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jacques


Jun 20, 2011, 8:00 AM
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training multi pitch
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As I climb multi pitch, free mostly, i like to train for route of 10 to 15 pitches in a day. I already did exercise to climb at my level on small crag and I want to climb fast and to get an "instinct" to find hole while I was on the rock. Any sugestion?


csproul


Jun 20, 2011, 8:22 AM
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Re: [jacques] training multi pitch [In reply to]
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jacques wrote:
... I want to climb fast and to get an "instinct" to find hole while I was on the rock....
I'm not sure what you mean by this. What does "find hole" mean?


kachoong


Jun 20, 2011, 8:29 AM
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jacques wrote:
As I climb multi pitch, free mostly, i like to train for route of 10 to 15 pitches in a day. I already did exercise to climb at my level on small crag and I want to climb fast and to get an "instinct" to find hole while I was on the rock. Any sugestion?

Probably the most important issue when trying to climb fast on multi-pitch is to make belay set-up and exchanges as quick as possible without sacrificing safety. This would be the best aspect of multi-pitch climbing to work on for speed. Efficiency at belays can save you hours on a climb as a whole. Also, make note, that effective communication with your partner will aid in keeping things efficient. Knowing what each other is doing at all times will speed things up, so having a regular, trusted partner is key.


olderic


Jun 20, 2011, 8:57 AM
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kachoong wrote:
jacques wrote:
As I climb multi pitch, free mostly, i like to train for route of 10 to 15 pitches in a day. I already did exercise to climb at my level on small crag and I want to climb fast and to get an "instinct" to find hole while I was on the rock. Any sugestion?

Probably the most important issue when trying to climb fast on multi-pitch is to make belay set-up and exchanges as quick as possible without sacrificing safety. This would be the best aspect of multi-pitch climbing to work on for speed. Efficiency at belays can save you hours on a climb as a whole. Also, make note, that effective communication with your partner will aid in keeping things efficient. Knowing what each other is doing at all times will speed things up, so having a regular, trusted partner is key.
+1.

Also racking the same way as your partner. Also having a consistent of doing things - might not be the fastest but it its always the same it will be efficient.


markc


Jun 20, 2011, 9:38 AM
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olderic wrote:
Also racking the same way as your partner. Also having a consistent of doing things - might not be the fastest but it its always the same it will be efficient.

That really helps. One of my partners and I have really different ways of racking. I'll often adopt his style. If not, block leading minimizes time-consuming major reorganizations.


scrapedape


Jun 20, 2011, 12:24 PM
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Knowing your partner is probably the most important thing. My longest day ever was a 17-pitch linkup on the Chief, and I did it on about my fourth day of the season and in mediocre fitness. But, I was with a partner with whom I've climbed for several years, so we could always be sure to be on the same page.

Avoiding wasted time is also key. This means firstly that both partners should be busy at all times. No faffing about. Also, it means avoiding duplicating work, like if you re-rack the gear in a way your partner doesn't like and he has to do it over again. Knowing your partner helps with both of these.

I'm not sure that racking in the same way as your partner is as important as knowing how your partner racks. As long as you are not moving gear on and off of biners at every swap, I think you can do fine as long as you know where your partner puts the nuts, how they organize the cams, etc. Being willing to hand a gear sling back and forth might help with this, but I don't really like the things.


bearbreeder


Jun 20, 2011, 11:46 PM
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find a longer moderate trad climb an turn it into a multipitch to get the transitions down ... also helps you with getting used to gear belays


blueeyedclimber


Jun 21, 2011, 5:15 AM
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Re: [jacques] training multi pitch [In reply to]
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jacques wrote:
As I climb multi pitch, free mostly, i like to train for route of 10 to 15 pitches in a day. I already did exercise to climb at my level on small crag and I want to climb fast and to get an "instinct" to find hole while I was on the rock. Any sugestion?

Ignoring whatever you meant by "finding a hole", are you asking about efficiency while climbing or training for the climbing itself (as far as endurance needed to climb multiple pitches)?

Efficiency takes a lot of practice. There are certainly tricks that you can learn, but most of it you figure out along the way. Mileage is the key.

As far as endurance training, I don't specifically do anything to train, but when I am going to attempt something longer and harder, I often notice that it is not the hard climbing that gets me, but at some point I hit a wall and feel that my endurance gave out. I have recently been thinking more about training for specific climbs.

Josh


billl7


Jun 21, 2011, 5:40 AM
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jacques wrote:
As I climb multi pitch, free mostly, i like to train for route of 10 to 15 pitches in a day. I already did exercise to climb at my level on small crag and I want to climb fast and to get an "instinct" to find hole while I was on the rock. Any sugestion?

Lots of good comments above. I'd also add ...

* Get in lots of mileage onsighting pitches outside (not in the gym) that are a little harder than the crux of the route of interest. Really work on reading the unknown moves that are coming up and reading the gear placements.

* Choose partners who have a similar goal and be sure they understand the need for efficiency.

My partner and I once went up a 12 pitch route with another climbing pair. The leader on that pair was known to me and was leading way below his limit - I knew he would be efficient on lead. But he chose a partner who was much much less experienced and had never led a pitch. Imagine my surprise when coming up behind them and seeing the inexperienced fellow casting off on his very first trad lead. They also had many very long pauses at the belay while they discussed what was coming up for them. It was a long day.

Bill L


(This post was edited by billl7 on Jun 21, 2011, 5:42 AM)


jacques


Jun 21, 2011, 4:12 PM
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yes, lot of good points above. We have begun to train on that way.

I also want to be more efficient on a pitch. When I onsight, finding the good hand placement is always difficult. Anticipation play a very important to move rapidly and efficiently. I don't know how to train to are able to anticipate hand placement. Finding hole, for me, mean anticipate hand placement.

But I am happy with the answer because it gave us more idea to train for multipitch


healyje


Jun 21, 2011, 4:19 PM
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Forget the notion of 'onsight' - it's seems very limiting every time I hear you and others use it. Maybe simply try hanging less when climbing in general and going back down to the belay or last solid rest when you fall. Get used to thinking while climbing, not while hanging.


jacques


Jun 21, 2011, 7:43 PM
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Re: [healyje] training multi pitch [In reply to]
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healyje wrote:
Forget the notion of 'onsight' - it's seems very limiting every time I hear you and others use it.

I look in a book in the evening and climbed the route the next morning (higher cathedral spire at yosemite)...without any fall...or following an other climber...is it an onsight?

I never hang on my rope, except when I can not climb the route. When I fall, I go to the nearest rest and start to climb again immediately. On my ethic, I can make a mistake. It is not an onsight, but I climb the route with one or two fall. Other way, I aid the route and it is a failed for ever. For example, I climb etheral crack with one fall, the second time...I didn't climb it very well.

In that way, I try a route just when I think that I have enough training. it is my question. I think that soloing on a route that I know could be a good think because my reaction is more analytical than when I top rope or lead a route. Is it a good way or do you have other way to anticipate where is going to be the next hand hole


billl7


Jun 21, 2011, 8:17 PM
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healyje wrote:
Forget the notion of 'onsight' - it's seems very limiting every time I hear you and others use it. Maybe simply try hanging less when climbing in general and going back down to the belay or last solid rest when you fall. Get used to thinking while climbing, not while hanging.

Yeah - 'onsight' was not the right word. What I was really after was that reading of the moves ahead and reading of stances for placing gear ahead while at a rest ... that takes some experience to master. This is totally lost if one simply builds up endurance by doing tons and tons of laps on the same routes such that the leads become thoughtless.

Bill L


healyje


Jun 22, 2011, 12:02 AM
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Agreed. If figuring out the 'holes' (holds) is the issue and you are climbing trad, then I'd say getting in a whole bunch of yardage on unfamiliar moderates for your grade is about the best you can do to get used to it. Pick stuff two grades below your limit and just keep moving, learn to sort out the moves / holds on the fly. After you get a LOT of yards in on moderates then consider bumping up the grade a bit at a time.


alleyehave


Jun 22, 2011, 12:18 AM
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we all strive to 'find hole', its our nature


billl7


Jun 22, 2011, 5:46 AM
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alleyehave wrote:
we all strive to 'find hole', its our nature

Well, half of us do. The other half are trying to get the first half to have more than one thing on the mind all of the time. Wink


jacques


Jun 22, 2011, 9:26 AM
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Re: [alleyehave] training multi pitch [In reply to]
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alleyehave wrote:
we all strive to 'find hole', its our nature

sorry for the mistake, holes for holds.


jbro_135


Jun 24, 2011, 8:08 AM
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Re: [jacques] training multi pitch [In reply to]
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Try bouldering once in a while and get stronger. Onsighting the multipitch trad route will feel easier afterwards. Then you can ramble more about "ze distinction between trad and sport cimbing"


jacques


Jun 24, 2011, 10:10 AM
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Re: [billl7] training multi pitch [In reply to]
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"billl7 wrote:
What I was really after was that reading of the moves ahead and reading of stances for placing gear ahead while at a rest ... that takes some experience to master. Bill L
and J Bro 135 said
In reply to:
Try bouldering once in a while and get stronger. Onsighting the multipitch trad route will feel easier afterwards.


So, if we take a rest on the rope, it is not good, but if we take a rest without hanging on the rope it is good? I understand that when I keep climbing, even if I am at a rest, I use my energy to stay on the cliff. The possibility of what I can see is narower than if I am hanging on the rope. So, to keep my energy, I can use aerobic "strength" to recover at rest, I can have more technique to do a move and I can anticipate where I will find the holds.

I don't agree with j bro because when you boulder, you stay many hour facing a problem and, in that way, you don't improve your technique. As you are stronger, you can use marginal hole to climb all the move pratically in the same style. One of my agreement as I climb is to make new move with as less strenght that I can. It is anticipating the move as the rock want me to do it. I think that multi pitch one or two grade below my limit could be more efficient as a training for trad.


jbro_135


Jun 26, 2011, 6:28 PM
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When I boulder I try to do each move with as little effort as possible. It's just that in the case of bouldering at your limit, doing each move as efficiently as possible is the difference between success and failure. I know this might disturb and alarm you and make you type four incoherent paragraphs about the difference between trad and the lesser forms of climbing, but the same principles really do apply to bouldering and sport.

Get stronger and your multipitch will be much easier. You can't get stronger by climbing things below your limit all the time.


jacques


Jun 26, 2011, 7:13 PM
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Re: [jbro_135] training multi pitch [In reply to]
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jbro_135 wrote:
I know this might disturb and alarm you and make you type four incoherent paragraphs about the difference between trad and the lesser forms of climbing....

I never say that trad is a lesser form or a better forms of climbing. I asked a question about how I can improve my anticipation to find hand and foot holds as I onsight a route. If I do bouldering, it will increase my strenght, particularly at the level of the finger and I will be able to use more hold. Bouldering or other form of exercise are good to increase my power.

Trying a move a little bit to the right or a little bit more to the left could it improve my anticipation to find hand hold? I don't think so. I think that climbing 15 pitches in a day could be a better training even if it is under my limits.


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