Forums: Climbing Information: Technique & Training:
UPDATED 8-7-11:Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA!
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Technique & Training

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All


flesh


Jun 4, 2011, 3:24 PM
Post #1 of 75 (12032 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 418

UPDATED 8-7-11:Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA!
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

It's Finally done!

http://player.vimeo.com/video/27422533?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0

My goal was to put as much weight on my fingers as possible without causing injuries. I wanted to add pure power to my fingers, that's it. Unlike many campusing routines this one doesn't push me even close to my limit in terms or my maximum lockoff or the furthest I can reach. Personally, I think there are better ways to train pull power and body tension than a campus board. Also, this has never been a weakness for me. This workout shouldn't get you very sore after doing it a couple different days anywhere except the finger muscles.



This is what I came up with. I like it better than other campus routines simply because when you do doubles, for that second of impact, you put alot of weight on your fingers. However, you can use a largish size rung because it's still hard to hold. In most cases, the smaller the rung, the more your hand will naturally go into a open crimp or full crimp position in the smallest of rungs. I've had 9 finger injuries from crimping so I wanted to stay away from repetitive power crimping. Also, instead of going to a smaller rung as I've gained power, I've added weight using my adj weight vest. It goes up to 20 pounds and at this point I'm using the smallest rung I can while still remaining almost fully open handed. I do this about 2-4 times a month just depending on a number of things and have seen significant improvement in a controlled enviroment. Also, I've jumped 3 v grades since the end of january. It's hard to say how much of that was due to this workout and how much was due to losing 20lbs but I'd guess the 20 lbs was worth about 2 of the 3 v grades. But who knows. I definately know this pushes my open handed finger strength to the very limit everytime I do it. I am failing long before I'm feeling any sort of pump.

In the beggining of the video, you'll see me using large rungs going up then down... quickly. After I boulder well below my limit to warm up for about 30 minutes... I'll campus without weight on the largest rungs to warm up the campus specific muscles/tendons, etc.

You'll see me using a chunk of block chalk to chalk my fingers just on the first pad which is all that touches the rung. The reason for this is because I've found that when i chalk my whole hand it dries out the gap in the finger nail and causes my fingers to split from repetitive doubles. If you split them bad enough, you won't sleep that night. So just put the chalk on the pad and don't reach into a chalk bag over and over. Plus, if you hold your fingers in a curled position and don't stretch them out throughout the routine you'll be less likely to split them.

I've found through trial and error that it's best to shoot for a minimum of 8 reps and a maximum of 10 reps. If you can't do 8 reps...take away weight or use a larger rung until you can. If you can consistently do 10 reps then add a couple pounds till you're back down to 8.

I like to do 10 minutes rests between because I want to have almost a full recovery between sets and I like to do 6 sets total. I think anything more than that is overkill for pure power. It's nice to have a consistent, controlled enviroment as well. It's so easy as a climber to get stuck in a mindset that you're on a plateau or to convince yourself you're not getting stronger anymore. It's difficult to say this though, as alot of you have found, many times it's just in your head. With this, the rungs always stay the same. The distance between them stays the same. The amount of weight you use can be measured. The rest between sets can be timed, etc. Over the course of time you'll no longer be limited to whether or not your fingers are getting stronger, you'll know. I see improvement in either max weight or max reps almost every time I do this.

When I first came up with this idea in februrary, I could only do a max of 7 reps/no weight on the smaller of the two rungs in this video. In the video, the first set you see me do is without weight and I do 14 reps. My personal best is in this video as well. In one of the sets I do 10 reps with 16lbs in the vest. My previous best was only 8 reps with 16 lbs, two weeks ago.

Since not all of you will be able to start on the smaller rungs, at the very end of the video I included what I suggest you do on the larger rungs starting out. It's in black in white, but basically I climb to one rung below the top to start. Next, I'll campus up on rung to the top the skip two rungs on the way down, go up on rung, skip two down, etc.... by the time your at the bottom you should have completed 8 reps. Once you can do 8 reps, add weight. I went up to adding 30 lbs on this larger rung before I went to a smaller rung. I plan on going up to 30 lbs/12 reps on the rung I'm currently using. After that I'm not sure what i'll do, since I'm already using the smallest rung I can stay open on. Maybe I'll have some custom holds made or start down campusing one handed.

Here's the short version my workout.

-warm up 30 minutes bouldering way below your level taking care never to get very pumped, rest 5 minutes.

-do a warm up campus well below your max either using a larger rung or no weight etc., rest 5 minutes.

SET #1-do a second warm up at maybe 85% your limit. You can do this by either using your smallest rung but with no weight or by using a larger rung with weight.
Take note, every SET is until absolute failure and you better try so hard your guts want to explode or your not trying hard enough! In my video, my first set is the one I start on the smaller rungs but without any weight, I still go until failure, but I don't have any weight on so it's not as hard on my tendons. Rest ten minutes.

Set#2 - In this set I believe I do 10 reps and to warm up my tendons further I do it with a total of ten pounds. Rest ten Minutes.

Set#3- In this set I do 8 reps with about 16lbs. Rest ten minutes.

Set#4- In this set I do 10 reps with 16 lbs, my best so far, rest ten minutes

Set#5- 8 reps, 16lbs, rest ten minutes

Set #6- 10 reps, 10 lbs (I was pretty sure I wouldnt' be able to do 8 reps min with 16 lbs so I lowered weight for last set)

I don't know if this is true but I've been told that if your goal is to build pure power, you don't want to get your arms full of lactic acid because it inhibits your bodies ability to build raw muscle. This workout doesn't build up the lactic acid much because your failing long before the pump sets in and resting long enough between to totally depump. After this workout I don't do any other climbing at all and usually just take one day off after.
The best part? I always know if I'm getting stronger and it never hurts my fingers! PURE POWA lol


(This post was edited by flesh on Sep 23, 2011, 10:11 AM)


sungam


Jun 4, 2011, 3:27 PM
Post #2 of 75 (12026 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26619

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm psyched!


ceebo


Jun 4, 2011, 4:47 PM
Post #3 of 75 (12007 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 862

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

flesh wrote:
HAHA, well it's actually not done, I promised y'all though so I will put it here next week sometime... I've been busy bouldering outside before it gets to hot. 10PM session coming tonight.

I need to see those bigger rungs you use.. the ones available to me are not looking convincing of gains unless adding stupid amounts of weight.

Looking forward to seeing your set up.


flesh


Jun 9, 2011, 10:50 AM
Post #4 of 75 (11788 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 418

Re: [ceebo] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

Well, I finally filmed it. Just gotta figure out how to put it on my puter. You know what's crazy? If this doesn't prove how big a difference weight makes nothing will.

On the same rung, without weight the best I can do is 11 reps, with only 10-11 lbs on me, the best I can do is 7 reps. So that's roughly 35% difference in power from just ten pounds. If that doesn't make it clear how big a difference unnessecary weight makes to folks, nothing will. I've lost 22 lbs in four months now.....

I'll post it a bit later.


johnwesely


Jun 9, 2011, 11:21 AM
Post #5 of 75 (11763 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 5343

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

flesh wrote:
Well, I finally filmed it. Just gotta figure out how to put it on my puter. You know what's crazy? If this doesn't prove how big a difference weight makes nothing will.

On the same rung, without weight the best I can do is 11 reps, with only 10-11 lbs on me, the best I can do is 7 reps. So that's roughly 35% difference in power from just ten pounds. If that doesn't make it clear how big a difference unnessecary weight makes to folks, nothing will. I've lost 22 lbs in four months now.....

I'll post it a bit later.

It is a 35% difference in endurance.


mr.tastycakes


Jun 21, 2011, 5:54 AM
Post #6 of 75 (11435 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 310

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

2.5 weeks and counting...


flesh


Jun 21, 2011, 5:26 PM
Post #7 of 75 (11347 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 418

Re: [mr.tastycakes] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

mr.tastycakes wrote:
2.5 weeks and counting...

Sorry, leaving tommorrow for two weeks out of town. I'll have to do it when I get back, PROMISE! I updated with a little open handed video though.


flesh


Jun 21, 2011, 5:34 PM
Post #8 of 75 (11341 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 418

Re: [johnwesely] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

johnwesely wrote:
flesh wrote:
Well, I finally filmed it. Just gotta figure out how to put it on my puter. You know what's crazy? If this doesn't prove how big a difference weight makes nothing will.

On the same rung, without weight the best I can do is 11 reps, with only 10-11 lbs on me, the best I can do is 7 reps. So that's roughly 35% difference in power from just ten pounds. If that doesn't make it clear how big a difference unnessecary weight makes to folks, nothing will. I've lost 22 lbs in four months now.....

I'll post it a bit later.

It is a 35% difference in endurance.

Sure, you may call it endurance, I may call it power, maybe it would be best described as power endurance. I call it power simply because if you look at it in the form of elapsed time, the difference is about 4-5 seconds. The total amount of time it takes me to do 11 reps is about 12-13 seconds, in my mind, it's still power. 13 seconds or less of climbing, no matter what, is power climbing and has nothing to do with endurance.


johnwesely


Jun 21, 2011, 6:28 PM
Post #9 of 75 (11326 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 5343

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

flesh wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
flesh wrote:
Well, I finally filmed it. Just gotta figure out how to put it on my puter. You know what's crazy? If this doesn't prove how big a difference weight makes nothing will.

On the same rung, without weight the best I can do is 11 reps, with only 10-11 lbs on me, the best I can do is 7 reps. So that's roughly 35% difference in power from just ten pounds. If that doesn't make it clear how big a difference unnessecary weight makes to folks, nothing will. I've lost 22 lbs in four months now.....

I'll post it a bit later.

It is a 35% difference in endurance.

Sure, you may call it endurance, I may call it power, maybe it would be best described as power endurance. I call it power simply because if you look at it in the form of elapsed time, the difference is about 4-5 seconds. The total amount of time it takes me to do 11 reps is about 12-13 seconds, in my mind, it's still power. 13 seconds or less of climbing, no matter what, is power climbing and has nothing to do with endurance.

Power is work/time. 13 seconds of climbing could be very powerful, but that is not necessarily true. If you are increasing reps, you are increasing endurance.


jbro_135


Jun 22, 2011, 9:22 AM
Post #10 of 75 (11244 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2009
Posts: 662

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

dab


flesh


Jun 22, 2011, 10:56 AM
Post #11 of 75 (11216 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 418

Re: [jbro_135] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

jbro_135 wrote:
dab

no'. I had to move the pads further from the wall... for that reason... thats why there a ways back in that section. There was no dab, but thanks for being a dick.

If you google pro tips slopers you can see the first ascentionist and he does it the same way.


flesh


Jun 22, 2011, 10:59 AM
Post #12 of 75 (11213 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 418

Re: [johnwesely] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm talking about campusing and until failure, I don't stop until i fail, not when I get to a certain rep. but whatever, if you want to call a increase of climbing from 9-13 seconds till failure endurance feel free. pz


Grizvok


Jun 22, 2011, 12:04 PM
Post #13 of 75 (11177 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 30, 2008
Posts: 153

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

flesh wrote:
I'm talking about campusing and until failure, I don't stop until i fail, not when I get to a certain rep. but whatever, if you want to call a increase of climbing from 9-13 seconds till failure endurance feel free. pz

Except the fact that it is endurance. Increased POWER would probably be you accelerating off of the hold faster which was untested and never mentioned.


flesh


Jun 22, 2011, 1:44 PM
Post #14 of 75 (11133 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 418

Re: [Grizvok] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Grizvok wrote:
flesh wrote:
I'm talking about campusing and until failure, I don't stop until i fail, not when I get to a certain rep. but whatever, if you want to call a increase of climbing from 9-13 seconds till failure endurance feel free. pz

Except the fact that it is endurance. Increased POWER would probably be you accelerating off of the hold faster which was untested and never mentioned.

blah blah blah


dynosore


Jun 22, 2011, 1:53 PM
Post #15 of 75 (11129 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 29, 2004
Posts: 1764

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Well, that's an increase of 4 seconds, or about 45%. When you do something difficult/stressful for a time, you endure it, not power it.

Weren't you the one just talking about how important a 35% difference is Crazy


jbro_135


Jun 22, 2011, 2:18 PM
Post #16 of 75 (11117 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2009
Posts: 662

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

flesh wrote:
jbro_135 wrote:
dab

no'. I had to move the pads further from the wall... for that reason... thats why there a ways back in that section. There was no dab, but thanks for being a dick.

If you google pro tips slopers you can see the first ascentionist and he does it the same way.


based on your quick and defensive response...



dab.


flesh


Jun 22, 2011, 11:12 PM
Post #17 of 75 (11071 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 418

Re: [dynosore] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

 Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?


lazymonkey


Jun 23, 2011, 3:04 AM
Post #18 of 75 (11044 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2010
Posts: 75

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Lol....dude we're on an anonymous internet message board...people talk ish for no good reason...screw em! You'd probably crush all of their projects in 1 session...haters gonna hate


sungam


Jun 23, 2011, 6:15 AM
Post #19 of 75 (11005 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26619

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

It's kinda enjoyable to slam people on line. Hell, I've done shit tons of it myself. It's probably not personal, they do it to almost everyone. Good for getting you're kicks when your a little bored.


saint_john


Jun 23, 2011, 6:58 AM
Post #20 of 75 (10991 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 4, 2010
Posts: 494

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

welcome to the internet.


ceebo


Jun 23, 2011, 9:55 AM
Post #21 of 75 (10944 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 862

Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

Story time Laugh

This reminds me of some things Dave mcleod was talking about. Allot of climbers spent/spend or are going to spend years doing the same shit ''thinking'' it was or will help them. Such narrow minded people appear not to like thinking (and that is referring to avg poster on rc.com) outside the box.. or doing things that the ''pro's'' did not cover or validate in the SCC. The SCC is a beginner book, don't care who is offended by that.. read it sure.. but fuck sake use it then move on to higher things.

Basically, your quick improvement (FROM HARD WORK) shows most of the people here to be wrong.. and that in truth.. they are poor climbers. They don't like that, maybe to the point of denial.

Personally i think this type of person want to get good at climbing but they don't have the determination to put in the ''real'' hard work. They think that technique is key.. and that sweating blood from hard physical work outs does not play any part in that equation.

I realised a little while back that i was such a person.. convinced that the likes of endurance/technique/ 4x4 drills would make me a better climber. Yes they helped.. but i can say with certainty i wasted at least 8 month doing too much of it. Instead of burying my head in the sand i admitted i was doing things wrong. So i used this forum and other sources to try and understand how ''real'' climbers (those who are actually climbing respectable grades) got good.. how they trained etc etc. Yes.. i said it.. im a grade chaser.

I posted some of my questions and thoughts/theory's on here but always got flamed by morons climbing mediocre grades and low motivation. I asked many things about weighted training, forms of cross training and so on.. all with the same answer ''just go climb'' - ''read the SCC'' (even after stating on many occasions i have) to the reply of ''read it again''.

I read a few blog's about campusing and so on. I started doing some here and their. Maybe a month or 2 later you came along with your posts of improvement and gave first hand views.. instead of quoting shit from the scc or quotes of a quote from the scc as so many do here.

I don't care if what i say makes it look like im licking your arse. Because what you have posted has helped me HUGELY in motivation, clarification and also validation. Reading a blog is one thing, but being able to talk to a person (like you) is a complete other story. Who the fk should i listen too?.. i guy telling me to read the scc and is climbing 5.11?.. or a guy who is working fking hard.. and climbing v12 or what not. Yeah.. its a no brainer.

What im trying to say is.. in the nicest way possible, rc.com has sections.. such as beginners, gear heads and so so. I thought that ''technique and training'' would be for those who wish to get really good AND STRONG in climbing. What i found it to be.. for 99% of the time is complete novice OR avg climbers with their heads up their jacksy.. who will never amount to much other than mediocre climbing of .12 and below.


I sense some flame on this one.


kaizen


Jun 23, 2011, 12:03 PM
Post #22 of 75 (10894 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 17, 2009
Posts: 154

Re: [ceebo] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ceebo wrote:
flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

Story time Laugh

This reminds me of some things Dave mcleod was talking about. Allot of climbers spent/spend or are going to spend years doing the same shit ''thinking'' it was or will help them. Such narrow minded people appear not to like thinking (and that is referring to avg poster on rc.com) outside the box.. or doing things that the ''pro's'' did not cover or validate in the SCC. The SCC is a beginner book, don't care who is offended by that.. read it sure.. but fuck sake use it then move on to higher things.

Basically, your quick improvement (FROM HARD WORK) shows most of the people here to be wrong.. and that in truth.. they are poor climbers. They don't like that, maybe to the point of denial.

Personally i think this type of person want to get good at climbing but they don't have the determination to put in the ''real'' hard work. They think that technique is key.. and that sweating blood from hard physical work outs does not play any part in that equation.

I realised a little while back that i was such a person.. convinced that the likes of endurance/technique/ 4x4 drills would make me a better climber. Yes they helped.. but i can say with certainty i wasted at least 8 month doing too much of it. Instead of burying my head in the sand i admitted i was doing things wrong. So i used this forum and other sources to try and understand how ''real'' climbers (those who are actually climbing respectable grades) got good.. how they trained etc etc. Yes.. i said it.. im a grade chaser.

I posted some of my questions and thoughts/theory's on here but always got flamed by morons climbing mediocre grades and low motivation. I asked many things about weighted training, forms of cross training and so on.. all with the same answer ''just go climb'' - ''read the SCC'' (even after stating on many occasions i have) to the reply of ''read it again''.

I read a few blog's about campusing and so on. I started doing some here and their. Maybe a month or 2 later you came along with your posts of improvement and gave first hand views.. instead of quoting shit from the scc or quotes of a quote from the scc as so many do here.

I don't care if what i say makes it look like im licking your arse. Because what you have posted has helped me HUGELY in motivation, clarification and also validation. Reading a blog is one thing, but being able to talk to a person (like you) is a complete other story. Who the fk should i listen too?.. i guy telling me to read the scc and is climbing 5.11?.. or a guy who is working fking hard.. and climbing v12 or what not. Yeah.. its a no brainer.

What im trying to say is.. in the nicest way possible, rc.com has sections.. such as beginners, gear heads and so so. I thought that ''technique and training'' would be for those who wish to get really good AND STRONG in climbing. What i found it to be.. for 99% of the time is complete novice OR avg climbers with their heads up their jacksy.. who will never amount to much other than mediocre climbing of .12 and below.


I sense some flame on this one.

With all due respect, didn't you just post how the hardest route you've sent was in the 7b (5.12b) range?

I'm also not sure why you insist that you can't get stronger while training technique. I sure as hell feel worn out after a gym session of "technique training" on steep walls.

Strength gains will help. But the whole argument isn't that strength training is bad, it's about using your training time efficiently. One makes you stronger, the other can make you stronger and efficient. You'll need both to reach maximum potential, and holes in ones climbing will be different for everyone.

Wolfgang was crushing 8c before the campus board was invented Tongue


ceebo


Jun 23, 2011, 12:55 PM
Post #23 of 75 (10879 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 862

Re: [kaizen] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

kaizen wrote:
ceebo wrote:
flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

Story time Laugh

This reminds me of some things Dave mcleod was talking about. Allot of climbers spent/spend or are going to spend years doing the same shit ''thinking'' it was or will help them. Such narrow minded people appear not to like thinking (and that is referring to avg poster on rc.com) outside the box.. or doing things that the ''pro's'' did not cover or validate in the SCC. The SCC is a beginner book, don't care who is offended by that.. read it sure.. but fuck sake use it then move on to higher things.

Basically, your quick improvement (FROM HARD WORK) shows most of the people here to be wrong.. and that in truth.. they are poor climbers. They don't like that, maybe to the point of denial.

Personally i think this type of person want to get good at climbing but they don't have the determination to put in the ''real'' hard work. They think that technique is key.. and that sweating blood from hard physical work outs does not play any part in that equation.

I realised a little while back that i was such a person.. convinced that the likes of endurance/technique/ 4x4 drills would make me a better climber. Yes they helped.. but i can say with certainty i wasted at least 8 month doing too much of it. Instead of burying my head in the sand i admitted i was doing things wrong. So i used this forum and other sources to try and understand how ''real'' climbers (those who are actually climbing respectable grades) got good.. how they trained etc etc. Yes.. i said it.. im a grade chaser.

I posted some of my questions and thoughts/theory's on here but always got flamed by morons climbing mediocre grades and low motivation. I asked many things about weighted training, forms of cross training and so on.. all with the same answer ''just go climb'' - ''read the SCC'' (even after stating on many occasions i have) to the reply of ''read it again''.

I read a few blog's about campusing and so on. I started doing some here and their. Maybe a month or 2 later you came along with your posts of improvement and gave first hand views.. instead of quoting shit from the scc or quotes of a quote from the scc as so many do here.

I don't care if what i say makes it look like im licking your arse. Because what you have posted has helped me HUGELY in motivation, clarification and also validation. Reading a blog is one thing, but being able to talk to a person (like you) is a complete other story. Who the fk should i listen too?.. i guy telling me to read the scc and is climbing 5.11?.. or a guy who is working fking hard.. and climbing v12 or what not. Yeah.. its a no brainer.

What im trying to say is.. in the nicest way possible, rc.com has sections.. such as beginners, gear heads and so so. I thought that ''technique and training'' would be for those who wish to get really good AND STRONG in climbing. What i found it to be.. for 99% of the time is complete novice OR avg climbers with their heads up their jacksy.. who will never amount to much other than mediocre climbing of .12 and below.


I sense some flame on this one.

With all due respect, didn't you just post how the hardest route you've sent was in the 7b (5.12b) range?

I'm also not sure why you insist that you can't get stronger while training technique. I sure as hell feel worn out after a gym session of "technique training" on steep walls.

Strength gains will help. But the whole argument isn't that strength training is bad, it's about using your training time efficiently. One makes you stronger, the other can make you stronger and efficient. You'll need both to reach maximum potential, and holes in ones climbing will be different for everyone.

Wolfgang was crushing 8c before the campus board was invented Tongue

Slightly harder, but not the point. The point is that many people will be or are stuck at the same level. That will not happen for me.. as i ''try'' to keep a open mind for ideas or training concepts that are at least new to me.

Their is a difference between acquiring a certain level of mastery over basic techniques... and endlessly drilling them. Anybody who has put in the effort and time can easily reach an acceptable base of technique within 1-2 year. Any refinement of the above can be acquired as and when a particular route demands it. It was exactly when i stopped wasting my time doing such shit and actually started trying to climb/train harder.. when i started to climb harder.. strange? huh?.

And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.


redlude97


Jun 23, 2011, 1:13 PM
Post #24 of 75 (10870 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 990

Re: [ceebo] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ceebo wrote:
kaizen wrote:
ceebo wrote:
flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

Story time Laugh

This reminds me of some things Dave mcleod was talking about. Allot of climbers spent/spend or are going to spend years doing the same shit ''thinking'' it was or will help them. Such narrow minded people appear not to like thinking (and that is referring to avg poster on rc.com) outside the box.. or doing things that the ''pro's'' did not cover or validate in the SCC. The SCC is a beginner book, don't care who is offended by that.. read it sure.. but fuck sake use it then move on to higher things.

Basically, your quick improvement (FROM HARD WORK) shows most of the people here to be wrong.. and that in truth.. they are poor climbers. They don't like that, maybe to the point of denial.

Personally i think this type of person want to get good at climbing but they don't have the determination to put in the ''real'' hard work. They think that technique is key.. and that sweating blood from hard physical work outs does not play any part in that equation.

I realised a little while back that i was such a person.. convinced that the likes of endurance/technique/ 4x4 drills would make me a better climber. Yes they helped.. but i can say with certainty i wasted at least 8 month doing too much of it. Instead of burying my head in the sand i admitted i was doing things wrong. So i used this forum and other sources to try and understand how ''real'' climbers (those who are actually climbing respectable grades) got good.. how they trained etc etc. Yes.. i said it.. im a grade chaser.

I posted some of my questions and thoughts/theory's on here but always got flamed by morons climbing mediocre grades and low motivation. I asked many things about weighted training, forms of cross training and so on.. all with the same answer ''just go climb'' - ''read the SCC'' (even after stating on many occasions i have) to the reply of ''read it again''.

I read a few blog's about campusing and so on. I started doing some here and their. Maybe a month or 2 later you came along with your posts of improvement and gave first hand views.. instead of quoting shit from the scc or quotes of a quote from the scc as so many do here.

I don't care if what i say makes it look like im licking your arse. Because what you have posted has helped me HUGELY in motivation, clarification and also validation. Reading a blog is one thing, but being able to talk to a person (like you) is a complete other story. Who the fk should i listen too?.. i guy telling me to read the scc and is climbing 5.11?.. or a guy who is working fking hard.. and climbing v12 or what not. Yeah.. its a no brainer.

What im trying to say is.. in the nicest way possible, rc.com has sections.. such as beginners, gear heads and so so. I thought that ''technique and training'' would be for those who wish to get really good AND STRONG in climbing. What i found it to be.. for 99% of the time is complete novice OR avg climbers with their heads up their jacksy.. who will never amount to much other than mediocre climbing of .12 and below.


I sense some flame on this one.

With all due respect, didn't you just post how the hardest route you've sent was in the 7b (5.12b) range?

I'm also not sure why you insist that you can't get stronger while training technique. I sure as hell feel worn out after a gym session of "technique training" on steep walls.

Strength gains will help. But the whole argument isn't that strength training is bad, it's about using your training time efficiently. One makes you stronger, the other can make you stronger and efficient. You'll need both to reach maximum potential, and holes in ones climbing will be different for everyone.

Wolfgang was crushing 8c before the campus board was invented Tongue

Slightly harder, but not the point. The point is that many people will be or are stuck at the same level. That will not happen for me.. as i ''try'' to keep a open mind for ideas or training concepts that are at least new to me.

Their is a difference between acquiring a certain level of mastery over basic techniques... and endlessly drilling them. Anybody who has put in the effort and time can easily reach an acceptable base of technique within 1-2 year. Any refinement of the above can be acquired as and when a particular route demands it. It was exactly when i stopped wasting my time doing such shit and actually started trying to climb/train harder.. when i started to climb harder.. strange? huh?.

And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.
You seem to be conflating the idea about training harder and training differently. Most climbers never climb at an elite level because they don't have the time or willpower to train are a high level consistently to get big gains. This is irrespective of which drills they do. There are dozens of climbers in the gym who do halfass hangboard and campus training and can't climb very hard routes, and there are dozens of climbers who never touch them that climb harder. Getting better at climbing isn't totally about which training regimen you use, but more about the level of effort and commitment you are willing to put in, this probably contributed more to your gains than any change in training you implemented, and your posts over the last few months make this clear. You keep bringing up single cases where campusing or hangboarding have helped certain climbers, but for every elite climber that uses these, there is another who doesn't and is arguably just as strong. Based on your conclusion no one can get strong if all they do is just climb, yet this clearly isn't the case.


ceebo


Jun 23, 2011, 2:11 PM
Post #25 of 75 (10842 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 862

Re: [redlude97] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

redlude97 wrote:
ceebo wrote:
kaizen wrote:
ceebo wrote:
flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

Story time Laugh

This reminds me of some things Dave mcleod was talking about. Allot of climbers spent/spend or are going to spend years doing the same shit ''thinking'' it was or will help them. Such narrow minded people appear not to like thinking (and that is referring to avg poster on rc.com) outside the box.. or doing things that the ''pro's'' did not cover or validate in the SCC. The SCC is a beginner book, don't care who is offended by that.. read it sure.. but fuck sake use it then move on to higher things.

Basically, your quick improvement (FROM HARD WORK) shows most of the people here to be wrong.. and that in truth.. they are poor climbers. They don't like that, maybe to the point of denial.

Personally i think this type of person want to get good at climbing but they don't have the determination to put in the ''real'' hard work. They think that technique is key.. and that sweating blood from hard physical work outs does not play any part in that equation.

I realised a little while back that i was such a person.. convinced that the likes of endurance/technique/ 4x4 drills would make me a better climber. Yes they helped.. but i can say with certainty i wasted at least 8 month doing too much of it. Instead of burying my head in the sand i admitted i was doing things wrong. So i used this forum and other sources to try and understand how ''real'' climbers (those who are actually climbing respectable grades) got good.. how they trained etc etc. Yes.. i said it.. im a grade chaser.

I posted some of my questions and thoughts/theory's on here but always got flamed by morons climbing mediocre grades and low motivation. I asked many things about weighted training, forms of cross training and so on.. all with the same answer ''just go climb'' - ''read the SCC'' (even after stating on many occasions i have) to the reply of ''read it again''.

I read a few blog's about campusing and so on. I started doing some here and their. Maybe a month or 2 later you came along with your posts of improvement and gave first hand views.. instead of quoting shit from the scc or quotes of a quote from the scc as so many do here.

I don't care if what i say makes it look like im licking your arse. Because what you have posted has helped me HUGELY in motivation, clarification and also validation. Reading a blog is one thing, but being able to talk to a person (like you) is a complete other story. Who the fk should i listen too?.. i guy telling me to read the scc and is climbing 5.11?.. or a guy who is working fking hard.. and climbing v12 or what not. Yeah.. its a no brainer.

What im trying to say is.. in the nicest way possible, rc.com has sections.. such as beginners, gear heads and so so. I thought that ''technique and training'' would be for those who wish to get really good AND STRONG in climbing. What i found it to be.. for 99% of the time is complete novice OR avg climbers with their heads up their jacksy.. who will never amount to much other than mediocre climbing of .12 and below.


I sense some flame on this one.

With all due respect, didn't you just post how the hardest route you've sent was in the 7b (5.12b) range?

I'm also not sure why you insist that you can't get stronger while training technique. I sure as hell feel worn out after a gym session of "technique training" on steep walls.

Strength gains will help. But the whole argument isn't that strength training is bad, it's about using your training time efficiently. One makes you stronger, the other can make you stronger and efficient. You'll need both to reach maximum potential, and holes in ones climbing will be different for everyone.

Wolfgang was crushing 8c before the campus board was invented Tongue

Slightly harder, but not the point. The point is that many people will be or are stuck at the same level. That will not happen for me.. as i ''try'' to keep a open mind for ideas or training concepts that are at least new to me.

Their is a difference between acquiring a certain level of mastery over basic techniques... and endlessly drilling them. Anybody who has put in the effort and time can easily reach an acceptable base of technique within 1-2 year. Any refinement of the above can be acquired as and when a particular route demands it. It was exactly when i stopped wasting my time doing such shit and actually started trying to climb/train harder.. when i started to climb harder.. strange? huh?.

And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.
You seem to be conflating the idea about training harder and training differently. Most climbers never climb at an elite level because they don't have the time or willpower to train are a high level consistently to get big gains. This is irrespective of which drills they do. There are dozens of climbers in the gym who do halfass hangboard and campus training and can't climb very hard routes, and there are dozens of climbers who never touch them that climb harder. Getting better at climbing isn't totally about which training regimen you use, but more about the level of effort and commitment you are willing to put in, this probably contributed more to your gains than any change in training you implemented, and your posts over the last few months make this clear. You keep bringing up single cases where campusing or hangboarding have helped certain climbers, but for every elite climber that uses these, there is another who doesn't and is arguably just as strong. Based on your conclusion no one can get strong if all they do is just climb, yet this clearly isn't the case.

I am not saying that at all. If a person had a really nice range of out door routes in their area to get strong on then sure. I can not speak for the rest of you.. but i certainly do not have that, i really wish i did. Travel is an option, but with family's to support how many of you are selfish enough to take off for weeks at a time to put in the mileage. Imo it has to be weeks/months in order to make gains on such routes or it is just not worth while from a progression stance.

It is just not possible to go climb a thousand 8a's.. then expect to be able to climb a 8c. So if their is no (or not enough) grades in-between what can you do?.. just climb imo is no longer enough. I guess that would be where the likes of weighted climbing spacific training comes in to ''bridge'' the gap a little (notice word little).

Indoor climbing is ofc a good option to get stronger.. but they are commercial and want profit. Setting hard routes when 98% of customers don't climb above 6c is understandably (but annoyingly) a fail business plan. So then you wind up with a hand full of good climbers fighting over the few worthwhile routes available. It amounts to a complete waste of money and time.. = why i built my own wall and campus board.

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : Technique & Training

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?
$77.36 (10% off)
$137.70 (10% off)
$215.06 (10% off)
$8.96 (10% off)



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook