Happy Friday,

Don't you wish this day would end and you could be on the crag?

You see, whether you climb sport or trad, we can all agree that we'd rather be on the rock than office.

So I'm a sport climber, my best lead was an 11b, 1 take. And now, I think i'm ready to learn Trad.

I'm not looking to fully convert, yet.

What do people recommend for techinques and drills to learn placement and become comfortable on it?
to make a long story short: I was doing my first trad route, a 5.6 last saturday, I placed exact gear in exact spots as instructed, but it just seemed non-sensical, I'm climbing a route that I know I shouldn't fall on, on protection that I don't feel comfortable falling on, with the hopes that I will become comfortable to fall on it by not falling on it? Is it just me or do the means not logical result in the desired ends of being comfortable falling on Trad.

So what do people recommend as SAFE, ways for a Sport climber to learn Trad?

I was thinking of trying a sport route, clipping a bolt, placing a piece of pro a few feet above the bolt, climbing above trad pro and then taking falls and learning and getting comfortable like that.

I have friends who have the gear, knowledge, and are generous with their time to teach me, but I am not fully comfortable with they methods they have used.

Suggestions, personal experience etc... are very welcome.

I'd offer to teach you sport climbing, but lets face it, I'm sure y'all know how to layback on a crack :)

Cheers and Thank you

What do people recommend for techinques and drills to learn placement and become comfortable on it?
to make a long story short: I was doing my first trad route, a 5.6 last saturday, I placed exact gear in exact spots as instructed, but it just seemed non-sensical, I'm climbing a route that I know I shouldn't fall on, on protection that I don't feel comfortable falling on, with the hopes that I will become comfortable to fall on it by not falling on it? Is it just me or do the means not logical result in the desired ends of being comfortable falling on Trad.

So what do people recommend as SAFE, ways for a Sport climber to learn Trad?

I was thinking of trying a sport route, clipping a bolt, placing a piece of pro a few feet above the bolt, climbing above trad pro and then taking falls and learning and getting comfortable like that.

I have friends who have the gear, knowledge, and are generous with their time to teach me, but I am not fully comfortable with they methods they have used.

Suggestions, personal experience etc... are very welcome.

I'm climbing a route that I know I shouldn't fall on, on protection that I don't feel comfortable falling on, with the hopes that I will become comfortable to fall on it by not falling on it?

Climbing on gear has a MUCH longer learning process than sport does. Climbing easy routes and placing a lot of gear is part of that process. This is the one problem I see with today's progression of going from sport to trad. People get strong with sport climbing real quick and then want to transfer that to climbing on gear. I mean, who wants to dial it back 3 or 4 grades. It can be very frustrating.

The problem is, is that there is a lot of learning that goes on with those easier routes. Gear placement, rope management, building anchors, direction of pull, multidirectional pieces, zippering, running it out, sewing it up, belaying your second, and on and on.


Place a lot of gear, on the ground and on easier routes. Read. A LOT. Get advice from as many different experienced climbers as possible.

Well, where I'm from there are not very many sport routes that will take gear. But, if there is where you are, then sure.


For example? Why are you not comfortable with them? You just said they have the knowledge.


Back when I was learning trad, I was also making the jump from sport and was starting to climb harder. I didn't take as much time learning gear as I should have. I had no business being on something I could have fallen on. Well, I did and pulled two pieces and hit the ground. I was lucky and only got a badly sprained ankle. I learned more that day than any other day out climbing and i'm a better climber today because of it, but it could have been much worse. Like I said, I was lucky.


Good luck!

Josh

33 years traditional climbing; two leader falls; one at Seneca W Va and one at Gunks NY.
Now living/climbing in western NC. Never used a mechanical piece of protection.
Climbing is NO FUN if you are not worried about falling.
Who really knows how to learn ? You could get top roped while leading then have placements critiqued by an "expert" but who knows what makes a real expert.
Best wishes; enjoy the adventure !
Gray Climber

This is an excellent post. A lot of people want to transition from sport to trad in a few days, but that's a ridiculous proposition. Those people are building a house of cards upon a foundation that is woefully lacking in rockcraft and basic mountaineering skills. Granted, single pitch trad doesn't require as much of such things as do longer, more committing routes, but the analogy holds, IMO.

This story of what happened on a 5.7 to a guy who has climbed 5.13 should be required reading for badass sport climbers who want to learn to plug gear.

So what do people recommend as SAFE, ways for a Sport climber to learn Trad?

start by placing knotted ropes, hexes, and tri-cams. you will learn more than that than by using sticky rubber and those cheater cams.

Safe, means that when you fall, you are not going to injure yourself. On a 5.11, where you plug the pro in the rock¸, it is safe to fall with a boltt or a cam in a crack. When you climb ten feet of 5.7, two moves of 5.8 and a run out in a 5.10... it could be dangerous to fall.

Trad is mostly to be able to see the danger and to find a way to avoid it. Example: you don`t need to be able to place a good pro, you need to be able to place a pro in a shity placement.

One curious think about the difference between trad and sport is that the beginer learn the limit of the technique in trad and the limit of his body in sport. I often saw sport climber jumping on a hold without testing it. In trad, you have to make an evaluation of where I fall if the hold broke, decide wihich technique to use and make the move. for example, you can do a barn door or a flag. With a flag, you load the hold with one hand and if the hold broke, your back fall first and will hit a rock first (results; injure vertebra). With a barn door, you will fall on your feet.

Limiting trad at the idea of placing gear is offencing. One can make a run out of 30 feet with a fall in the air and be safe in trad. What happen in a fall, from the moment you lost contact with the rock to the moment you rest on the end of the rope? it is really what it is important to learn in trad.

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Barndoor's take place when your body weight is past its base support (example, feet left, torso right, remove left supporting hand). If the hold brakes during a barn door how can you possibly expect to gain control of your fall during a ''move'' that had no control in the first place?.

Any reason for recommending knotted ropes and hexes, but not nuts?