
Flip that house!
Break up that company!


(This post was edited by traddad on Jun 9, 2011, 7:02 AM)


ChuteandClimb


Jun 9, 2011, 9:10 AM
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Re: [veganclimber] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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veganclimber wrote:
Personally, I hope they don't cut spending by as much as a penny unless it is accompanied by tax increases. There is simply no way any sane person can argue that taxes on the highest income rates should be at historically low levels right now.


I agree that we need to cut spending AND raise taxes to cover our gap.

But I'm on the other page - I don't want to see any taxes increased for anyone until they PROVE that they can cut spending and keep it cut. Seems that for every $1 of taxes they add to income, they add $1.50 of new spending. That's not decreasing the gap, that increasing the gap.

anyway - it seems we're saying the same thing - "Do both - stick with it - or just stop with the rhetoric" and that goes for R's and D's.


(This post was edited by ChuteandClimb on Jun 9, 2011, 9:11 AM)


gunkiemike


Jun 9, 2011, 12:28 PM
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Re: [ubu] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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ubu wrote:
gunkiemike wrote:
The Chinese have the US by the 'nads. If they dump their US debt onto world credit markets, it's bye bye Western economy.

I'm not an economist. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


China holds less than 10% of total US debt. The idea that China has us by the balls is badly overblown.

Nice spin. "Less than 10%" is still 1.1 - 1.2 trillion dollars, and they are the largest international holder of US securities (debt). To suggest that dumping a trillion $ on the market would not be a significant disruption is, at best, extremely optimistic.


traddad


Jun 9, 2011, 12:46 PM
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Re: [gunkiemike] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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gunkiemike wrote:
ubu wrote:
gunkiemike wrote:
The Chinese have the US by the 'nads. If they dump their US debt onto world credit markets, it's bye bye Western economy.

I'm not an economist. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


China holds less than 10% of total US debt. The idea that China has us by the balls is badly overblown.

Nice spin. "Less than 10%" is still 1.1 - 1.2 trillion dollars, and they are the largest international holder of US securities (debt). To suggest that dumping a trillion $ on the market would not be a significant disruption is, at best, extremely optimistic.

To suggest that they would do that is extremely pessimistic


caughtinside


Jun 9, 2011, 12:53 PM
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Re: [traddad] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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traddad wrote:
gunkiemike wrote:
ubu wrote:
gunkiemike wrote:
The Chinese have the US by the 'nads. If they dump their US debt onto world credit markets, it's bye bye Western economy.

I'm not an economist. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


China holds less than 10% of total US debt. The idea that China has us by the balls is badly overblown.

Nice spin. "Less than 10%" is still 1.1 - 1.2 trillion dollars, and they are the largest international holder of US securities (debt). To suggest that dumping a trillion $ on the market would not be a significant disruption is, at best, extremely optimistic.

To suggest that they would do that is extremely pessimistic

If they wreck our economy we will no longer be able to buy and consume their cheap shit.


ubu


Jun 9, 2011, 12:58 PM
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Re: [gunkiemike] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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gunkiemike wrote:
ubu wrote:
gunkiemike wrote:
The Chinese have the US by the 'nads. If they dump their US debt onto world credit markets, it's bye bye Western economy.

I'm not an economist. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


China holds less than 10% of total US debt. The idea that China has us by the balls is badly overblown.

Nice spin. "Less than 10%" is still 1.1 - 1.2 trillion dollars, and they are the largest international holder of US securities (debt). To suggest that dumping a trillion $ on the market would not be a significant disruption is, at best, extremely optimistic.

I stated a fact. You're the one trying to spin.


traddad


Jun 9, 2011, 1:31 PM
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Re: [ubu] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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From TPM:

So what could the federal government defaulting on its debt mean to you? And how much could even a what's now being called a 'technical' default cost?

In reply to:
Because interest rates on bonds determine how much it costs the US government to secure more debt, even seemingly slight changes can affect the long term deficit on a large scale. A 1% rise in interest rates, or 100 basis points, would grow the deficit by over $400 billion over the next five years and $1.2 trillion from 2012-2021, according to the CBO. Given that the agency's baseline assumes a number of tax cuts that Congress typically extends will expire, it's likely that more debt would be affected and push the number even higher.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...ficit-even-worse.php


curt


Jun 13, 2011, 9:39 PM
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Re: [traddad] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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traddad wrote:
The very idea thet the Chamber of Commerce would allow their GOP lap dogs off leash long enough to default on The Debt is preposterous.

Sorry folks, I know you luvs you some drama, but we're talking money here. Not. Gonna. Happen.

Correct. However, what the Republitards don't seem to grasp is that even the appearance of the possibility that we may default on our debt may irreparably harm the credit rating of the US and end up costing all of us hundreds of billions of additional dollars.

Curt


traddad


Jun 14, 2011, 11:39 AM
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Re: [curt] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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curt wrote:
traddad wrote:
The very idea thet the Chamber of Commerce would allow their GOP lap dogs off leash long enough to default on The Debt is preposterous.

Sorry folks, I know you luvs you some drama, but we're talking money here. Not. Gonna. Happen.

Correct. However, what the Republitards don't seem to grasp is that even the appearance of the possibility that we may default on our debt may irreparably harm the credit rating of the US and end up costing all of us hundreds of billions of additional dollars.

Curt

That's exactly what the CBO chief said today:

CBO Director Elmendorf: Debt Default ‘A Dangerous Gamble’

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...gamble.php?ref=fpblg

The Republicans are like testosterone addled teenagers playing chicken with Pop's station wagon; So worried about appearing week to the handkerchief waving public on the sidelines, that they'd rather drive off the cliff than admit that they're playing a stupid game.


caughtinside


Jun 14, 2011, 12:21 PM
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Re: [traddad] It looks like defaulting on our debts is an option now [In reply to]
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Bernanke's saying the same thing, front page of CNN.com right now.


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