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frost240z


Jun 27, 2011, 7:45 AM
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Knot Question
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Will someone read this blog and let me know if this knot would work?

http://multiplybyzero.blogspot.com/...cking-slip-knot.html


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Jun 27, 2011, 7:50 AM
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Re: [frost240z] Knot Question [In reply to]
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No. I will not read your blog.


frost240z


Jun 27, 2011, 7:53 AM
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Re: [epoch] Knot Question [In reply to]
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Well that's not very helpful. Do I need to get it posted here or are you just not wanting to help? I'm new to this so how about point me in a good direction instead of just saying "no".


sbaclimber


Jun 27, 2011, 8:11 AM
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Re: [frost240z] Knot Question [In reply to]
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frost240z wrote:
...to prevent slipping up and down the tree as tension changed and not keep tightening around the tree as tension increased.
So......why didn't you just tie a bowline?

I can't see any reason why your knot wouldn't "work", but it looks like it might be a a bit of a PITA to untie after loading.

.....and I wouldn't be too sure of this without some serious testing:
frost240z wrote:
The knot doesn't cause any sharp angles so I would think the strength of the cord or webbing is not compromised.


frost240z


Jun 27, 2011, 8:24 AM
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Re: [sbaclimber] Knot Question [In reply to]
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Thanks sbaclimber. The reason I picked this knot over the bowline was the ability to slide it tight against the tree. The bowline is a great knot but I'm worried about not being able to tie it and keep it tight enough around the tree. It would be good for not getting tighter around the tree when weighted though.

In the very limited testing I have done I have had any trouble untying. I'll be out climbing this week and will weighted it real good and see.

Thanks again for your input. I will defiantly play around with the bowline a little more.


Rudmin


Jun 27, 2011, 8:33 AM
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Re: [frost240z] Knot Question [In reply to]
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frost240z wrote:
Will someone read this blog and let me know if this knot would work?

http://multiplybyzero.blogspot.com/...cking-slip-knot.html

This is why people don't like getting redirected to random blogs:




sungam


Jun 27, 2011, 8:42 AM
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Re: [frost240z] Knot Question [In reply to]
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frost240z wrote:
Thanks sbaclimber. The reason I picked this knot over the bowline was the ability to slide it tight against the tree. The bowline is a great knot but I'm worried about not being able to tie it and keep it tight enough around the tree. It would be good for not getting tighter around the tree when weighted though.

In the very limited testing I have done I have had any trouble untying. I'll be out climbing this week and will weighted it real good and see.

Thanks again for your input. I will defiantly play around with the bowline a little more.
I didn't read your blog and I'm not going to, but loading on the tree's entire circumference is much worse for the tree then loading only a portion of it. Not only that but as your knot cinches down on the tree it will saw on it slightly. All in all it seems like your knot is considerably worse for the tree then the bowline.

After seeing the hilarious picture of a child I clicked on your blog. I don't like you at this point. I think that it is entirey possible that you over think things, which generally isn't a problem but in your case it seems that the thinking part isn't being done particularly well.


frost240z


Jun 27, 2011, 8:44 AM
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Re: [Rudmin] Knot Question [In reply to]
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Rudmin, I didn't even think about that. I'm sorry if that picture offended you. I will see if I can get it changed. Would a climbing picture be OK or do you think just no picture would be best?


edge


Jun 27, 2011, 8:47 AM
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Re: [frost240z] Knot Question [In reply to]
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frost240z wrote:
Rudmin, I didn't even think about that. I'm sorry if that picture offended you. I will see if I can get it changed. Would a climbing picture be OK or do you think just no picture would be best?

Not everyone browsing at work appreciates music popping up either.


sungam


Jun 27, 2011, 9:01 AM
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Re: [edge] Knot Question [In reply to]
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edge wrote:
frost240z wrote:
Rudmin, I didn't even think about that. I'm sorry if that picture offended you. I will see if I can get it changed. Would a climbing picture be OK or do you think just no picture would be best?

Not everyone browsing at work appreciates music popping up either.
Music started to play? That website is a fucking cringe-fest!

Dude, chill your website out!


frost240z


Jun 27, 2011, 9:02 AM
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Re: [edge] Knot Question [In reply to]
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sungam, I appreciate the effort but your first comment without reading about the knot is useless and just holds no merit. With you elaborating on your second comment there is much to say except everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

edge, thanks for the input. It is blocked at my work so I didn't even realize it was on there. I'll take care of that too. Any thoughts on the knot though?


sungam


Jun 27, 2011, 9:12 AM
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Re: [frost240z] Knot Question [In reply to]
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Why exactly are you not wanting the knot around the base of the tree?


ajcarrico


Jun 27, 2011, 10:20 AM
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Re: [frost240z] Knot Question [In reply to]
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There are three better ways to tie a rope to a tree:

Single bowline around tree. (you have the end of the rope)

Double bowline around tree. (such as one end of the rope is tied to your harness)

no knot. wrap the end of the rope multiple times around the tree. finish it off with two half hitches or a bowline. this method will basically do no damage to the tree and is the absolute strongest possible.

All these methods are easier to tie, easier to untie, easier to check if done correctly, and are proven to work by many years of use


frost240z


Jun 27, 2011, 10:55 AM
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Re: [ajcarrico] Knot Question [In reply to]
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sungam, Thank you for your question. I think you are referring to why I'm not just using a Girth Hitch? The reason I don't want the knot tightening around the tree as weight increases is because it digs into the tree and damages it. If this went on for a few years the trees would eventually die from it. There have already been some trees that have come down because of this. This locking slip knot would be able to be pushed snug but then locked off so that it doesn't tighten any more around the tree.

ajcarrio, Thank your for your input. The reason the bowline knots and the no knot were not working was because when unweighted they allowed movement up and down the tree. I agree with you that the no knot three wraps around the tree are very strong and does a great job a distributing the weight around the three. If you look at the last picture in the post I used three wraps then the locking slip knot to keep the wraps from falling when no weight is being applied. The knot was developed to be used as a top rope ground belay anchor around a tree. The only time there really is weight on it is when there is a fall. When that fall happens I don't want the anchor moving up the tree or digging into the bark. Thanks again for your suggestions they are very good knots and hold many uses.


I would really like to know if someone has tied the knot and played around with how it works. Maybe in a few days someone will post with some testing.


ajcarrico


Jun 27, 2011, 11:05 AM
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Re: [frost240z] Knot Question [In reply to]
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frost240z wrote:
The knot was developed to be used as a top rope ground belay anchor around a tree. The only time there really is weight on it is when there is a fall. When that fall happens I don't want the anchor moving up the tree or digging into the bark.

I got it now.
You are anchoring to an upside down tree.


frost240z


Jun 27, 2011, 11:13 AM
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Re: [ajcarrico] Knot Question [In reply to]
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ajcarrico, I'll assume that your comment was a sarcastic way of expression your lack of understanding so I will try and clarify. While belaying from the ground the bottom of a tree is often used has a belay anchor. Webbing or cord is tied to the tree and then clipped into the belay device and belayer. When a climber falls it pulls the belayer up pulling your anchor up the tree if it is not tight around the tree. This is normally the only time the anchor is weighted and so the way the webbing or cord is tied to the tree needs to keep it tight enough to prevent is from slipping. It is also important that the anchor doesn't increase in tightness as it becomes weighted to prevent digging into the three. This is why the three wraps from the no know are also used.

I hope this clears things up a little for you ajcarrico. Please feel free to ask additional questions if there is still some confusion.


ajcarrico


Jun 27, 2011, 11:27 AM
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Re: [frost240z] Knot Question [In reply to]
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Yes I misunderstood what you were saying.
I guess that has to do with the idea that I could not imagine someone overthinking something like this so badly.
If your tree is so slippery that you felt like inventing a new knot, don't.
Do the multiple wrap thing (best) or tie a clove hitch around the tree. A constrictor knot also would work but can be difficult to untie.

The picture on the wikipedia even has your exact application:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clove_hitch


edge


Jun 27, 2011, 11:34 AM
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Re: [ajcarrico] Knot Question [In reply to]
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ajcarrico wrote:

The picture on the wikipedia even has your exact application:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clove_hitch

Except the tail on that pic is waaaay too short, and should probably have a back-up tied from the tail to the main line for climbing applications.


(This post was edited by edge on Jun 27, 2011, 11:39 AM)


frost240z


Jun 27, 2011, 12:01 PM
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Re: [edge] Knot Question [In reply to]
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edge, thank you for pointing out such an important safety measure although I don't think ajcarrico meant for the picture to be the complete set up of the anchor.

ajcarrico, thank you for bring up another great and very useful knot. I could see an anchor working if you put the clove hitch on the back side of the tree with the other ends being joined together on the other side. The only problem is like it says in the linked description that, "The clove hitch can slip when loaded." This locking slip knot slides but when tightened it is locked and won't slip when loaded. It is a nice try but falls short the same way the girth hitch does. It continues to tighten as weight increases. Thanks again for bring this knot up as I have not used it for this application and will be sure to play around with it some more.


Partner j_ung


Jun 27, 2011, 12:05 PM
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Re: [frost240z] Knot Question [In reply to]
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A square knot works in this situation as well.


frost240z


Jun 27, 2011, 12:08 PM
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j umg, thank you for jumping in on this topic. I'm afraid I'm going to need you to elaborate a bit more because I'm not seeing how the square not works in this application.


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Jun 27, 2011, 4:22 PM
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Re: [frost240z] Knot Question [In reply to]
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Sure, no problem. Tie the square knot around the tree, and then finish exactly the same way you finished your Ammon's clef.


sungam


Jun 28, 2011, 4:32 AM
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Re: [frost240z] Knot Question [In reply to]
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frost240z wrote:
sungam, Thank you for your question. I think you are referring to why I'm not just using a Girth Hitch?
No, I am asking why you don't want the rope around the bottom of the tree.

Is this for bottom or top anchors?

If you choose to answer my questions, please answer the ones I asked. Tongue


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