Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Trad Climbing:
Help Convert Me!
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Trad Climbing

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All


ecade


Jun 24, 2011, 12:20 PM
Post #1 of 122 (6770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 23, 2011
Posts: 132

Help Convert Me!
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Happy Friday,

Don't you wish this day would end and you could be on the crag?

You see, whether you climb sport or trad, we can all agree that we'd rather be on the rock than office.

So I'm a sport climber, my best lead was an 11b, 1 take. And now, I think i'm ready to learn Trad.

I'm not looking to fully convert, yet.

What do people recommend for techinques and drills to learn placement and become comfortable on it?
to make a long story short: I was doing my first trad route, a 5.6 last saturday, I placed exact gear in exact spots as instructed, but it just seemed non-sensical, I'm climbing a route that I know I shouldn't fall on, on protection that I don't feel comfortable falling on, with the hopes that I will become comfortable to fall on it by not falling on it? Is it just me or do the means not logical result in the desired ends of being comfortable falling on Trad.

So what do people recommend as SAFE, ways for a Sport climber to learn Trad?

I was thinking of trying a sport route, clipping a bolt, placing a piece of pro a few feet above the bolt, climbing above trad pro and then taking falls and learning and getting comfortable like that.

I have friends who have the gear, knowledge, and are generous with their time to teach me, but I am not fully comfortable with they methods they have used.

Suggestions, personal experience etc... are very welcome.

I'd offer to teach you sport climbing, but lets face it, I'm sure y'all know how to layback on a crack :)

Cheers and Thank you


saymurphy


Jun 24, 2011, 12:50 PM
Post #2 of 122 (6747 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 5, 2008
Posts: 18

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

If you don't trust your mentor, find a new one. Failing that, top-rope aid (with partner or solo).


michael1245


Jun 24, 2011, 1:01 PM
Post #3 of 122 (6738 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 23, 2010
Posts: 247

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

1. trad traverse

2. G-Rated Routes

3. whenever possible, place two pieces of pro


erisspirit


Jun 24, 2011, 1:06 PM
Post #4 of 122 (6731 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 3744

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm still learning, so all I can really comment on is what is working for me. (I was already leading sport before trad)

I started by following a lot (and reading the John Long anchors book). Before cleaning each piece I would inspect it, and see what my experienced partner was doing. If I had any questions I asked. Next my partner helped me with my own placements on the ground, and did some anchor practice. Then I started leading on really simple easy to protect climbing. My partner would follow then give me a critique on each placement. I'm slowly working my way to harder routes, as well as climbing more on my own without an experienced partner blessing every placement Tongue...

As for trusting the gear, the more I place gear the more I trust it, and myself. I took my first lead fall on gear by a slip of the foot. I don't really feel like you need to be taking big falls on your gear to learn the gear.

Hopefully people with more experience with trad and teaching trad might be able to help more.


kennoyce


Jun 24, 2011, 1:46 PM
Post #5 of 122 (6697 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 1286

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

ecade wrote:
Happy Friday,

Don't you wish this day would end and you could be on the crag?

You see, whether you climb sport or trad, we can all agree that we'd rather be on the rock than office.

So I'm a sport climber, my best lead was an 11b, 1 take. And now, I think i'm ready to learn Trad.

I'm not looking to fully convert, yet.

What do people recommend for techinques and drills to learn placement and become comfortable on it?
to make a long story short: I was doing my first trad route, a 5.6 last saturday, I placed exact gear in exact spots as instructed, but it just seemed non-sensical, I'm climbing a route that I know I shouldn't fall on, on protection that I don't feel comfortable falling on, with the hopes that I will become comfortable to fall on it by not falling on it? Is it just me or do the means not logical result in the desired ends of being comfortable falling on Trad.

So what do people recommend as SAFE, ways for a Sport climber to learn Trad?

I was thinking of trying a sport route, clipping a bolt, placing a piece of pro a few feet above the bolt, climbing above trad pro and then taking falls and learning and getting comfortable like that.

I have friends who have the gear, knowledge, and are generous with their time to teach me, but I am not fully comfortable with they methods they have used.

Suggestions, personal experience etc... are very welcome.

I'd offer to teach you sport climbing, but lets face it, I'm sure y'all know how to layback on a crack :)

Cheers and Thank you


I'd say that the Bosch bulldog is a good drill for converting trad routes to sport routes so that you feel more comfortable falling.

Hopefully thats the answer you were looking for since I just kind of glazed over your question;)


swoopee


Jun 24, 2011, 4:38 PM
Post #6 of 122 (6633 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 560

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Ya gotta crawl before you can fly. Learn to place gear on easy terrain with someone you trust. When you feel comfortable doing that then start moving up the grades. If you know that your placements are good you will trust them when the time comes.


blueeyedclimber


Jun 24, 2011, 6:56 PM
Post #7 of 122 (6598 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4598

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

ecade wrote:
What do people recommend for techinques and drills to learn placement and become comfortable on it?
to make a long story short: I was doing my first trad route, a 5.6 last saturday, I placed exact gear in exact spots as instructed, but it just seemed non-sensical, I'm climbing a route that I know I shouldn't fall on, on protection that I don't feel comfortable falling on, with the hopes that I will become comfortable to fall on it by not falling on it? Is it just me or do the means not logical result in the desired ends of being comfortable falling on Trad.

Climbing on gear has a MUCH longer learning process than sport does. Climbing easy routes and placing a lot of gear is part of that process. This is the one problem I see with today's progression of going from sport to trad. People get strong with sport climbing real quick and then want to transfer that to climbing on gear. I mean, who wants to dial it back 3 or 4 grades. It can be very frustrating.

The problem is, is that there is a lot of learning that goes on with those easier routes. Gear placement, rope management, building anchors, direction of pull, multidirectional pieces, zippering, running it out, sewing it up, belaying your second, and on and on.

In reply to:
So what do people recommend as SAFE, ways for a Sport climber to learn Trad?

Place a lot of gear, on the ground and on easier routes. Read. A LOT. Get advice from as many different experienced climbers as possible.
In reply to:
I was thinking of trying a sport route, clipping a bolt, placing a piece of pro a few feet above the bolt, climbing above trad pro and then taking falls and learning and getting comfortable like that.

Well, where I'm from there are not very many sport routes that will take gear. But, if there is where you are, then sure.

In reply to:
I have friends who have the gear, knowledge, and are generous with their time to teach me, but I am not fully comfortable with they methods they have used.

For example? Why are you not comfortable with them? You just said they have the knowledge.

In reply to:
Suggestions, personal experience etc... are very welcome.

Back when I was learning trad, I was also making the jump from sport and was starting to climb harder. I didn't take as much time learning gear as I should have. I had no business being on something I could have fallen on. Well, I did and pulled two pieces and hit the ground. I was lucky and only got a badly sprained ankle. I learned more that day than any other day out climbing and i'm a better climber today because of it, but it could have been much worse. Like I said, I was lucky.


Good luck!

Josh


brian_h


Jun 24, 2011, 9:28 PM
Post #8 of 122 (6543 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 23, 2010
Posts: 59

Re: [blueeyedclimber] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Consider hiring a professional guide or attending a climbing course. I'm a new trad leader and the first course I took last year focused on gear placements, physics behind falls, building anchors and basic equipment safety type stuff. It was the precursor course to single pitch lead, but we did talk our guide into doing some mock leads. I tied into two ropes, one on a toprope belay and one lead belay. I thought it was a good way to get acclimated to placing gear. Also, I carried a sling on my tie-in loops to clip each piece and put body weight on it to gain confidence in my placements.

I really found a renewed trust in gear when I took a 45' fall last month. I was caught by a .5 BD cam on two lobes. Fairly dumb of me to end up in that situation, but given the outcome I was also lucky to be able to walk away and learn a valuable lesson in placing gear more frequently.

Hope that helps.


(This post was edited by brian_h on Jun 24, 2011, 9:35 PM)


TarHeelEMT


Jun 24, 2011, 10:44 PM
Post #9 of 122 (6524 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 20, 2009
Posts: 724

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Aid climbing (even on top rope) is a great way to learn to trust your gear. Climb on top rope and heartily bounce test everything.


rtwilli4


Jun 25, 2011, 2:48 AM
Post #10 of 122 (6504 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 1867

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Follow as many pitches as you can. If you're friends like to climb on gear then it should be easy for you to follow and clean their gear. You'll learn a lot about how things work by doing this.

But when leading, you do have to start on easy terrain so that you'll think more about your gear than you do about the climbing. Just place as much gear as you can. If you know that the anchor is bolted or a tree or chockstone or something, you should place every piece of gear you have on the way up.

Being uncomfortable about the gear you place is just part of the learning process. If you trusted the gear right away there would be something wrong with you (just like there is something wrong with most sport climbers that have blind faith in bolts). The more gear you place, the more confident you will get in your ability to protect yourself and the harder you will climb. Then one day, you will fall, and the gear will work, and you'll be fine.

I don't think placing gear and falling on purpose is a good idea. Especially when you are still learning. What if it comes out? Even if the bolt keeps you from getting hurt, your confidence will be shot and you will have taken a step backwards.

I also don't think it's a good idea to have someone telling you when and where to place gear. Everyone sees protection differently, and being instructed from the ground can even be dangerous since the person can't see what you are doing.

But yea, climbing easy routes that you shouldn't fall off of, placing gear that you wouldn't want to fall on, will help you learn how to trad climb. Just keep doing it.


sbaclimber


Jun 25, 2011, 4:38 AM
Post #11 of 122 (6489 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 3061

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ecade wrote:
I'm climbing a route that I know I shouldn't fall on, on protection that I don't feel comfortable falling on, with the hopes that I will become comfortable to fall on it by not falling on it?
If it is any consolation, I have been climbing over 15 years and am still not comfortable falling, regardless of whether on gear or bolts. Most of the time, it has little to do with the quality of the pro, it is just an irrational feeling that I have not trained myself enough fully have under control. Based on a fair amount of experience, I can generally gauge whether a placement is good or not...and try even harder not to fall accordingly.

In addition to the good advice posted by others above (practice, inspection by experienced climbers, etc), you might also try bounce-testing placements and aid-climbing, both close to the ground and not above pointy rocks or sticks. Tongue
I have had some surprises doing this, which have quickly put me back on the ground and made me reevaluate what a "good" placement is (especially with C3s in hard/smooth rock).


(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Jun 25, 2011, 4:41 AM)


Partner j_ung


Jun 25, 2011, 5:09 AM
Post #12 of 122 (6479 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18687

Re: [blueeyedclimber] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

blueeyedclimber wrote:
ecade wrote:
What do people recommend for techinques and drills to learn placement and become comfortable on it?
to make a long story short: I was doing my first trad route, a 5.6 last saturday, I placed exact gear in exact spots as instructed, but it just seemed non-sensical, I'm climbing a route that I know I shouldn't fall on, on protection that I don't feel comfortable falling on, with the hopes that I will become comfortable to fall on it by not falling on it? Is it just me or do the means not logical result in the desired ends of being comfortable falling on Trad.

Climbing on gear has a MUCH longer learning process than sport does. Climbing easy routes and placing a lot of gear is part of that process. This is the one problem I see with today's progression of going from sport to trad. People get strong with sport climbing real quick and then want to transfer that to climbing on gear. I mean, who wants to dial it back 3 or 4 grades. It can be very frustrating.

The problem is, is that there is a lot of learning that goes on with those easier routes. Gear placement, rope management, building anchors, direction of pull, multidirectional pieces, zippering, running it out, sewing it up, belaying your second, and on and on.

In reply to:
So what do people recommend as SAFE, ways for a Sport climber to learn Trad?

Place a lot of gear, on the ground and on easier routes. Read. A LOT. Get advice from as many different experienced climbers as possible.
In reply to:
I was thinking of trying a sport route, clipping a bolt, placing a piece of pro a few feet above the bolt, climbing above trad pro and then taking falls and learning and getting comfortable like that.

Well, where I'm from there are not very many sport routes that will take gear. But, if there is where you are, then sure.

In reply to:
I have friends who have the gear, knowledge, and are generous with their time to teach me, but I am not fully comfortable with they methods they have used.

For example? Why are you not comfortable with them? You just said they have the knowledge.

In reply to:
Suggestions, personal experience etc... are very welcome.

Back when I was learning trad, I was also making the jump from sport and was starting to climb harder. I didn't take as much time learning gear as I should have. I had no business being on something I could have fallen on. Well, I did and pulled two pieces and hit the ground. I was lucky and only got a badly sprained ankle. I learned more that day than any other day out climbing and i'm a better climber today because of it, but it could have been much worse. Like I said, I was lucky.


Good luck!

Josh

This is an excellent post. A lot of people want to transition from sport to trad in a few days, but that's a ridiculous proposition. Those people are building a house of cards upon a foundation that is woefully lacking in rockcraft and basic mountaineering skills. Granted, single pitch trad doesn't require as much of such things as do longer, more committing routes, but the analogy holds, IMO.

This story of what happened on a 5.7 to a guy who has climbed 5.13 should be required reading for badass sport climbers who want to learn to plug gear.


jeepnphreak


Jun 25, 2011, 10:22 AM
Post #13 of 122 (6415 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 1259

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Watch this its is about Pierces pass that someone used the wrong bolts on very soft rock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQt4AbQmJjE

At least when Trad climbing you placed the gear and know if its good or not. You never what monkey place a set of bolts. Blind faith in sport climbers is amazing


healyje


Jun 25, 2011, 12:26 PM
Post #14 of 122 (6375 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4196

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The name of the game in learning trad climbing is and always will be finding and seconding experienced leaders - everything else is a less desirable way to learn trad. You don't say where you're from, but I'd say really do some detective work to try and find out who's doing trad in your area and do whatever's necessary to get in as many pitches with them as possible.

Barring that, then walking the base with a couple of slings placing and weighting pro is a good way to learn about placing and removing gear. As mentioned by others here, leading way easy routes placing lots of pro is the way to go if you can't find experienced trad leaders to second. Double up on the pro on anything that's a potential ground fall or makes you nervous.

Skip any form of top rope 'leading' - it's counterproductive. Better to learn to aid climb if it comes down to that.

In general when placing gear, the name of the game is geometry, geometry, geometry - especially with passive gear (nuts and hexs). Really get in there and study a potential placement down to the millimeter level for shape, constrictions, bumps, texture, debris, etc. - don't just slap something in.

The ideal for a nut placement is one where the geometry is doing all the work and needs either no 'setting' or a breathe of one, holds a fall, and still comes out easy. Remember it's not just about putting them in, they have to be reasonable to clean or it will be a nightmare for your second and slow going.

And it doesn't matter how long someone's been climbing, or how old they are, if they slam a cam where there's a solid nut placement then they're a noob. In general, always prefer passive placements (nuts) when they present themselves. Don't become someone who simply slamming cams as you'll not develop the skills necessary for when things get dicey and technical on the protection front.

Last, don't sport climb on gear (sprad climbing) - don't hang or rest on your gear - it isn't trad climbing and climbing on gear isn't the sole definition of 'trad climbing'. If anything, that by itself would be a 'souless' definition of trad climbing. The essence of trad climbing isn't gear vs. bolts, but rather not resting on the rope vs hanging (dogging) your way up routes.

In the beginning climb easier routes until you are confident in your pro and understand it what it's about and then push up the level of difficulty as you become more confident in your placements. Once you are actually confident and probably have taken a fall or two along the way then go for it. At that point when you fall, lower either back to the belay or to the last solid rest and give it another go - don't dog up the route - it isn't trad climbing and it will definitely bite you in the ass with a failed placement sooner or later.

Again, try to find experienced leaders to follow - it's the best way to learn.


(This post was edited by healyje on Jun 25, 2011, 12:27 PM)


ianwatson


Jun 27, 2011, 10:46 AM
Post #15 of 122 (6276 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 31, 2010
Posts: 66

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

follow as many people as you can, practice placing gear on the ground. climb very easy routes till you are 100% your gear is good. get a few anchor books and fredom of the hills and understand what you are doing. you dont want to push your climbing limit and placing gear at the same time, just take it easy and dont rush to lead harder untill your gear is bomber.


ps. Yer gonna die!!!


oldgray


Jun 27, 2011, 1:57 PM
Post #16 of 122 (6230 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 12, 2009
Posts: 1

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

33 years traditional climbing; two leader falls; one at Seneca W Va and one at Gunks NY.
Now living/climbing in western NC. Never used a mechanical piece of protection.
Climbing is NO FUN if you are not worried about falling.
Who really knows how to learn ? You could get top roped while leading then have placements critiqued by an "expert" but who knows what makes a real expert.
Best wishes; enjoy the adventure !
Gray Climber


healyje


Jun 27, 2011, 2:01 PM
Post #17 of 122 (6222 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4196

Re: [oldgray] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

oldgray wrote:
33 years traditional climbing; two leader falls; one at Seneca W Va and one at Gunks NY.
Now living/climbing in western NC. Never used a mechanical piece of protection.
Climbing is NO FUN if you are not worried about falling.
Who really knows how to learn ? You could get top roped while leading then have placements critiqued by an "expert" but who knows what makes a real expert.
Best wishes; enjoy the adventure !
Gray Climber

Hmmm, 37 years here and still take solid falls a good half dozen times a year. To each his own and I do know a lot of old "leader must not fall" folks - just never been one of them myself.

That said, when you're learning isn't the time to go winging around on gear.

Also, if you have an 'expert' on the scene who can critique your gear then I'd say the better use their time is to have them lead something and you second it.


Partner cracklover


Jun 27, 2011, 3:44 PM
Post #18 of 122 (6184 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 9935

Re: [j_ung] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

j_ung wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
ecade wrote:
What do people recommend for techinques and drills to learn placement and become comfortable on it?
to make a long story short: I was doing my first trad route, a 5.6 last saturday, I placed exact gear in exact spots as instructed, but it just seemed non-sensical, I'm climbing a route that I know I shouldn't fall on, on protection that I don't feel comfortable falling on, with the hopes that I will become comfortable to fall on it by not falling on it? Is it just me or do the means not logical result in the desired ends of being comfortable falling on Trad.

Climbing on gear has a MUCH longer learning process than sport does. Climbing easy routes and placing a lot of gear is part of that process. This is the one problem I see with today's progression of going from sport to trad. People get strong with sport climbing real quick and then want to transfer that to climbing on gear. I mean, who wants to dial it back 3 or 4 grades. It can be very frustrating.

The problem is, is that there is a lot of learning that goes on with those easier routes. Gear placement, rope management, building anchors, direction of pull, multidirectional pieces, zippering, running it out, sewing it up, belaying your second, and on and on.

In reply to:
So what do people recommend as SAFE, ways for a Sport climber to learn Trad?

Place a lot of gear, on the ground and on easier routes. Read. A LOT. Get advice from as many different experienced climbers as possible.
In reply to:
I was thinking of trying a sport route, clipping a bolt, placing a piece of pro a few feet above the bolt, climbing above trad pro and then taking falls and learning and getting comfortable like that.

Well, where I'm from there are not very many sport routes that will take gear. But, if there is where you are, then sure.

In reply to:
I have friends who have the gear, knowledge, and are generous with their time to teach me, but I am not fully comfortable with they methods they have used.

For example? Why are you not comfortable with them? You just said they have the knowledge.

In reply to:
Suggestions, personal experience etc... are very welcome.

Back when I was learning trad, I was also making the jump from sport and was starting to climb harder. I didn't take as much time learning gear as I should have. I had no business being on something I could have fallen on. Well, I did and pulled two pieces and hit the ground. I was lucky and only got a badly sprained ankle. I learned more that day than any other day out climbing and i'm a better climber today because of it, but it could have been much worse. Like I said, I was lucky.


Good luck!

Josh

This is an excellent post. A lot of people want to transition from sport to trad in a few days, but that's a ridiculous proposition. Those people are building a house of cards upon a foundation that is woefully lacking in rockcraft and basic mountaineering skills. Granted, single pitch trad doesn't require as much of such things as do longer, more committing routes, but the analogy holds, IMO.

This story of what happened on a 5.7 to a guy who has climbed 5.13 should be required reading for badass sport climbers who want to learn to plug gear.

Yes, it is an excellent post. The one major thing he didn't mention, though, is attitude. You need to have a whole different mind to climb trad than to climb sport. The good trad leader thinks very much like a first ascentionist - looking up, reading the rock, picking out the most reasonable line, and plotting how to get up it safely and efficiently. The set of skills involved can take years to hone.

GO


jacques


Jun 27, 2011, 7:43 PM
Post #19 of 122 (6142 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 13, 2008
Posts: 273

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

ecade wrote:
So what do people recommend as SAFE, ways for a Sport climber to learn Trad?

Safe, means that when you fall, you are not going to injure yourself. On a 5.11, where you plug the pro in the rockł, it is safe to fall with a boltt or a cam in a crack. When you climb ten feet of 5.7, two moves of 5.8 and a run out in a 5.10... it could be dangerous to fall.

Trad is mostly to be able to see the danger and to find a way to avoid it. Example: you don`t need to be able to place a good pro, you need to be able to place a pro in a shity placement.

One curious think about the difference between trad and sport is that the beginer learn the limit of the technique in trad and the limit of his body in sport. I often saw sport climber jumping on a hold without testing it. In trad, you have to make an evaluation of where I fall if the hold broke, decide wihich technique to use and make the move. for example, you can do a barn door or a flag. With a flag, you load the hold with one hand and if the hold broke, your back fall first and will hit a rock first (results; injure vertebra). With a barn door, you will fall on your feet.

Limiting trad at the idea of placing gear is offencing. One can make a run out of 30 feet with a fall in the air and be safe in trad. What happen in a fall, from the moment you lost contact with the rock to the moment you rest on the end of the rope? it is really what it is important to learn in trad.


superchuffer


Jun 28, 2011, 4:16 AM
Post #20 of 122 (6086 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 9, 2011
Posts: 294

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

start by placing knotted ropes, hexes, and tri-cams. you will learn more than that than by using sticky rubber and those cheater cams.


sbaclimber


Jun 28, 2011, 4:38 AM
Post #21 of 122 (6072 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 3061

Re: [superchuffer] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

superchuffer wrote:
start by placing knotted ropes, hexes, and tri-cams. you will learn more than that than by using sticky rubber and those cheater cams.
In other words, climb barefoot. Cool

Any reason for recommending knotted ropes and hexes, but not nuts?


ceebo


Jun 28, 2011, 5:15 AM
Post #22 of 122 (6065 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 862

Re: [jacques] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

jacques wrote:
ecade wrote:
So what do people recommend as SAFE, ways for a Sport climber to learn Trad?

Safe, means that when you fall, you are not going to injure yourself. On a 5.11, where you plug the pro in the rockł, it is safe to fall with a boltt or a cam in a crack. When you climb ten feet of 5.7, two moves of 5.8 and a run out in a 5.10... it could be dangerous to fall.

Trad is mostly to be able to see the danger and to find a way to avoid it. Example: you don`t need to be able to place a good pro, you need to be able to place a pro in a shity placement.

One curious think about the difference between trad and sport is that the beginer learn the limit of the technique in trad and the limit of his body in sport. I often saw sport climber jumping on a hold without testing it. In trad, you have to make an evaluation of where I fall if the hold broke, decide wihich technique to use and make the move. for example, you can do a barn door or a flag. With a flag, you load the hold with one hand and if the hold broke, your back fall first and will hit a rock first (results; injure vertebra). With a barn door, you will fall on your feet.

Limiting trad at the idea of placing gear is offencing. One can make a run out of 30 feet with a fall in the air and be safe in trad. What happen in a fall, from the moment you lost contact with the rock to the moment you rest on the end of the rope? it is really what it is important to learn in trad.

Barndoor's take place when your body weight is past its base support (example, feet left, torso right, remove left supporting hand). If the hold brakes during a barn door how can you possibly expect to gain control of your fall during a ''move'' that had no control in the first place?.

Also, if you are past your base support, any ''push'' from the foot in contact will only result in generating momentum into the direction you were already going to go... and that is onto your back/side.


jacques


Jun 28, 2011, 9:50 AM
Post #23 of 122 (6024 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 13, 2008
Posts: 273

Re: [ceebo] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ceebo wrote:
[
Barndoor's take place when your body weight is past its base support (example, feet left, torso right, remove left supporting hand). If the hold brakes during a barn door how can you possibly expect to gain control of your fall during a ''move'' that had no control in the first place?.

if you do a barn door and the hold that you reach broke, you can fall on the feet in the same side, if it is the holding hand which broke, you fall on the opposite feet and if it is the foothold, you fall on both feet. after that analysis, you can place the pro in the direction of the fall.

A barn door have a control, bo we need more strenght to make the move. meaning a lost of energy. You have to decide between safety and energy. With a bolt, the analysis is not necessary and the flag is better.


superchuffer


Jun 28, 2011, 11:21 AM
Post #24 of 122 (6002 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 9, 2011
Posts: 294

Re: [sbaclimber] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Any reason for recommending knotted ropes and hexes, but not nuts?

good point. he'll definitely need some big nuts.


superchuffer


Jun 28, 2011, 11:23 AM
Post #25 of 122 (6000 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 9, 2011
Posts: 294

Re: [ecade] Help Convert Me! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

best way to train for trad action is to roll with all the gear you own on you in the gym. training weight from all the jinglies. make sure you wear some slings over your shoulder too.

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Trad Climbing

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook